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Few simple questions of a newbie
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Triaxx2





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PostPosted: Wed, 29. Aug 18, 23:08    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Maybe, but I usually see them after the factories have been removed. Usually by GOD, occasionally by me.


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Szutyo





Joined: 19 Aug 2018



PostPosted: Sat, 1. Sep 18, 12:45    Post subject: Re: More Reply with quote Print

Bill Huntington wrote:
Pirates. [...] But soon you'll observe that having a bad pirate reputation will make the AP universe unsafe for you but especially for all your traders and even your stations. Just restart a new game when this hits you in the face. Sometimes you have to kill them but do missions for them when you do. A good reputation with the pirates pays off with few attacks and other ways too. The Yaki even more so.


When I start a new game in AP, Pirates are Neutral to everybody except me.
My notoriety value with them is -3, status is Enemy and Notoriety Points is -10000, according to a script.
This is right from the very first second of a new game.
Is this normal?
How am I supposed to have a good rep with them when I start so low, they attack me on sight and all pirate assets are red on my radar and map.


I have another question about installing mods that change some values in a ship's property, like max speed or cargo capacity.
Do I have to start a new game for something like this to take effect or will my already bought ships have the new value, maybe only the ships bought after the mods activation will have the changed stats?


edit: Also, would someone point me to a good link where I can read about the x3 background, story of TC and AP?

Thank you!

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DrSuperEvil





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PostPosted: Sat, 1. Sep 18, 14:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

There are only two starting scenarios where the pirates are not hostile at the start of the game. Pirate Bases (eg. Astraeu's Clouds) still allow the player to dock until -4 while all other pirate owned stations follow normal docking restrictions.

At -3 race rank you can still get rep boosts from missions. Pirate mission givers will spawn on stations owned by other races within 2 jumps of a pirate owned sector. Freedom's Reach is good because the only station is within comm distance of the jump gate making it easy to force missions to spawn by repeatedly going through the gate. Pirates usually give courier (needs a Springblossom), taxi (needs a Cargo Lifesupport System) and wares needed (up to 150 food, usually Majaglit) type missions so are quite easy to complete.

Alternatively you can set up an illegals complex in Hatikvah's Faith 40km above a gate and let disguised pirates and other NPC ships buy the spaceweed/fuel generating pirate rep with each transaction and a bonus if it is a pirate making the purchase.

The third option is to do boarding and capping of NPC ships in pirate owned sectors sacrificing some race rank of other races to gain pirate race rank.

In general I jump between Freedom's Reach and Company Pride with a Kestrel/Discoverer and do taxi missions. You can get pirates friendly within 30 mins this way if you have not shot any up (ie fight missions).

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jlehtone



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PostPosted: Sat, 1. Sep 18, 17:22    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

DrSuperEvil wrote:
Pirate Bases (eg. Astraeu's Clouds) still allow the player to dock until -4

Pirates and Teladi value credits more than following the official embargo policy. Easy to please too.


Faction Military does eagerly attack stations owned by Pirates, even in foreign sectors. Hence the Bases tend to relocate rather quickly/frequently.

Trading Stations do have often "Bring me N units of Y." Pirate clients. Some Y are illegal, but some -- like the Massom -- legit.


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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Sat, 1. Sep 18, 21:27    Post subject: Re: More Reply with quote Print

Szutyo wrote:


When I start a new game in AP, Pirates are Neutral to everybody except me.
My notoriety value with them is -3, status is Enemy and Notoriety Points is -10000, according to a script.
This is right from the very first second of a new game.
Is this normal?
How am I supposed to have a good rep with them when I start so low, they attack me on sight and all pirate assets are red on my radar and map.

Thank you!


Pirates like smugglers. If you look at the guide in my sig it will tell you about how to "trap" a product. I almost always set such a trap on a space fuel distillery, which gives me a reliable supply of space fuel.

Fast moving ships with CLS pilots can make runs from the trap to pirate bases in race space, which buy at max price and make this operation a high percentage profit, although the throughput is too low for it to be high yield. What it does provide is an automated steady drip of pirate good will.

Avoid conflicts with pirates, like station defense missions and such, and after a while they will be more tolerant. Once they reach a reasonable level the steady drip will compensate for the occasional conflicts.


