Concerning X4

General discussions about X Rebirth.

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Silla
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Post by Silla » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 00:04

I hope the next UI is able to use the complete screen ..or at least 80% of it and not just 50% or so...

monster.zero
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Post by monster.zero » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 16:23

GUI?!!?
Are we sitting in a space ship??
How are we 'seeing' this GUI(popping out the side of my monitor)? :lol:

GUI should be Heads Up Displayed.

Could you imagine Star Citizen with a pop up GUI menu?!!? Of course not!! In Star Citizen you are ON the ship! You use your helmet HUD or your wrist band projection or your Cockpit HUD or the various monitors on your ship............You are Not at home watching it on a monitor.


Hopefully X4 will support VR and this becomes a non issue. [/b]
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The Q
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Post by The Q » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 16:57

Err... A Head-up-Display (HUD) is still a Graphical User Interface (GUI).
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Nikola515
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Post by Nikola515 » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 20:52

In my opinion XR UI was focused more on small scale management than a empire building. This would be perfect if XR was limited to hand full of ships and stations. But after we get to empire building it becomes impossible to manage anything....

What I would want to see more use of map UI. Here are some examples:

1) Single or double click on stations would open trade menu and for ship build menu (for shipyard).

2) Selecting trade/combat ship once on map and click to stations would assign it automatically to station. Also when selecting ship and clicking one enemy it will attack enemy ships.

3) Clicking once on ship will only select that ship.

4) Clicking twice will select all ships that are same in that zone.

5) Clicking three times would select all ships in that class.

6) Clicking right mouse button will open station/ship menu.

This is some of things that would be useful later in game... Also I would want to add some other things:

1) Get rid of equip ship weapons & shields. Nobody relly don't buy half equipped ships (at least I don't).

2) Capital ship quota(buying multiple ships at once). This would be useful later in game where we can buy multiple ships without using 1000 clicks and 5 hours to do it.

3) Ships should be equipped with crew automatically.

This would improve later game UI when we have large empires without micromanaging every small thing. I have over 2000 hours on XR and this is one of reasons why I dislike game. It is fun at beginning but later it gets annoying without mods. Also AI is another problem as well.
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monster.zero
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Post by monster.zero » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 21:25

The Q wrote:Err... A Head-up-Display (HUD) is still a Graphical User Interface (GUI).
No..That's an Overlay. a HUD is a projection onto a cockpit window or a helmet visor. Or a holographic projection onto a surface of a in game object.



The MENU pop up(overlay) on the left side of the screen, is unconnected to anything in the game. It's no different then the opening selection screen just a bitmap overlay. In X3 you aren't aboard the ship...you're remotely controlling it's actions and watching it at home on a 2D monitor(hence a 2D menu).




It's like EVE: Online overlay...it's not a HUD...you aren't on the ship. You're just observing through a window.

Overlays and drop down menus are 80's tech...if ES is going old school with X4 and having immersion breaking pop up menus I'll be disappointed. it's the 21st century already.
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OR C ; Bitwise OR with the other byte
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Sparky Sparkycorp
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Post by Sparky Sparkycorp » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 22:21

monster.zero wrote:
The Q wrote:Err... A Head-up-Display (HUD) is still a Graphical User Interface (GUI).
No..That's an Overlay. a HUD is a projection onto a cockpit window or a helmet visor. Or a holographic projection onto a surface of a in game object.



The MENU pop up(overlay) on the left side of the screen, is unconnected to anything in the game. It's no different then the opening selection screen just a bitmap overlay.
How do you know that Ren isn't wearing a helmet*, and the menu on the left isn't simply being shown on the left to keep it available without blocking his view?

*Or has an implant that makes him perceive the menu is on the left of his field of vision.
monster.zero wrote: In X3 you aren't aboard the ship...you're remotely controlling it's actions and watching it at home on a 2D monitor(hence a 2D menu).
Who or what is existing the ship for spacewalks? If it's not the player's body, why can't the player take control of any ship or spacesuit inside them remotely?

matveich[EG]
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Post by matveich[EG] » Sun, 2. Apr 17, 00:04

Stability over Features. Usability over Immersion.

Certain game features(like flying multiple ships) or immersive UI improve user experience. However, these things should not come at the expense of game stability or UI convenience, as game breaking bugs or cumbersome UI will leave many users unhappy and force them to leave lots of negative reviews.

Snafu_X3
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Post by Snafu_X3 » Sun, 2. Apr 17, 01:11

Just so long as R(off-click, for LH users)MB menus become available I'll be happy: modders can figure out specific UI/menu details if necessary

The above is one of the most 'intuitive' UI things I miss from <X:R

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monster.zero
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Post by monster.zero » Sun, 2. Apr 17, 16:01

Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:
monster.zero wrote:
The Q wrote:Err... A Head-up-Display (HUD) is still a Graphical User Interface (GUI).
No..That's an Overlay. a HUD is a projection onto a cockpit window or a helmet visor. Or a holographic projection onto a surface of a in game object.



