Welcome to X2 the new SPACE COMBAT GAME

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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Lucrativus
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Welcome to X2 the new SPACE COMBAT GAME

Post by Lucrativus » Wed, 21. Jul 04, 00:39

I started with X-BTF and have progressed through the different games developed by Egosoft, playing hundreds and hundreds of hours on both X-BTF and X-Tension and a lot of hours in X2 (but not as many as the others).

I am a trader at heart but I really don't mind a bit of a battle sometimes, defending my property or ships. I even enjoyed working towards and completing the big battle with the Xenon in the earlier game.

But, since the 1•4 patch, as far as I am concerned, The Trading side of the game is a joke. The fighting was bad enough with 1•3 but impossible in 1•4.

It is obvious that Egosoft have listened to all the fighter orientated players and moved the gameplay way too far towards combat. The 1•4 patch has made it impossible to stay away from heavy fighting. You are forced into pitched battles with Khaak all over the universe and now they are even harder to get rid of than before. The Khaak came into the game far too early, their entry into X space should have been triggered when you reached a certain (combat) level, not ten minutes into the game before you could even partly build your empire. I won't even mention the plot, that really was a joke.

Now, we are told, there will be a massive Xenon invasion. Judging by what has happened so far, that will be about 30 minutes into the game, although If you take into account what happened with the Khaak, I am surprised it hasn't happened yet.

I know the fighters amongst you will probably flame me for this post, but I don't care and I, for one, will certainly NOT be buying any more of the Egosoft Space Battle programs. I do not want to spend all my time blowing things up and 'CAPPING' (what a stupid expression, only a few more letters and you have CAPTURING).

It is also interesting that most of the posters on the forum nowadays are the combat people, hardly ever any posts from the more peaceable Trading players, perhaps they are in the same frame of mind that I am.

I think the script facility is great but it seems to be mainly used for the wrong purposes (my apologies to the great script writers who wrote the Trading, accountancy and other peaceable scripts, they did a marvellous job). The script engine makes it very easy to generate a massive fortune, massive fleets of ships, change your ranking to the highest, all in the space of a couple of hours. All that instead of EARNING your way through the Universe.

Thanks Egosoft for ruining (for me at least) a brilliant space trading game.

I now think it is time for X2 to go onto the played and forget shelf. I really did have high hopes for this game.
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Post by Constipated_Vigilante » Wed, 21. Jul 04, 00:44

I didn't read your whole post, but trading gets boring after awhile, and the combat oriented people have probably had their share of trading, and decided to take the more dangerous path. Many people have built factories alongside their more dangerous ventures against xenon/khaak/pirates. Combat is more fun, though, than just trading commodities between stations. You can still play your game as a trader, though, but you'll need OOS defenders and at least a turret on the back of your TS. Whoever said the universe was a friendly place, or should be?
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Post by Lucrativus » Wed, 21. Jul 04, 00:48

Constipated_Vigilante wrote:I didn't read your whole post, but trading gets boring after awhile, and the combat oriented people have probably had their share of trading, and decided to take the more dangerous path. Many people have built factories alongside their more dangerous ventures against xenon/khaak/pirates. Combat is more fun, though, than just trading commodities between stations. You can still play your game as a trader, though, but you'll need OOS defenders and at least a turret on the back of your TS. Whoever said the universe was a friendly place, or should be?
And how do you earn your credits in order to buy all these fancy fighters and protection to start off with. The Khaak start taking yourhard earned ships out almost straight away. I do not use scripts to generate credits or ships and find it almost impossible to play a straight game, for me it takes the fun out of the game.
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Post by The_Abyss » Wed, 21. Jul 04, 00:48

Scripting is open to any sort of modification - not just giving out large amounts of cash etc.

I trade far more than I fight - 1.4 just means that you have to be more careful when you do, and give decent protection. That's why I re-started - my old 1.3 trade empire would never have stood up to 1.4 conditions. Starting afresh, I can prepare.
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Post by Tsar_of_Cows » Wed, 21. Jul 04, 00:52

Where are you placeing factories? I have nearly 20 factories, and I havent lost a single transport for several hundred gameplay hours....

I only fight because i choose to, there is money in bounty hunting and i go for it, but my trade empire makes money in the background, and I barely have to do anything....



