Joysticks with x rebirth

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Tue, 22. Mar 16, 13:04

Targeting with a HOTAS/Joystick is a nightmare ... Enemy Fighters, surface elements or whatever .... The definition of Very Hard for gameplay should be only use a joystick.
Targeting software Mk 2 is a joke.... Only a lmb and rmb on a mouse is effective .....I have to continually stop with the joystick switch to mouse and keyboard for surface elements ... and for anyone to say you just need targeting software mk2 then I suggest they fly up behind a fleeing ship and target individual engines ... target everything but the engine....whereas with a mouse lmb click "engine" rmb click destroyed plus no need to move ship, just park/slipstream safe and click away.....

GCU Grey Area · Post by **GCU Grey Area** » Tue, 22. Mar 16, 13:37

birdtable wrote:Targeting with a HOTAS/Joystick is a nightmare ... Enemy Fighters, surface elements or whatever .... The definition of Very Hard for gameplay should be only use a joystick.
Targeting software Mk 2 is a joke.... Only a lmb and rmb on a mouse is effective .....I have to continually stop with the joystick switch to mouse and keyboard for surface elements ... and for anyone to say you just need targeting software mk2 then I suggest they fly up behind a fleeing ship and target individual engines ... target everything but the engine....whereas with a mouse lmb click "engine" rmb click destroyed plus no need to move ship, just park/slipstream safe and click away.....

I play XR primarily with a joystick (Saitek Cyborg 3D) & have absolutely no issues with targeting. Certainly never need to use the mouse for that, which I generally only use when walking around stations (FPS style gameplay with a joystick just feels weird). What sort of joystick are you using? Are you sure it's configured correctly? I'm experiencing none of the issues you write about with respect to targeting individual engines, etc.

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Tue, 22. Mar 16, 14:44

Once again ... No comment.

Lander1979 · Post by **Lander1979** » Tue, 22. Mar 16, 15:51

Thats why I love my T16000M's and Thrustmasters TARGET software. I can pretty much map any control or script any macro I want to the flightstick. If I want to get really creative and customize it to the max, I can script the whole profile in a C++ like environment which gives me total control of every detail.

Even with default settings in the TARGET software, my T16000M Thrustmaster Flightsticks give exceptional control when emulating the mouse(and so they should with a touted 16,000 DPI resolution).

While I was at it I also scripted in a weapons safety button that prevents my itchy trigger fingers from accidentally spamming guns and missiles at friendly stations.

I particularly enjoy using the left flightsticks twist axis as the throttle (with the left trigger as boost) which functions much like a motorbike (it reminds me of the Lensman Cycroader).

BigBANGtheory · Post by **BigBANGtheory** » Tue, 22. Mar 16, 23:37

There seems to be an issue relating to range when trying to target a station docking area, if you are really close it won't auto select (gamepad mode) or manual select target object. However if you are say 3-4km away it works

Anyone else get this?

GCU Grey Area · Post by **GCU Grey Area** » Wed, 23. Mar 16, 00:47

BigBANGtheory wrote:There seems to be an issue relating to range when trying to target a station docking area, if you are really close it won't auto select (gamepad mode) or manual select target object. However if you are say 3-4km away it works Anyone else get this?

Only time I've experienced notable issues with range when selecting docking ports (either auto-target or manually), is if I've recently started a new game & haven't yet scanned the docking ports on newly discovered stations - easy to spot those though since unscanned docking port icons are blue rather than white (c.f. scanning info nodes on stations).

In those circumstances I find I do have to get quite close to them before they will register as a viable target. Can get a bit hairy at times since I generally prefer Supercharged engines (doesn't leave a lot of time to scan, target & dock when you're approaching a new station at 360m/s). Aside from that don't recall any other particular issues with targeting docking ports at the ranges you mention.

One thing that might help is if you Plot Course to a specific docking port (or an NPC who lives there), you can select it as a target from very long range (e.g. 50km+), as long as you're in the same zone & have previously scanned that dock.

