Gas clouds / nebula effects in Rebirth?

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elexis
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Post by elexis » Mon, 13. May 13, 11:24

Fake? What is real?

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BigBANGtheory
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Post by BigBANGtheory » Mon, 13. May 13, 11:32

I think he means the gas or nebula being a weak shader effect as opposed to a simulated 3d cloud or particle structure.

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elexis
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Post by elexis » Mon, 13. May 13, 11:43

Because there is literally nothing more performance costing than 3d volumetric clouds.

DiabloTigerSix
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Post by DiabloTigerSix » Mon, 13. May 13, 12:37

elexis wrote:Because there is literally nothing more performance costing than 3d volumetric clouds.
Freelancer had it in 2003. Independence War 2 in 2001. Your point?

amtie
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Post by amtie » Mon, 13. May 13, 23:28

X3's nebula was the worst. Because you could see the starry skybox THROUGH the nebula... That alone screws it up.

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Post by BGrey » Tue, 14. May 13, 03:26

I always liked the nebula in freespace 2, it was always an epic experience with every shadow freaking. Then finally you see a shadow that actually is a capital ship, made clear when the giant beam cannon fires past you. X3 on the other hand just kind of had me squinting.

Zloth
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Post by Zloth » Tue, 14. May 13, 03:52

Nebula could be MIGHTY cool if they threw physics into it. A bowshock in front of and beside your ship (kinda like a boat wake but in 3D), a clear area in the back, have the particles expand outward if you heat them up with laser weapons.... Maybe you could even have the particles all headed away from whatever star tossed them out? Then space stations could have neat effects, too.

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elexis
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Post by elexis » Tue, 14. May 13, 17:29

If we were to do dynamic volumetric clouds then we would be looking at either really bad quality or 1frame/hour speeds.

Freelancer did have nice nebulas, although from what I can tell* it made use of the same tech as the X3 nebulas, and that the X3 nebulas are actually more detailed, with the main issue being an unfortunate design choice regarding object visibility. I agree that the Freelancer 2 nebulas did look awesome, although microsoft stabbed that one in the heart before we got much info (or a game).

Also remember that the is nothing remotely realistic about nebulas. Real nebulas are hundreds of stars if not galaxies wide and are made up of such low density particles that if you were inside a nebula would wouldn't even visually notice it.

On the other hand, eye candy!


*I am currently capped out on internet and haven't personally played freelancer, so I have had limited ability to research this

Nanook
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Post by Nanook » Tue, 14. May 13, 19:23

Zloth wrote:Nebula could be MIGHTY cool if they threw physics into it....
That would be 'funsics', not physics. In the real world, there's no such thing as these so-called nebulae. In the real world, if you were in one, you'd have to have very sensitive instruments to detect the particles in it. You certainly couldn't see it as 'fog'. Real nebulae are hundreds and thousands of lightyears across, and the only reason you see them as gas clouds is because they're a relatively small arc in the sky. If you were actually in one, all you might see is a coloring of the sky. So sorry, no bowshocks and no hiding in it either.

I hate the game nebulae. They're so unspacelike. :evil:
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

g1i1ch
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Post by g1i1ch » Tue, 14. May 13, 19:35

That would be 'funsics', not physics. In the real world, there's no such thing as these so-called nebulae. In the real world, if you were in one, you'd have to have very sensitive instruments to detect the particles in it. You certainly couldn't see it as 'fog'. Real nebulae are hundreds and thousands of lightyears across, and the only reason you see them as gas clouds is because they're a relatively small arc in the sky. If you were actually in one, all you might see is a coloring of the sky. So sorry, no bowshocks and no hiding in it either.

I hate the game nebulae. They're so unspacelike. Evil or Very Mad
Yeah but it's even worse. Telescopes use a long exposure technique and only accept certain wavelengths of light at a time. Many that the human eye can't see. Also worse, 99.99% of all nebula photos are actually colored to make them look better. They select certain wavelengths of light and pick a color to represent it. So crazily colored nebula don't really exist. Lastly nearly all nebulae are too dim for the human eye to see. The long exposure allows scientists to see what's actually too dark. If you came across a nebula in real space all you would see is blackness covering stars or really dark grey.

It actually saddens me because I thought space actually looked like this at some places. This fantasy space is featured in any space show, movie, or game. Even Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Homeworld, and Eve Online. But none of it is real... I honestly don't want colorful nebulae, they're cool, but they perpetuate a false fantasy image of space that doesn't actually exist.

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Post by greypanther » Tue, 14. May 13, 22:05

Totaly agree with you Nanook! :thumb_up:

@g1i1ch: true, but we can still see some of the aspects of nebulae, at a very great distance, with just the simplest of optics; no fiddling with it; no long exposure. Though you are certainly right about the colour. The objects above are not all colourless however. :) :wink:

I will not play Rebirth until some of the faults I see already are modded out. It will drive me crazy otherwise. ( Or should that be crazier? :roll: )

Night Nord
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Post by Night Nord » Tue, 14. May 13, 22:36

Well, you may probably fly into some dust-field/gas-field from the forming planet and it will look like nebulas described. But I'm not sure you'll be able to fly out of there though =)

amtie
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Post by amtie » Tue, 14. May 13, 23:56

g1i1ch and greypanther, you do realise this is a space sim with aliens, shields, jump gates and what-not? This is a space sim that isn't aiming to be hard sci-fi. Hence the nebulae.

A hard sci-fi space sim will be like KSP but with guns (anyone read Through struggle, the Stars by John Lumpkin or something?).

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Post by greypanther » Wed, 15. May 13, 00:32

Hardly amtie, neither heard of him or his book. :roll:
However I find the whole idea of the " fog " , just bloody annoying, regardless of the science, or facts or anything else. Annoying. Silly to the point of being a 12 year old's idea about space. If anything like in TC/AP, even remotely, I will not buy until a modder removes it. I find it that annoying. Understand better now? :P

As well as the fog, there is a similar issue with the stupid cockpit as demonstrated on the released vids. I hates it. Just my opinion you understand, again regardless of any science etc. :roll:
isn't aiming to be hard sci-fi. Hence the nebulae.
Its a very soft sci fi indeed. :roll:

g1i1ch
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Post by g1i1ch » Wed, 15. May 13, 00:44

g1i1ch and greypanther, you do realise this is a space sim with aliens, shields, jump gates and what-not? This is a space sim that isn't aiming to be hard sci-fi. Hence the nebulae.

A hard sci-fi space sim will be like KSP but with guns (anyone read Through struggle, the Stars by John Lumpkin or something?).
Well I'm not calling out the devs or anything. The game looks pretty good regardless and this is definitely not going to keep me from buying it.

I realize this is just a game. What I'm lamenting really is that we lack a good option for a realistic visual experience of space and that it adds fuel to the fire of this false image of space. I just found out about this a few weeks ago. I really did think there were really colorful places in space and it was a bit depressing to find out. I just find it a bit upsetting that out of all the media that takes place in space little to none portray how it looks accurately. It seems like Gravity might do it realistically at least. It's really overused if you think about it, everyone does it.

After realizing the reality of it I'm wondering why no one does it. Making a real dark space with only slight colors and huge dark nebula fog that you can get lost in would make a pretty cool cold ominous experience. In a X universe game that would be pretty cool. It would have an ancient and alone feeling that chills.

[spell check screw up]

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