[MOD] Miscellaneous IZ Combat Tweaks

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HyperCube
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri, 19. Mar 10, 15:40

Post by HyperCube » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 13:16

oliverjanda wrote:Maybe the crew is not 4 star level?
Sucelus:
Captain has 5 stars leadership and 2 stars navigation

Def.Officer has 3 stars in combat and leadership

Balor:

Captain has 4 stars in Navigation and leadership

Def.Officer has 5 stars in Leadership and Combat

w.evans
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Joined: Tue, 18. Nov 14, 17:23
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Post by w.evans » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 13:30

Thank you for the detailed response.
HyperCube wrote:MOC-T_supp3_v0.02-447-0-02
Strange. With this, both ships shouldn't go anywhere close to the Sul.
HyperCube wrote:I then issued the attack command on the enemy Heavy Sul (who has a fighter squadron escorting him). Suddenly, the Balor used his turbo onto the enemy almost ramming it then just stayed there using his turrets. The sulecus did exactly the same thing without even trying to face towards the target.
This sounds like they're targeting a fighter. Can you please make sure that the ships are targeting the Sul? (Most reliable way is probably to open the zone map and click on the ship's name.)
HyperCube wrote:Maybe i shouldnt use the attack command? ( the same result with the Attack object...command)
I did test using the "attack object" command. You could try the "patrol" command. However, the mod should be active whenever a capital ship with at least a 4-star crew goes into combat, regardless of how combat is triggered.

If you don't mind editing a file, the easiest way to verify that the mod is active at all is to open extensions\w.e_MICT\aiscripts\MICT.move.attack.object.capital.xml and change this:

Code: Select all

<do_if value="this.ship.macro.ismacro.{macro.units_size_xl_red_destroyer_macro}">
	<set_value name="$MICT_FeedbackAll" exact="false"/>
</do_if>
<do_else>
	<set_value name="$MICT_FeedbackAll" exact="false"/>
</do_else>
to this:

Code: Select all

<do_if value="this.ship.macro.ismacro.{macro.units_size_xl_red_destroyer_macro}">
	<set_value name="$MICT_FeedbackAll" exact="true"/>
</do_if>
<do_else>
	<set_value name="$MICT_FeedbackAll" exact="true"/>
</do_else>
This will produce a LOT of spew in your logbook and cockpit display, but will let you know whenever a MICT ship moves.

w.evans
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Joined: Tue, 18. Nov 14, 17:23
x4

Post by w.evans » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 13:33

HyperCube wrote:Sucelus:
Captain has 5 stars leadership and 2 stars navigation

Def.Officer has 3 stars in combat and leadership

Balor:

Captain has 4 stars in Navigation and leadership

Def.Officer has 5 stars in Leadership and Combat
Could be the problem.

The Captain has to have at least 4 stars in leadership, navigation, and morale;

The Defence Officer has to have at least 4 stars in leadership, combat, and morale;

and the Engineer has to have at least 4 stars in engineering.

HyperCube
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri, 19. Mar 10, 15:40

Post by HyperCube » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 13:45

w.evans wrote:Thank you for the detailed response.
HyperCube wrote:MOC-T_supp3_v0.02-447-0-02
Strange. With this, both ships shouldn't go anywhere close to the Sul.
HyperCube wrote:I then issued the attack command on the enemy Heavy Sul (who has a fighter squadron escorting him). Suddenly, the Balor used his turbo onto the enemy almost ramming it then just stayed there using his turrets. The sulecus did exactly the same thing without even trying to face towards the target.
This sounds like they're targeting a fighter. Can you please make sure that the ships are targeting the Sul? (Most reliable way is probably to open the zone map and click on the ship's name.)
HyperCube wrote:Maybe i shouldnt use the attack command? ( the same result with the Attack object...command)
I did test using the "attack object" command. You could try the "patrol" command. However, the mod should be active whenever a capital ship with at least a 4-star crew goes into combat, regardless of how combat is triggered.

