Adventures in wing command

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Timsup2nothin
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Adventures in wing command

Post by Timsup2nothin » Wed, 29. Aug 18, 20:19

I determined that I lack certain skills. Mostly skills that I have deemed to be of little merit. But, to be a better rounded player I sometimes take it into my head to do different things.

The latest: I've never been good at commanding combat. My approach is always to fly in, by myself, and deal with the situation. If I can't solve the problem that way, then I just need a bigger, badder, better armed ship. But wouldn't it be cool to loaf along in some big capital beast, directing wings of fighters to eliminate targets? Of course it would. And how hard can it be, really?

So I have this save. It was some Argon start, and basically all I did was plow through the plot as fast as I could to pick up the Nova Prototype, Centaur, Advanced Disco, and the Ammon Prototype. I did a few side missions, mostly of no consequence, but one that involved collecting a derelict Cerberus that I didn't give back. I love this save, because it's like a start with a full spectrum of ships and no particular commitments, other than a Cerberus that still lacks a lot of its potential firepower.

Loaded into the Cerberus are three Deca.Cefa drones that were a plot prize, and I figured they would be a good way to practice the wing commander approach. Doing missions to build up funds, spending said funds as fast as I get them on guns for the frigate, surely opportunities will come along.

Sure enough, I get tasked with some ship returns that I'm not really interested in returning so I send them to park in Bala Gi's Joy. A big Dolphin freighter at the SPP, and an Asp at the pirate base. The freighter will be good for undocking and transporting e-cells to the frigate, and the Asp...well...okay, I have no particular use for the Asp, I just wanted it.

Anyway, I figure there will be two mobs of cops acting stupid, and this is the perfect opportunity to try out my wing. It's like kindergarten. I can send my three Decas to swoop on the cops one by one, monitor them for damage, practice drawing them away to safety, switching targets...all that stuff.

So I launch them at the first cop and one of them promptly pastes into the side of the Cerberus.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

Alan Phipps
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Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 29. Aug 18, 20:34

Did you remember to close the pilots' bar at least 12 hours before the mission start? :D

Or perhaps the pilot just couldn't live with attacking honest and diligent members of law enforcement (who all no doubt have loving families) whilst they were protecting the public from unscrupulous arch-baddies.

(AKA: Auto-Pillock rules, OK!)
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

jlehtone
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Re: Adventures in wing command

Post by jlehtone » Wed, 29. Aug 18, 22:53

Timsup2nothin wrote:I determined that I lack certain skills. Mostly skills that I have deemed to be of little merit.
Almost, but no quite entirely unlike:
"a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired avoided over a very long career."
:wink:
Timsup2nothin wrote:So I launch them at the first cop and one of them promptly pastes into the side of the Cerberus.
I travel in Dragon. Xenon were approaching Scale Plate Green, so I called in Python, hopped in, did deal with the attack, received good reward (by Teladi scale), recalled Dragon, and teleported into it.

First sight on the (overtuned) Corvette's bridge was the side of the Python, right in front, point blank, with 250m/s on our throttle. The next sight had words "The End" in it.

:headbang: quite literally. You, at least, had the luxury of thicker shields.


Follow me ... the gerbils hear. The gerbils obey. The concept of comprehension has little merit among their ranks. (I have another tale already brewing.)



It is refreshing. The change from being the one, who charges the photons, into one who simply sends memos. Quite different challenge. Who said that sufficient amount of Tomahawks is the ubiquitous solution?
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
There is no Box. I am the sand.

Timsup2nothin
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Re: Adventures in wing command

Post by Timsup2nothin » Wed, 29. Aug 18, 23:32

jlehtone wrote: First sight on the (overtuned) Corvette's bridge was the side of the Python, right in front, point blank, with 250m/s on our throttle. The next sight had words "The End" in it.