Snafu_X3 · Post by **Snafu_X3** » Wed, 23. Mar 16, 01:42

Auto-scan range for (previously unscanned) docks (& prolly i-points) is 750m with the object within the target reticule

Once you've scanned/discovered them you can manually target them from any range they're visible (excluding blocking elements such as fog, station parts, passing ships etc); if you use guidance to get you to a particular NPC & have already scanned their dock, you can select that dock instantly no matter what's blocking your LoS (distance uses a slightly different calculation & may depend upon game GFX settings)

BigBANGtheory · Post by **BigBANGtheory** » Wed, 23. Mar 16, 10:35

Snafu_X3 wrote:Auto-scan range for (previously unscanned) docks (& prolly i-points) is 750m with the object within the target reticule

Once you've scanned/discovered them you can manually target them from any range they're visible (excluding blocking elements such as fog, station parts, passing ships etc); if you use guidance to get you to a particular NPC & have already scanned their dock, you can select that dock instantly no matter what's blocking your LoS (distance uses a slightly different calculation & may depend upon game GFX settings)

I see something different in my new start.

If I say fly to a station dock area such that it is scanned and known to me it does indeed auto select or manual select at around 750m, then if I travel away for a few km I can turn around and manually select it at range... All is well there.

However if I am within again around 750m of that same dock with it not targeted or for some reason I have manually targeted something else I cannot seem to re-acquire that same dock port as a target either using auto-target (from gamepad mode) or manual target object hotkey it just refuses to recognise it. What I can do is fly away from the dock port to around 1km and then it works again

Is it just me or do you guys get that same behaviour with your jouysticks? Except Lander who has it seems reconfigured his setup to emulate the mouse cursor control which doesn't have this problem, though one assumes you experienced it which was a reason which drove you to that work around?

GCU Grey Area · Post by **GCU Grey Area** » Wed, 23. Mar 16, 11:12

BigBANGtheory wrote:Is it just me or do you guys get that same behaviour with your jouysticks?

Haven't experienced anything like that in my game.

Just did a quick test to confirm. Flew near a docking port & at a variety of ranges (approx 200m, 500m & 700m) manually targeted the port, then turned away to target a passing mass traffic vehicle, then back to the port again. Had no problems at all selecting the port as a manual target.

Tested both the buttons on the base of my joystick & the targeting keys I have assigned on keyboard (I use both so I've got convenient targeting controls whether my right hand's operating the throttle on the joystick, or strafe controls on the keyboard). No difference to targeting regardless of input device used.

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Wed, 23. Mar 16, 12:55

I have no problem targeting with keyboard, no problems with mouse but as soon as I use allotted button for targeting it targets everything but what I am looking at ... Using X52 pro..... Not a deficiency or lack of skill or whatever you put it down to just an inability to target correctly .. As I previously mentioned to fly up behind a fleeing ship and target one engine, then it is impossible to target another engine ....regardless of what designated key is pressed I will target other subsystems on the ship, passing traders, enemies passing by in the tube system.....and if/when targeted unless you are in the correct location no damage will be done to selected highlighted engine......
Click with a mouse and click dead, click dead, click dead don't have to move just fan round and easy peasy..your defunct.
Not a lack of skilll
Not a lack of ability
A reality.

Would like to know what Snafu_X3 means by "may depend upon game GFX settings" .......???????

Snafu_X3 · Post by **Snafu_X3** » Wed, 23. Mar 16, 19:51

The game GFX settings include LOD & viewable distance. If you've set these to high (or ultra, or whatever) the game /might/ recognise this as effectively expansion of a zone's borders, so IZ/OOZ calculations may differ & allow some targets/elements to be targetable from a different zone.. IYSWIM

There's a discussion in the /beta forum mentioning this sort of thing; I'll see if I can find the link..

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Wed, 23. Mar 16, 20:39

My Settings ...
2560 X 1440 ,
Anti aliasing 0,
Vsync on,
gamma 100,
shadows high,
soft shadows on,
glow high,
distortion off,
Lod setting 100,
view distance 80
effect distance 100
shader quality high
radar low.

Hopefully I can adjust the some of the settings.....

Snafu_X3 · Post by **Snafu_X3** » Wed, 23. Mar 16, 21:38

Lod may not matter so much, but try reducing view distance by a good proportion (say, down to 20) & see what changes..