As for khaak being everywhere... let me tell you a little story;

i decided to check outthe capping Khaak m3s in 1.4. it took me over half an hour to find one khaak ship. And I started looking in Omicron Lyrae and found one in Farnham's Legend.

I capped it.

the end.

I only have one sector defense ship and thats a Hydra in Ore Belt.

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Post by VincentTH » Wed, 21. Jul 04, 01:01

As for the Xenon invasion, that is a BBS script, and as such, the invasion is triggered only when you accept the the mission.

I, personally, think that the improvement in AI combat in v1.4 is good, and is not way overdone. I can still kill almost everything from my trusty Orinoco even though I died a few times (but that's why there are Salvage Insurance and reload in the game)

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Post by frymaster » Wed, 21. Jul 04, 01:12

also, the patch has included sector patrols which continually scour the galaxy of khaak. (see tsar of cows post)

compared to every other game of this type I can think of (elite, frontier etc.) there are more chances to opt-out of combat. It is VERY easy to see enemies gunning for you and make a beeline in the opposite direction (or towards the nearest station) The fact that the AI rarely maxes out speed in ships helps this also.

The sector patrols make things easier for the budding empire-builder, and for the advanced empire builder, well, you needed OOSD in 1.3, you still need it (but not as much) in 1.4, so no difference.

lastly, the improved AI affects all ships including yours. Thus, if you feel you must battle, you can bring along wingmen secure in the knowledge they will make a difference

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Post by Lorien » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 20:57

Everyone seems to have missed the point of Lucrativus' post. Before 1.4, all the X-based games were trading-oriented with a little combat thrown in for those of you who wanted to alleviate the annoyance of the Xenon or the Pirates. Now it's more a case of a trading-oriented game with a lot of combat thrown in as the Khaak can spawn in anywhere and 90% of the time they make a beeline straight for any of your ships, ignoring all the other ships around you.

Yes, we have sector patrols now but these wander away so far from their initial sectors that (for example) the Argon Prime sector patrol and be in Cloudbase South East and the damned Khaak spawn in Herron's Nebula and they can't do a thing about it.

I'm in two minds at the moment as to whether or not to implement the 'anti-Khaak' script which obliterates all of them everytime they spawn anywhere.

Some of you will no doubt jump on me now and say that I should have wingmen and sector patrols of my own for out-of-sector defenses. Whoopy-doo. OOS is pure number crunching on the game's part and purely down to random chance. Wingmen may be improved in 1.4 but if all I want to do is to trade my way around the universe, why should I be hampered with them? Yes, nobody said space would or should be a safe environment but for everyone to be gunning just for you seems a little much.

Where Egosoft fell down with the Khaak (apart from fetching them in too early into the plot which was just there to keep the combat-oriented people happy as they wouldn't have the mental capacity to work there way through a game based in space without a little bang-bang to keep them happy) was that they should never have had them appear in President's End and destroy that sector. They should have had them start to appear in the distant sectors - random attacks by unknown ships, etc. with a slow build-up of the plotline to the big battle in Omicron Lyrae and keep the initial sectors fairly safe. They could have had the odd Khaak cluster appear in the sector, fly around on a bit of a reconnasiance run and leap out again, leaving you to wonder just who the hell they were. This would have been especially well done, plot-wise, if it had been the big Khaak cruisers and battleships that nobody could take on.

Hey Bernd, BalaGi, BurnIt, and others over in Germany, here's an idea for the expansion pack - why not give the player an option of how aggressive they want the Pirates, Xenon and Khaak to be? We could have various levels...
Quiet: They fly through the universe on their own missions and only bother you if you bother them first
Normal: They fly through the universe and occasionally harrass you or other ships around them
Aggressive: They attack anyone they feel like on a regular basis.
This would allow those you prefer combat to choose the latter level whilst for those of us who just prefer to fly around the universe and immerse ourselves in the idea of flying around in space the luxury of doing this.


Yes, I know this has been a long post and for those of you who've known me on the forums for a while will know that I've hardly ever posted something as long as this. Feel free to disagree with anything I've said here as that's fine by me as there's a form of democracy here on these boards and we're all entitled to our opinions.


