Concerning X4

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rrfarmer
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Concerning X4

Post by rrfarmer » Thu, 16. Feb 17, 19:33

Someone please send Egosoft this book, so they can make good menus for X4

https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Make-Think- ... 0321965515

<3

Toramo
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Post by Toramo » Fri, 17. Feb 17, 13:44

:lol:
I agree :)

Graaf
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Post by Graaf » Fri, 17. Feb 17, 20:11

Trade Fight Build DontMakeMeThink?

ShoC
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Post by ShoC » Sat, 18. Feb 17, 16:49

I don't like the rebirth gui but certainly do like x3ap gui

We must remember there is so many functions we can perform that sort of gui is best placed.
My personal opinion however. I'd like a return to it
they have had almost 1000 years to terraform Aldrin, why are they all still sitting around a giant rock?

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FlightJunkie
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Post by FlightJunkie » Sat, 18. Feb 17, 21:49

Oh snap :o
this is not a xenon-> :xenon: its a Borg

gbjbaanb
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Post by gbjbaanb » Sun, 19. Feb 17, 22:16

ShoC wrote:I don't like the rebirth gui but certainly do like x3ap gui

We must remember there is so many functions we can perform that sort of gui is best placed.
My personal opinion however. I'd like a return to it
or an improvement on the X3AP GUI - which although is better than the twitch-gamer UI of Rebirth, could have been improved with a bit of consistency, speed and alternative ways of accessing it - so sidebars for the ships that are selected, group selection of ships and apply menus to them, maybe reassign menu commands to a short-cut menu that's bound to the function keys or similar.

The complexity of what many people are asking for in X4 suggests that we need the old menu-driven UI in order to have the wealth of commands to apply to our in-game assets.

Cucumber King
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Post by Cucumber King » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 03:46

I wish they'd make the menus feel as responsive as those in your OS of choice.

I'm quite sure that the tempation is there to have those 3D floating menus and lots of glitter but I'd urge EGOSOFT to consider a minimalist approach, with design languages such as material design for Android serving as inspiration.

Especially as more and more data becomes available to the player, a cleaner interface can decrease the perceived overwhelming nature of it. Sorting and searching could play a role here... Let players type!

Let's hope EGOSOFT have ditched the "controller first" mentality by now.

Mouse and keyboard allow for much more efficient input when handling what will hopefully be the scalable complexity of X4.

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Général Grievous
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Post by Général Grievous » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 14:05

The best way i think is to make a tree (like Nexus: The jupiter incident), on the left side of your screen
A strategical map, like we can find on Homeworld or on the new "Avorion" game could be a very good thing too.

This way you can easely manage all your proprieties as fast and as simply as possible.

Anyway it is clear that the GUI of X3 was better than X Rebirth one.
Il vaut mieux mobiliser son intelligence sur des conneries plutot que de mobiliser sa connerie sur des choses intelligentes...

carran
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Post by carran » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 15:12

At least with X3 I knew what I was doing and more importantly, why I was doing it

Cucumber King
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Post by Cucumber King » Thu, 23. Feb 17, 10:20

Has there been any news on an RTS like interface a la Limit Theory?

It could help fleet management immensely if you could just drag and click to send and have a strategic 3D in-game overview of the sector.

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spankahontis
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Post by spankahontis » Fri, 24. Feb 17, 00:29

Not had a problem with the interface of Rebirth, 4.0 is way better than the 1.0.
I found Reunion to AP to be more difficult to understand at first, minimal is good but too minimal needs to be avoided.
I found Rebirth cleaned up allot of the complexity of the UI, and numerical systems for choosing modes, hubs, etc. on the keyboard made things smoother for me.

deadmoomin
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Post by deadmoomin » Thu, 30. Mar 17, 05:32

The dilemma is: do you want a game which enables the player to have fine grain control? or do you want a simple, shallow game where the player has very little control?

The level of control in X3 required a fairly complex UI. After getting over the initial learning curve, I actually found X3's UI to be extremely logical and flexible.

There comes a point where you can't reduce the requirement of thought in a game without first reducing the complexity of the game. I love X3 for its complexity and its UI was fit for purpose.

linolafett
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Post by linolafett » Thu, 30. Mar 17, 11:32

I got the lovely task of taking care of the UI in X4 and hope it will be useful for you as a user. There were quie a few threads already in the forum regarding UI behaviour: These threads are not wasted, i try to keep feedback in my mind when doing stuff.

I cant really say a lot regarding details, but some general things probably wont change anymore.

Main focus for me is to reduce the amount of clicks to do actions.
Buying a capital ship in XR with full equipment could take about 50 clicks. This was caused by layers, of layers of ui (sliders could not be inside a table, and had to be done in a new seperated menu).
We added this functionality now for X4. proper slider elements inside a table where you can also type in numbers (e.g for trading).
That was a must to condense the Menus massively.

Of course sometimes saving a click here and there will be problematic, so compromises have to be made to keep the overall behaviour of the Ui coherent.

In addition to that, i try to have often used interactions more prominent and the "hardcore" player functionalty not always directly exposed, to keep the Ui a bit easier to read and understand.
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Caldazar
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Post by Caldazar » Thu, 30. Mar 17, 12:37

Thank you for the response, lino. Always interesting to get some insight into the development process.
linolafett wrote:Main focus for me is to reduce the amount of clicks to do actions.
Buying a capital ship in XR with full equipment could take about 50 clicks. This was caused by layers, of layers of ui (sliders could not be inside a table, and had to be done in a new seperated menu).
Ah, I've always wondered why that was done in a sub menu.
linolafett wrote:We added this functionality now for X4. proper slider elements inside a table where you can also type in numbers (e.g for trading).
That was a must to condense the Menus massively.
That is very nice to hear. Will there also be keyboard shortcuts to set to min/max?
linolafett wrote:I try to keep feedback in my mind when doing stuff.
Then I'd like to use the opportunity to mention my personal pet peeve with the UI in the newer X-Games: I'd really love to have a complete and consistent set of keyboard commands. Read: I do not have to use the mouse and the same button usually does the same thing.

For example, I would like to dock my ship without fiddling with my mouse until I manage to click a small icon that moves relative to my ship.

I'm aware that this is probably not a mainstream concern, but I still want to ask: Where are good keyboard shortcuts on the priority list for X4?

linolafett
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Post by linolafett » Thu, 30. Mar 17, 13:33

Caldazar wrote: Then I'd like to use the opportunity to mention my personal pet peeve with the UI in the newer X-Games: I'd really love to have a complete and consistent set of keyboard commands. Read: I do not have to use the mouse and the same button usually does the same thing.
As i am currently doing a UI for mouse input, the keyboard input is by far not optimal.
Cases like having seperated tables and buttons on screen are an issue. Its difficult to get with ease in a different area of the ui without the mouse.
I am aware of it, but did not work on this behaviour so far.
It is neccessary to "fix" these cases for later controller input. I would like for joystick players and console controller to also be able to use the ui.
As the mouse/keyboard is the main input, expect a slower naviagation without a mouse.
Caldazar wrote: For example, I would like to dock my ship without fiddling with my mouse until I manage to click a small icon that moves relative to my ship.
Shift+D makes you dock, if you have the docking software installed and are nearby the dockarea.
Shift+D again to undock.
Caldazar wrote: I'm aware that this is probably not a mainstream concern, but I still want to ask: Where are good keyboard shortcuts on the priority list for X4?
Shortcuts are not my area of work. I cant really comment on this.
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