:headbang: quite literally. You, at least, had the luxury of thicker shields.
And low speeds. Even the idiot drone survived, and a little work with the repair laser after I dispatched the cops myself had things right as rain. Now I'm looking for a similar opportunity, and this time I plan to turn the starboard side towards the target and stop the ship before I hit the launch button.

jlehtone wrote:Who said that sufficient amount of Tomahawks is the ubiquitous solution?
HEY! That guy is FAMOUS!!!
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

jlehtone
Posts: 17114
Joined: Sat, 23. Apr 05, 21:42

Re: Adventures in wing command

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 30. Aug 18, 00:33

Timsup2nothin wrote:Now I'm looking for a similar opportunity, and this time I plan to turn the starboard side towards the target and stop the ship before I hit the launch button.
That dance move.

Terran Tokyo's do it all the time. They stop. Turn. Spit out some gerbils. Start moving. Stop. Suck the kids back in. Start moving again. On a good day I send comments that make the So you think you can dance? judges look like amateurs. On a bad day the Terrans cop out and jump to some Shipyard.


I have a Raptor with fighters. Fighters in two Wings. I like to call the Raptor to a party after a Terran Cartel has lost its Big Boys. Just to clean up.

On couple occasion now the Wings have been reluctant. The pilots rather stay at that bar than launch. One time the Terran fighters even got to scratching Raptor's hull before wings started to trickle out. Makes no difference whether I'm still in sector, or already OOS.

:gruebel: The Raptor does not dance. Or dances contemporary. No razzle dazzle 'em like I'd like. I know that it has good tubes and I've seen majestic Fly to sector (or was it back in X3R? :oops: )
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
There is no Box. I am the sand.

Timsup2nothin
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Thu, 30. Aug 18, 08:19

So the dance may look silly, but it does work. When the three stooges come launching out it is about all they can do to get roughly into formation without running into each other. If they are headed for a target off the starboard side they are headed away from the ship in more or less the direction they launched in. If the Cerberus is pointed towards the target they have to make a turn, while getting in formation and avoiding each other, and the turn puts them flying alongside the big wall presented by the frigate.

So, I have learned something, for what it is worth, and used my little drone squad to wreck a couple of pirate groups that were so intent on the station they were attacking that they could be picked off one by one.

Three on one they can snuff anything up to and including Nova Raiders without any significant lowering of their shields. On the one hand, that's kinda cool. On the other hand, on a good day I could have put these pirate groups down myself with a well armed Buster, and any day I could put them down with a Nova, so it isn't like there's anything gained by acquiring this skill...yet.

We'll see if it becomes more useful. Next up, I think, would be a small pirate flight of maybe four ships. See how the stooges do when everyone starts shooting back at the same time rather than patiently waiting for their turn.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

jlehtone
Posts: 17114
Joined: Sat, 23. Apr 05, 21:42

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 30. Aug 18, 17:55

What commands exactly? Are they a Wing wing?


One could choose one drone as a leader and give commands to that ship only. The other two could run the Attack target of leader. That way, when you tell the leader to attack someone, all three will attack almost at same time. Furthermore, if any of the formation becomes under attack, whole formation should focus on that enemy. (They did in X3R.)



What annoys me in the Tokyo is its shape, which particularly during the dance throws my turret gerbils off the mark.
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
There is no Box. I am the sand.

Timsup2nothin
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Thu, 30. Aug 18, 19:03

jlehtone wrote:What commands exactly? Are they a Wing wing?


One could choose one drone as a leader and give commands to that ship only. The other two could run the Attack target of leader. That way, when you tell the leader to attack someone, all three will attack almost at same time. Furthermore, if any of the formation becomes under attack, whole formation should focus on that enemy. (They did in X3R.)



What annoys me in the Tokyo is its shape, which particularly during the dance throws my turret gerbils off the mark.
They are in a wing. Being a matched set they all reach the target at about the same time anyway, so I can just use the wing "attack this guy" command. It does work really well against lone targets like you get with cops, or on defend station missions, where the rest of the targets wait their turn. Haven't found a more dynamic situation to try them in yet.

The only problem so far has been that "getting organized after launch" period, if I don't take measures to get the Cerberus out of their way.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

jlehtone
Posts: 17114
Joined: Sat, 23. Apr 05, 21:42

Post by jlehtone » Fri, 31. Aug 18, 22:28

Saw a "dynamic situation" in Grand Exchange: 1 J, 2 Q, 4 P, and fighters all over. It is rare to see that many. Did not look like migration/reinforcement.
No Teladi RRF either.

