[v3.0 TO] Neutral Faction executing unprovoked attacks???

[MrScubaSteve]

I have not edited my savegame. This is how it currently looks, after my being in Teladi space a few hours:

Code: Select all

<faction id="teladigunrunner">
<relations>
<relation faction="reivers" relation="-0.32"/>
<relation faction="xenon" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="enemy" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="smuggler" relation="-0.06"/>
<relation faction="criminal" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="sovereignsyndicate" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="hereticvanguards" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="teladi" relation="-0.001"/>
<relation faction="teladidrugrunner" relation="0.1"/>
</relations>
</faction>

When I first went into Teladi space, there were wrecks everywhere and dropped containers all around the big wheel station. I don't know if the Teladi Union was shooting back at the attackers, but I did see ships there that I later learned were the CAR faction. After I docked at the station I did hear shooting, though.

I called my big trade ship in and bought a Teladi liquid freighter. A few minutes later they got killed by a CAR Marauder Phoenix. I went out and looked, and it started shooting at me. As soon as it shot me it turned red (or maybe before).

I out-manuvered it and shot up it's engines and jumpdrive, and then took out the turrets. I lost two whole boarding parties, before I gave up and battered it until it blew up. I have since heard that boarding is different now.

I think this means that the "initial condition" for the teladi factions was not correct, but that the relations do work. The Teladi Union is now shooting the pirates, and the large station is safer. Beware though, the pirates are loose.

In other systems, I have seen single stations go red, after catching me with contraband, and then go back to blue later without all of the faction going red. I think I have seen single ships go red after I hit them by mistake, without the faction going red.

So:

Factions have relations to each other faction. Stations have their own relations, in addition to the faction relations. Ships have their own relations, as well. You can make a ship angry, but if you don't shoot it up too much it will not make the whole faction hate you.

Well what you probably saw, was the temporary relation loss that happens whenever you shoot a ship or station. Your relation with that specific ship drops a whole lot temporarily. But your overall relation stays the same. In the bit of code you posted, the relationship between teladi and teladigunrunner seems to be negative. But -0.001 is still counted as neutral.

When one of the pirate maurauders shoots a Teladi ship, that Teladi ship will temporarily HATE the marauder, but the overall relation between the factions, although effected by the shooting, changes much less. If you want the Teladi to continue fighting back against the Cartel and Uguras Armaments, you have to manually change their relationship to negative (-0,5 is max negative).


UPDATE 2 on the savegame described a few posts above:
A couple of more hours in and the Teladi now seem to be bullying the Teladigunrunner (Uguras Armaments) faction. Attacking their base and chasing Phoenix Marauders out of Teladi zones. I havent found the Teladidrugrunner (cartel) base yet, maybe it's being attacked as well.

[spankahontis]

I have not edited my savegame. This is how it currently looks, after my being in Teladi space a few hours:

Code: Select all

<faction id="teladigunrunner">
<relations>
<relation faction="reivers" relation="-0.32"/>
<relation faction="xenon" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="enemy" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="smuggler" relation="-0.06"/>
<relation faction="criminal" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="sovereignsyndicate" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="hereticvanguards" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="teladi" relation="-0.001"/>
<relation faction="teladidrugrunner" relation="0.1"/>
</relations>
</faction>

When I first went into Teladi space, there were wrecks everywhere and dropped containers all around the big wheel station. I don't know if the Teladi Union was shooting back at the attackers, but I did see ships there that I later learned were the CAR faction. After I docked at the station I did hear shooting, though.

I called my big trade ship in and bought a Teladi liquid freighter. A few minutes later they got killed by a CAR Marauder Phoenix. I went out and looked, and it started shooting at me. As soon as it shot me it turned red (or maybe before).

I out-manuvered it and shot up it's engines and jumpdrive, and then took out the turrets. I lost two whole boarding parties, before I gave up and battered it until it blew up. I have since heard that boarding is different now.

I think this means that the "initial condition" for the teladi factions was not correct, but that the relations do work. The Teladi Union is now shooting the pirates, and the large station is safer. Beware though, the pirates are loose.

In other systems, I have seen single stations go red, after catching me with contraband, and then go back to blue later without all of the faction going red. I think I have seen single ships go red after I hit them by mistake, without the faction going red.