If you don't mind editing a file, the easiest way to verify that the mod is active at all is to open extensions\w.e_MICT\aiscripts\MICT.move.attack.object.capital.xml and change this:

Code: Select all

<do_if value="this.ship.macro.ismacro.{macro.units_size_xl_red_destroyer_macro}">
	<set_value name="$MICT_FeedbackAll" exact="false"/>
</do_if>
<do_else>
	<set_value name="$MICT_FeedbackAll" exact="false"/>
</do_else>
to this:

Code: Select all

<do_if value="this.ship.macro.ismacro.{macro.units_size_xl_red_destroyer_macro}">
	<set_value name="$MICT_FeedbackAll" exact="true"/>
</do_if>
<do_else>
	<set_value name="$MICT_FeedbackAll" exact="true"/>
</do_else>
This will produce a LOT of spew in your logbook and cockpit display, but will let you know whenever a MICT ship moves.
Hmmm, after doing that the game doesnt recognize MICT MOD at all. It doesnt appear in the in game Extentions list.

I am going to reinstall it again and see what happens.

HyperCube
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri, 19. Mar 10, 15:40

Post by HyperCube » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 13:46

w.evans wrote:
HyperCube wrote:Sucelus:
Captain has 5 stars leadership and 2 stars navigation

Def.Officer has 3 stars in combat and leadership

Balor:

Captain has 4 stars in Navigation and leadership

Def.Officer has 5 stars in Leadership and Combat
Could be the problem.

The Captain has to have at least 4 stars in leadership, navigation, and morale;

The Defence Officer has to have at least 4 stars in leadership, combat, and morale;

and the Engineer has to have at least 4 stars in engineering.
I see! i will try to find some better crew and will report if anything changes.

Thanks for the support man

w.evans
Posts: 2962
Joined: Tue, 18. Nov 14, 17:23
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Post by w.evans » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 13:58

No problem. I want it to run, so I appreciate the report.

If you do get a full 4-star crew, and it still doesn't look like it's working, would appreciate if you would let me know. (Or hell, come in here if it does work, and tell us your war stories! Those are fun too.)

I'll update the OP to try make sure that the crew requirements are clearer.

birdtable
Posts: 1691
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Post by birdtable » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 14:22

I must admit I have never found to the best of my recollection a 5,4,4, Captain or Engineer ... Have found Defence Officers with 5,4,4.
Have found 5,3,2 Engineers and Captains, where do these mythical 5,4,4 or 4,4,4 creatures hang out....? .... Or have I just checked for the 5 in the first instance....mmmmm!!!!

Sparky Sparkycorp
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
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Post by Sparky Sparkycorp » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 14:28

Show Me Your Skills mod is a big help towards finding more 5s and 4s :)

w.evans
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Post by w.evans » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 14:29

Hi birdtable,

They usually have to be trained up. Or you could use oliverjanda's mod.

oliverjanda
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Post by oliverjanda » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 14:48

I have found some 5,5,5 characters with "show me your skills".
And my mod should promote all your employees to 4,4,4 after enough time has passed.

And i wrote a mod for crafting virtual seminars today in my lunchbreak. :)
If it works, i will publish it on steam in the evening.

birdtable
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Post by birdtable » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 16:10

Cheers to w.evans and oliverjanda ... :) ...use a mod to enable another mod .. :) ........ only in Rebirth ... :D
NPC's Gain XP ... added ..... Good Fun.... :wink:

@Sparky ..."Show me your skills " added at release of mod ..essential.

Extra Bit .... Finally found a Taranis (kill mission) well away from city/defence ship intrusion ...working my way around with my trusty Laser when boom boom...what the !!! ... A K decided to get involved... :(

w.evans
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Post by w.evans » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 18:30

birdtable wrote:Extra Bit .... Finally found a Taranis (kill mission) well away from city/defence ship intrusion ...working my way around with my trusty Laser when boom boom...what the !!! ... A K decided to get involved... :(
Oof! Sucks when that happens! But fun times ahead!

oliverjanda
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Post by oliverjanda » Tue, 17. Mar 15, 10:44

@w.evans
I had an idea last night:
Ships jump to jumpbeacons to avoid jumping into something (hypothesis).
So if you can see the spot where you want to jump, jumping without beacon is ok (IZ jumps).
If someone else (yisha) tells you the coordinates where you should jump you wont jump into something either! That's ok als well! (except the one telling you the coordinates is an **** :) ).
That said, I think you should keep 1) the IZ jumping (if it does not happen too fast/ too often) AND 2) I'd also enable jumps from OOZ to the skunk after yisha says: "sending new coordinates to following ships" or 3) even jumps from ooz to the target of an attack order.