Volunteer! Did call in two Raptors and one Python. Three Nova Raider wings. A Q nearly ate a Raptor, but its Novas did eventually chip the beast out.

A loss of about then Raiders. One by the Xenon J.
One by Stock Exchange. If you think that Wall Street bankers are brutal, then stay out of Teladi sectors.
Rest by the Raptors.
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
There is no Box. I am the sand.

Timsup2nothin
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Fri, 31. Aug 18, 23:14

That's a bit more dynamic than I had in mind.

I took a xenon patrol mission and sent the heavy drone wing out after pairs of Ls, which they dispatched handily, while I took out the Ps and Pxs. I certainly made more profitttssss than I would have made without them, since I probably would have either not caught up to the Ls before the natives got them, or would have missed out on a P in the process.

I'm getting the hang of monitoring their progress without fatally breaking my concentration, but I am in a Cerberus so the only fatal break in concentration I might have had would involve crashing into the Elephant that the Xenon seemed to think was their most important target.

Before I get much further along I think I'm going to shelve these guys and replace them with Nova Raiders. Pending the PHQ, which is well down the road, these Decas are basically irreplaceable, so I'm inclined to avoid losses. I have to say though that the increased profits aren't enough to cover any losses. It would take a whole lot of boosted patrol rewards to cover the cost of an equipped Nova Raider.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

DrSuperEvil
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Post by DrSuperEvil » Sat, 1. Sep 18, 03:51

If you are having issues against large ships consider equipping the Novas with some Tornado missiles.

Timsup2nothin
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Sat, 1. Sep 18, 05:47

DrSuperEvil wrote:If you are having issues against large ships consider equipping the Novas with some Tornado missiles.
Good tip, I'll make a note. I haven't tried anything against large ships yet. And I'm also still using the Deca.Cefa trio for my heavy drones.

I got a little sidetracked setting up what will grow into a universe dominating mineral distribution net. I was planning to avoid heavy trading and pursue a more militant program until I made a final decision about who my long term friends were, but my little MilSec trading operation that was supposed to keep the CIG supply flowing got dumped when the SPP blew up. I was left with a fair number of underemployed pilots, and figured that if I set up in a single gate unknown sector that even if I end up declaring war on the Argon (immediate neighbors) I'll be able to make it work.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

DrSuperEvil
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri, 2. Mar 18, 13:13

Post by DrSuperEvil » Sat, 1. Sep 18, 14:37

In the PHQ the Xenon J is hard to beat as a carrier due to the fast production times while there are several M4s that as spammable like the Enhanced Pericles, OTAS Solano, Pirate Buzzard Vanguard and Pirate Scorpion.


With the nova consider PBGs as the main weapon since those mince larger ships at close range.

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Sat, 1. Sep 18, 17:06

Tornado is a dumbfire (yet it cannot be fired, if sector has no foes :? ) with multiple warheads. How good is the gerbil aim?

I load Novas with Tempests. Even if the initial target (fighter) vanishes, the Tempest can hurt somebody else.


If you do build/maintain a fleet, you need supplies. You can obviously gather/trap the NPC production, but should you end in war, some production capability of your own would be wise. There are faction monopolies in X-Universe on who do sell station construction kits for certain armament. Therefore, I would delay the war declarations until I have a stash.
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
There is no Box. I am the sand.

Timsup2nothin
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Sat, 1. Sep 18, 20:51

jlehtone wrote:Tornado is a dumbfire (yet it cannot be fired, if sector has no foes :? ) with multiple warheads. How good is the gerbil aim?

I load Novas with Tempests. Even if the initial target (fighter) vanishes, the Tempest can hurt somebody else.


If you do build/maintain a fleet, you need supplies. You can obviously gather/trap the NPC production, but should you end in war, some production capability of your own would be wise. There are faction monopolies in X-Universe on who do sell station construction kits for certain armament. Therefore, I would delay the war declarations until I have a stash.
Yeah, I'm planning to have my own production capability before I do anything crazy. Including definitely have my PHQ up and running to produce whatever I end up using for drones.

My trading distraction is proving interesting...more interesting than I anticipated.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

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