So:

Factions have relations to each other faction. Stations have their own relations, in addition to the faction relations. Ships have their own relations, as well. You can make a ship angry, but if you don't shoot it up too much it will not make the whole faction hate you.

Well what you probably saw, was the temporary relation loss that happens whenever you shoot a ship or station. Your relation with that specific ship drops a whole lot temporarily. But your overall relation stays the same. In the bit of code you posted, the relationship between teladi and teladigunrunner seems to be negative. But -0.001 is still counted as neutral.

When one of the pirate maurauders shoots a Teladi ship, that Teladi ship will temporarily HATE the marauder, but the overall relation between the factions, although effected by the shooting, changes much less. If you want the Teladi to continue fighting back against the Cartel and Uguras Armaments, you have to manually change their relationship to negative (-0,5 is max negative).


UPDATE 2 on the savegame described a few posts above:
A couple of more hours in and the Teladi now seem to be bullying the Teladigunrunner (Uguras Armaments) faction. Attacking their base and chasing Phoenix Marauders out of Teladi zones. I havent found the Teladidrugrunner (cartel) base yet, maybe it's being attacked as well.

It's in the other sector, there are Highways in it. One that leads you round in a circle past a Teladi Union Teladianium Factory and a Water Plant.
You get off at the Teladianium stop, travel west from that location, past the Gas cloud there is another local highway not connected to the one you exited.

It'll lead you to 3 Zones, you'll find the 3 Cartel's Den's at the top. In the middle zone is a Xenon Station and after that I think it's the Ugari Armaments station which is just another Den.

[randomuser]

well guess i ll be putting rebirth on hold until this is fixed .... lost another 3 freighters with > 100.000.000 net value while inzone ... blue ships , teladi union jsut watching

[spankahontis]

well guess i ll be putting rebirth on hold until this is fixed .... lost another 3 freighters with > 100.000.000 net value while inzone ... blue ships , teladi union jsut watching

Cartel and U.Armaments have dens, find them and do jobs for them to get your rank up to Allied with them.
They should leave you alone after that, if not then bring out the Destroyers.

[MrScubaSteve]

well guess i ll be putting rebirth on hold until this is fixed .... lost another 3 freighters with > 100.000.000 net value while inzone ... blue ships , teladi union jsut watching

Cartel and U.Armaments have dens, find them and do jobs for them to get your rank up to Allied with them.
They should leave you alone after that, if not then bring out the Destroyers.

Thing is, according to reports, they won't leave you alone even if you've allied them. That's why I ended up editing the savegame to make the Teladi be angry with them. Doing this really tipped the scales.

[TonyEvans]

Be nice if we had the old option to set factions/races to Hostile like we could in older games. Or allow ships to adjust their IFF settings as needed when attacked by, for example, "neutral" enemies.

[MrScubaSteve]

Be nice if we had the old option to set factions/races to Hostile like we could in older games. Or allow ships to adjust their IFF settings as needed when attacked by, for example, "neutral" enemies.

If you keep killing their stuff they'll be hostile after a while.

Rest could be managed through savegame editing. Until it gets fixed I mean. Through the savegame you have direct control over faction relations. Even the relation between other factions.

[randomuser]

it would be fine if the attacks would stop at +15 rep instead of never.
would fit the pirate thing too.

[Syock]

If any of you ends up trying this, please let me know how it went.

Thank you for finding this MrScubaSteve!

I edited the standings under the Teladi faction only, and it worked instantly.

It is really a brute force workaround. The pirate behavior in X3 Teladi space was very well balanced. The pirates here are just stupid, so the brute force solution is needed for the time being.

[randomuser]

guess they ll keep killing or stuff at 30 rep even after 4.21 ;/

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

guess they ll keep killing or stuff at 30 rep even after 4.21 ;/

Welcome back to the forum but please do not bump 2.5 year old threads. Feel free to create a new one if you would like to provide feedback on this topic.

Ultimately though, this is the way the game mechanic was designed rather than a bug so it may not change.

If you wish to trade safely in FoO knowing they will shoot civilian ships, you could board Phoenix Mauraders piloted by generic assassination mission pirate targets. That won't damage your rep and those local factions won't attack friendly Fight Ships. The Phoenix Maurader is a Fight Ship with a small universal cargobay.