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Thu, 24. Mar 16, 10:00

Cheers Snafu, tried many different settings and have come to the realisation that it works (next system) but in a strict pattern .... regardless of how close you are to any targeted system .. example engines ,, it will cycle through every other sub system to get to the next engine...it will not target nearest first unless you use mouse click first or cycle through every sub system first and then do previous/next system to maintain engine targets,
That is unless a passing ship gets chosen to be the next target and all its sub systems are cycled through......
Thanks again...

Forgot ... unless you are in the right position the next engine will never be highlighted as it highlights a further sub system that is direct line of sight as in straight line from Skunk to distant sub system.

BigBANGtheory · Post by **BigBANGtheory** » Thu, 24. Mar 16, 16:34

GCU Grey Area wrote:
BigBANGtheory wrote:Is it just me or do you guys get that same behaviour with your jouysticks?
Haven't experienced anything like that in my game.

Just did a quick test to confirm. Flew near a docking port & at a variety of ranges (approx 200m, 500m & 700m) manually targeted the port, then turned away to target a passing mass traffic vehicle, then back to the port again. Had no problems at all selecting the port as a manual target.

Tested both the buttons on the base of my joystick & the targeting keys I have assigned on keyboard (I use both so I've got convenient targeting controls whether my right hand's operating the throttle on the joystick, or strafe controls on the keyboard). No difference to targeting regardless of input device used.

I tried the keyboard hot key for Target Object (the 2nd one as there are two in the controller options) and it does the same as my hotas hotkey i.e. doesn't allow me to select the station docks

I'll report it as a bug and see if someone can figure it out, the mouse control works fine but Target Object is very hit & miss for me

GCU Grey Area · Post by **GCU Grey Area** » Thu, 24. Mar 16, 19:37

BigBANGtheory wrote:I tried the keyboard hot key for Target Object (the 2nd one as there are two in the controller options) and it does the same as my hotas hotkey i.e. doesn't allow me to select the station docks

I'll report it as a bug and see if someone can figure it out, the mouse control works fine but Target Object is very hit & miss for me

Don't know if it makes any difference at all, however whenever I have duplicate controls I always have keyboard controls listed first (i.e. left-hand column) & joystick second. Might be worth trying them the other way round. Perhaps also try temporarily removing the joystick setting for Target Object to test if there's maybe a conflict going on which is also glitching the keyboard hotkey.

BigBANGtheory · Post by **BigBANGtheory** » Fri, 25. Mar 16, 00:01

ok thanks for the tip I'll give that a try

Snafu_X3 · Post by **Snafu_X3** » Fri, 25. Mar 16, 01:16

BTW Birdie, which combat computer d'you have installed? The Mk2 /replaces/ the Mk1; it's not an addon (this confused me a little a few months ago as it's not made obvious in the relevant Mechanic screen)

Therefore you should only have the Mk2, not both Mk1 & Mk2..

BigBANGtheory · Post by **BigBANGtheory** » Fri, 25. Mar 16, 10:34

ok I think I've figured it out and there is I believe a bug here somewhere

Now I understand the targeting of station docks better i.e. its not enough to see them you have to have passed close by to them to target them... There does appear to be a problem when you don't have the Mk2 Target Extension installed.

When you manually target something else the auto-target (gamepad mode) stops working and you cannot manually target the dock ports unless you have the Mk2 software. Where as if you have a mouse you can target them fine under any condition. This can't be right/intended because you need to target a dock port in order to dock so can't use a hotas properly until you get the Mk2 software to just dock at stations without having to jump back to mouse or you must not manually target anything to stay in "auto-target mode".

Could someone else with a joystick confirm this behaviour with a new start?

birdtable · Post by **birdtable** » Fri, 25. Mar 16, 11:45

@ Snafu_X3 .... Using only the Targeting System Extension Mk 2, the problem is that it is not consistent..... It does vary with ship design/variant,,,, it just appears worse after 4.0 plus I have experienced a difference in station docking, not to the same extent as BigBang but when you have played as much as I have you do notice/sense subtle changes.
It would be interesting if BigBang compared his graphic settings with mine above and if using same joystick ..X52 pro.

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Joysticks with x rebirth