I'll mod 2) myself if you don't like the idea, because one of the most annoying things in x:r is your fleet showing up to late at the party.

w.evans
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Post by w.evans » Tue, 17. Mar 15, 12:43

oliverjanda wrote:@w.evans
I had an idea last night:
Ships jump to jumpbeacons to avoid jumping into something (hypothesis).
So if you can see the spot where you want to jump, jumping without beacon is ok (IZ jumps).
Yeah, I figured that too. It's probably much more difficult to calculate so fine a jump, however, hence the rather extreme crew requirements.

What I would really like to add is fuel expenditure. Not using fuel to jump -- that's the bit that I find rather fantastic at the moment. But not having found a way to change the amount of fuel used in a jump, it's going to still always use 100 fuel cells per jump. Come to think of it, that makes sense. A jump is a jump. Doesn't matter if you're jumping a few meters away or to the next sector. Imagining that the pseudo-physics of the thing make distance irrelevant. Expensive, though. (which might be ok since this is presumably a mid-to-late game thing?)
oliverjanda wrote:If someone else (yisha) tells you the coordinates where you should jump you wont jump into something either! That's ok als well! (except the one telling you the coordinates is an **** :) ).
That does make sense!
oliverjanda wrote:That said, I think you should keep 1) the IZ jumping (if it does not happen too fast/ too often) AND 2) I'd also enable jumps from OOZ to the skunk after yisha says: "sending new coordinates to following ships" or 3) even jumps from ooz to the target of an attack order.

I'll mod 2) myself if you don't like the idea, because one of the most annoying things in x:r is your fleet showing up to late at the party.
Hm. 2 is easy enough. 3 will probably require doing minor tweaks to a movement script or two. Haven't been playing much this past couple of days though. Been busy with work. Feel free to do both yourself, if you feel up to it. You really needn't ask, although I do appreciate it.

Trick with both 2 and 3 is limiting it. Is it from anywhere to the Skunk/target? So if the Skunk is in Maelstrom and the fleet is refitting in Gemstone Manufacture, should they be able to jump to Maelstrom in one bound? (That would actually be easiest to implement.) Gemstone Manufacture to Auspicious Excavation? Should this be limited to in-sector jumps only, and let the standard scripts handle getting to the sector?

If distance truly is irrelevant, then jumping from anywhere to anywhere makes in-game sense. However, that begs the question: why did the jump gates failing isolate the various systems in the first place? Does the jump mechanism need absolute coordinates, and since the whole galaxy is always in motion, are these impossible to get? (Maybe that's what jump beacons do -- sense their absolute coordinates in real time, and send them when queried?) While it's possible that some systems' coordinates were never documented, the coordinates of some well-known and well-established systems like Argon Prime should certainly be known to Argon military. And that was apparently not enough since they got stranded along with everybody else in Albion.

Maybe distance is only irrelevant to an extent, and that extent is defined by the Clusters?

In any case, I think you're right. And I think that in-sector jumps to the Skunk (which can send precise coordinates) can make sense, line-of-sight jumps as well (where jump parameters can be precisely calculated if the crew's good enough), and that distance-irrelevant-point-to-point jumps from far far away are arguable but rather shaky.

In-system point-to-point jumps (skipping intermediate sectors) are, hm, plausible?

Sorry for blabbering. I really really like science fiction.

........
ps. Not saying that there is such a thing as "absolute coordinates," but apparently more is needed than "1.03 AU that way relative to DeVries' star."

........
edit: just realized that 2 and 3 here
I wrote:Hm. 2 is easy enough. 3 will probably require doing minor tweaks to a movement script or two. Haven't been playing much this past couple of days though. Been busy with work. Feel free to do both yourself, if you feel up to it. You really needn't ask, although I do appreciate it.
are reversed. 3 is easy. 2 will need delving into a couple other aiscripts.
Last edited by w.evans on Tue, 17. Mar 15, 19:31, edited 1 time in total.

oliverjanda
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun, 14. Feb 10, 18:47
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Post by oliverjanda » Tue, 17. Mar 15, 12:59

Hm. 2 is easy enough. 3 will probably require doing minor tweaks to a movement script or two. Haven't been playing much this past couple of days though. Been busy with work. Feel free to do both yourself, if you feel up to it. You really needn't ask, although I do appreciate it.
I didn't really ask permission but i think it would really fit well into your mod.
I do not want to make another combat AI mod (so I will not do 3) ) but i could imagine doing 2) by replacing the "boost to me" by a "jump to me".
I never touched the ai scripts before, so i don't know if i'm to the task (i probalby am but i don't know how long it will take)

Maybe distance is only irrelevant to an extent, and that extent is defined by the Clusters?
Yes, I think so.

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