That's it. I'm outta here for a while now...
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Post by Grox » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 21:06

I do not want to spend all my time blowing things up and 'CAPPING' (what a stupid expression, only a few more letters and you have CAPTURING).
well you see, with capping, theres 2 consecutive p's so its quicker to say capping, rather than capturing with the letters on the keyboard being spaced out the way they are.

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Post by Lorien » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 21:10

Grox wrote:
I do not want to spend all my time blowing things up and 'CAPPING' (what a stupid expression, only a few more letters and you have CAPTURING).
well you see, with capping, theres 2 consecutive p's so its quicker to say capping, rather than capturing with the letters on the keyboard being spaced out the way they are.
That's all well and good but if you're going to abbreviate capturing then the correct form is cap'ing.

The reason that the 'word' capping has become so widespread around here is that there's a lot of kiddies playing this game (and I mean people still at school) who speak but don't understand English and can't use the correct forms of the language (and they can't spell either).
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Post by esd » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 21:14

You CAN operate peacefully in X² 1.4 - I have spent a lot of time in my unarmed Boron Dolphin, flying it around personally picking up BBS missions. I have an Orinoco as a wingman, but he's never needed to protect me.

Back when I first started, I managed to keep the Khaak at bay for a VERY long time. They don't come in on a timer, they come in when you reach certain conditions, some of which are: owning 2+ factories, going above "Harmless" in combat rating, and having been to President's End.

X² is not more combat orientated than XT (where the Xenon and the pirates would wander the systems), you just have more choice in how you do it.
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Post by veelad » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 21:21

I think the game is just right, ive just experienced the first massive khaak attack in PE since 1.4, and they have obliterated half the sector including the race patrol ships.

I have many factories in there, and I like to trade dangerously, the new more agressive xenon, khaak, pirates add more excitement in my mind, as I now have to really think about what to do to protect my investments.

I am trying to lay traps, placing laser towers around empty ship hulks (one near every khaak spawning gate in PE) and away from my factories to attract the khaak away and give me time to call on larger defence forces.

I dont know if this will work, but i get great enjoyment in trying to fool the enemy.

Bit of the old dunkirk spirit, thats whats called for :D

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Post by Silver-Hawk » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 21:22

Mate, I am forced to queitly inform you, you are now ranting about the use of the word capping. No, really. And capping is a real word anyway. As in to put a cap on something. And i don't think the comments about 'people still at school' was particuaraly releveant or poignant.

Anyway, if the Khaak bother you that much, script them out. Tbh, I did it once a while ago. It sucked, I changed back. You might just miss them eventually :roll:

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Post by James_2k » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 21:24

IMO your just as bad as those who only want fighting (and use psgs :)). i like the game to be as realistic as possible in terms of the setting (excepting physics) so trading is good, but it is a dangerous universe, if you venture out of the home sectors then you will hit problems. thats only realistic, 1.4 has made the AI more human in that it can hit you, do you prefer the gibbering wrecks of 1.3?

trading isnt all about buying and selling, its about protecting your assets and finding the best trade runs, even if those runs go through enemy sectors. it just makes it all the more tense!

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Post by Lorien » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 21:26

Silver-Hawk wrote:Mate, I am forced to queitly inform you, you are now ranting about the use of the word capping. No, really. And capping is a real word anyway. As in to put a cap on something.
I never said capping wasn't a word, just the wrong form that people were using. You got it right when you say that it's to put a cap on something but not when you are capturing something.
As for the other comments I made, personally how I feel at the moment I don't give a s**t.
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Re: Welcome to X2 the new SPACE COMBAT GAME

Post by SevenSword » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 21:39

Lucrativus wrote: It is also interesting that most of the posters on the forum nowadays are the combat people, hardly ever any posts from the more peaceable Trading
Thats because there is nothing to discuss about trading and there is nothing to trade (besides EC perhaps).

I think that not only has moved the game more to the combat side (which I don't find to bad, because the former X games lacked in this area, you had little to do with your combat fleet) but it has also moved more to station building.

I remember exploring the universe in X-T finding a crystal fab now and then or a other fab where I had the good opportunity to buy cheap crystals and sold them with a fair amount of profit. It felt good, was rewarding and was fun.