The MENU pop up(overlay) on the left side of the screen, is unconnected to anything in the game. It's no different then the opening selection screen just a bitmap overlay.
How do you know that Ren isn't wearing a helmet*, and the menu on the left isn't simply being shown on the left to keep it available without blocking his view?

*Or has an implant that makes him perceive the menu is on the left of his field of vision.
monster.zero wrote: In X3 you aren't aboard the ship...you're remotely controlling it's actions and watching it at home on a 2D monitor(hence a 2D menu).
Who or what is existing the ship for spacewalks? If it's not the player's body, why can't the player take control of any ship or spacesuit inside them remotely?

Well.....Was really hoping I'd wouldn't have to 'imagine' icons and pop up menu's fed directly into my brain.

If that's the direction they are headed...so be it.

Not sure how they are going to handle UI overlays in Virtual Reality?! Will you have to remove your headset to look at your monitor? Think they could kill two birds with one stone....just make the jump to HUD's.
DEC BC ; Decrease the counter
LD A, B ; Load one byte of the counter into the accumulator
OR C ; Bitwise OR with the other byte
JR NZ, Loop

dfm5000
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Post by dfm5000 » Mon, 3. Apr 17, 07:06

I hope this new interface that is being worked on for X4 includes these three things.s

1. The ability to command your squad properly this time, i can't believe i have to use one of my wishes on this.

2. A real corporation management system, that means banking hireing and fireing system. A salary system, food management meaning if you don't feed them they leave or die.

3. Making friends and having contacts, that can call you and friends that you can call.

Like someones trying to kill me i need help, or lets raid this warehouse or rob this space bank.

Alandauron
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Post by Alandauron » Tue, 11. Apr 17, 23:53

linolafett wrote:I got the lovely task of taking care of the UI in X4...
Sweet! Now we know who to blame when we hate everything about it ;)

Honestly I feel for you in your task, making the UI is often one of the most difficult things to do in a game. Even if you please the majority there will always be someone(or a group of someones) that thinks it's terrible and will have all these "amazing" suggestions on how it could have been improved. Good luck my friend!

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BigBANGtheory
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Post by BigBANGtheory » Sun, 16. Apr 17, 22:48

Man of my word, prior to the cheese topping :P
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CommanderTM
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Post by CommanderTM » Mon, 17. Apr 17, 11:52

Thank you linolafett for letting us know and getting feedback! I also have few ideas that would help a lot with making ship buying and refitting easier.

1. Blueprints. It would be awesome if we could have blueprint dropdown at ship buy screen and refitting screen. If i want to have specific loadout and drone counts on my mining vessel i should not be forced to enter it every time i buy one. I could just select one blueprint from dropdown menu and click buy. Creating ablueprint can be done with a "create blueprint" button at the last screen where you also click buy. Some input box opens up and you type in the name and it is saved. Deleting could be done after selecting blueprint and just hitting delete blueprint button.

2. Ship count at final dialog on ship buying. If i want to buy 10 capships with specific loadout i could just select the blueprint and enter the number i want to buy and click the button.

Good luck! :)

linolafett
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Post by linolafett » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 09:46

CommanderTM wrote: 1. Blueprints. It would be awesome if we could have blueprint dropdown at ship buy screen and refitting screen.

2. Ship count at final dialog on ship buying.
Both cases are taken care of :)
The loadout can be understood as a list of upgrades on a selected ship. These loadouts can be saved and edited and are avaliable every time you buy a ship.

EDIT: clarified loadout != blueprint
01000100 01101111 00100000 01110011 01110000 01101100 01101001 01110100 00100000 01100101 01100001 01110100 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101111 01101011 01101001 01100101 01110011 00111111

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Cucumber King
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Post by Cucumber King » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 19:07

Not going for an RTS like element seems like a huge missed opportunity to me.

Fleet management becomes much easier when it moves from the 2D sector map to an actual Homeworld-like view. This would lend itself very well for end-game fleet/asset managment and would show the true scope of battles then fought. Think mouse dragging, drag & dropping for cargo, much more intuitive movement in 3D space and quick RTS like orders.

Sure, realism is at odds here but it wouldn't be unrealistic to assume that a future technology could simulate a real-time sector in a 3D VR environment that a user can interact with.

Here is a video from the Limit Theory prototype that shows an RTS-like environment:

https://youtu.be/ilg8azR2JK8?t=40

The ship cockpits are indeed immersive, but once you are in a capital ship you want to control the sector - and seeing recent VR developments, simulations of ones surroundings aren't a far fetched thought.

If you truly want to cast aside the menu mess of in-sector asset management, this is likely the most intuitive way to do it.

I hope you strongly consider the implementation of a view like this if we are indeed able to control fleets in X4, or create complex space empires.

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