After starting X2 I was shocked how messed up the economy is.

There is hardly any station which has a stock more than 0 or at least an amount of goods which would be profitable to buy (besides EC perhaps). You have to supply your SPP by tradings stations (!).

The eco in X-T wasn't the best, but in X2 its only ugly.

But fortunately there are enough people out there, who don't mind building thier 10000 SPP as long they make 10 billions a hour.

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Post by Dungeoncrawler » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 21:42

I always hate to see someone not enjoying a game. It's bad for the people whom developed it (time/money spent), and it's bad for the person whom bought the title(time/money spend). But to the comment directly...I don't remember how much playing time I have under my belt (not allot, but not a newb either), but I have only had my TS ships attacked once since I started. I too trade most of the time. But for the most part, combat only happens when I usually initiate it. Please don't think I am calling the legitimacy of your concerns into question, for I am not. But I have a decent amount of playing time in, and have not been bothered by allot of 'unwanted' combat. Hope you work things out...it would be a shame to lose you as a X2 player. Good-luck.

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Post by lLongshanks » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 21:49

I mostly agree
I bought X2 for the trade and station building haveing the biggest empire ever seen and getting the universe ecconomy up and running was my goal.
While i do like a good combat sim X2 isnt one.
The combat is far too basic and very very dull.
It is more a chore than fun. I dont buy and play games to get so bored i end up reading a book.
1.4 has made the Khaak much faster at taking out transporters and even sector defence. Forcing peace loving guys to participate in the section of the game they really dont like.
Scripts I use.

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Re: Welcome to X2 the new SPACE COMBAT GAME

Post by Azzkicka » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 21:58

SevenSword wrote:
Lucrativus wrote: It is also interesting that most of the posters on the forum nowadays are the combat people, hardly ever any posts from the more peaceable Trading
Thats because there is nothing to discuss about trading and there is nothing to trade (besides EC perhaps).

I think that not only has moved the game more to the combat side (which I don't find to bad, because the former X games lacked in this area, you had little to do with your combat fleet) but it has also moved more to station building.

I remember exploring the universe in X-T finding a crystal fab now and then or a other fab where I had the good opportunity to buy cheap crystals and sold them with a fair amount of profit. It felt good, was rewarding and was fun.

After starting X2 I was shocked how messed up the economy is.

There is hardly any station which has a stock more than 0 or at least an amount of goods which would be profitable to buy (besides EC perhaps). You have to supply your SPP by tradings stations (!).

The eco in X-T wasn't the best, but in X2 its only ugly.

But fortunately there are enough people out there, who don't mind building thier 10000 SPP as long they make 10 billions a hour.
I agree with most of this post

There is nothing to trade in X2 because almost every single factory has low stock. I remember back in the days of X-tension where you could jump around the X-universe in your TL with a fleet of TS buying up all the cheap resources and selling them where they were in high demand.

But in X2 every product everywhere is in high demand which makes everything worthless to trade except for very small profits. There are a few resources like SPPs and occasionally Silicon and Ore which you can buy low but every other resource at the factories is almost always high priced wherever you go.

It’s really unfortunate too because the pure trading aspect of the game was one the nice features in X-tension, and now with X2 the only way to trade making lots of money is to build factories.

However I do disagree with the statement that SPPs are the only factory worth building because that is simply not true. SPPs do make the most profit but that doesn’t mean other factories are unprofitable or even not worth building.

When you think about it the economy in freelancer is kinda of better. Even though the prices are static at least you are able to buy low and sell high which in X2 has become pretty much impossible for most resources. Unless of course your build your own factories. Also you really had to search out the hidden factories and the best routes to be able to sell for that ultimate high.

My biggest wish for the expansion pack is for egosoft to fix the economy and give us more options in the way of trading/empire building.

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Post by Scarecrow » Sat, 24. Jul 04, 22:10

So far I'm pleased with the balance of trade(factories)/combat. I fight pretty much when I chose too.

I am mostly into stable Empire building, exploiting the hell out of those big empty spots in the economy. I think the GalTrader/Trade Station combo can be worked very well once I've played with it for a bit.

My combat rating and trade rating are about the same levels so that would indicate a fairly balanced game.

......and I still need to do the Ore Belt mission.

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