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Szutyo





Joined: 19 Aug 2018



PostPosted: Mon, 10. Sep 18, 20:04    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I sold about 1000 Space Fuels and bought a lot of Sunrise Flowers at a Pirate Base in Atreus' Clouds but didn't gain any notoriety with the Pirates.
How come?
EDIT: Actually, I just noticed that a lot of times I don't gain notoriety with any other race either, only my main player rank increases.
While I'm exploring in a fast ship I manually remote trade with a TS and try to gain some money and rep, but I just noticed that the rep gain is only occasional.
This seems serious, or I may be missing something basic here.

Is there any negative effect or disadvantage of gaining Economic and Fight player rank?
Maybe there is something I don't know about and would be good to slow down the rate of increase of these with a script.


Timsup2nothin, the trap you mentioned is basically a station camper ship that is sitting there and constantly buying the selected ware for a set price?


Will npc traders try to "make a profit"?
For example if I build a Solar Power Plant and set my selling price to 19 cr, will npcs only
buy if they see an opportunity for 20 cr somewhere?
Or will they buy my Energy Cells for 19 and sell for 19 at a lot of factories that are "starving" even though they don't make any profit?
What is a good price to set so I make profit but also able to sell all my stock?


About how many Universe Traders is the maximum advised in the vanilla AP universe, if there is even such an amount?
I'm thinking that after a point they might start getting in each others way.


Thank you!

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jlehtone



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PostPosted: Mon, 10. Sep 18, 23:06    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

You check the notoriety via Script Editor? Not a single point change? Base sells Flowers at "average" price. That does not affect notoriety (much or at all).


Higher rank => higher paying generic missions. Some (generic/plot) missions scale enemies to Fight rank. I see no negative on that. Split


Yes, a camper.


NPC traders buy, if price is below average.
NPC traders sell, if price is above average. (Those that sell to Docks are special.)
Thus, they will always make at least 2 cr per unit (or die trying).

No, nobody comes to buy from your SPP, if the price is 19 cr (or 17 cr). You can assign trader to your SPP to "fly out and sell to the high bidders".

You can see from details of a Station, how many units of resources one cycle requires and how many products one cycle creates. You can thus compute, how much does it cost to create one unit of product (assuming you got the resources at their limit price).


Universe Traders can roam to Bad Places. That is not healthy.

Local Trader has (Sector,Jumps) setting. It will will trade within Jumps from the Sector.


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SirNukes





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PostPosted: Mon, 10. Sep 18, 23:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

jlehtone wrote:
NPC traders buy, if price is below average.
NPC traders sell, if price is above average. (Those that sell to Docks are special.)
Thus, they will always make at least 2 cr per unit (or die trying).

Free traders also have a 2% chance to buy above average or sell below average, but those cases are still limited to some random value (eg. buying ecells up to 17 credits), so getting them to buy at 19 credits would be super rare, even without local competition.

Dock traders also buy below average to stock their dock, but have a quirk where they only check the buy price when picking a station to buy from, not when arriving, so there is potential to crank up the price before they arrive to get them to pay extra. That would be a hassle to micro manage, but does make an argument for enabling price scaling (with a min of average -1) to slightly improve profits. This is one of the ways selling to NPC traders can lead to better profits than using your own traders.

Szutyo wrote:
About how many Universe Traders is the maximum advised in the vanilla AP universe, if there is even such an amount?
I'm thinking that after a point they might start getting in each others way.

UTs and STs have a shared blacklist. Once reaching level 11, when they pick a pair of stations to buy/sell between, the sectors with those stations get placed on the blacklist for 8 minutes. The blacklist is checked by UT/ST traders level 5+. They will also blacklist a sector if they see an enemy in it.

So, I'm thinking you should stop adding ST/UTs well before reaching 1 per 2 sectors in a region. 1 per 4 sectors might work okay as a rough upper limit.

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DrSuperEvil





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PostPosted: Tue, 11. Sep 18, 14:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Rank gains from trade seem to come in blocks with several trades giving nothing followed by a sudden jump in rank. Also buying at average price does not give a lot of race rank.

Fight and trade rank reduce the penalty NPC ships have on their equipment and pilot skill making them more effective. This is to give the player an advantage when starting. Fight rank also makes the spawns in the UFJD sector and from fight missions harder.

NPC traders try to make a profit. They will buy energy cells up to 17 credits to sell at 19. Higher trade rank makes NPCs make smarter deals.

In vanilla AP you can get up to 50 UTs before it becomes very slow to train new ones.

There is a blacklist for UTs in AP.

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hisazul





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PostPosted: Wed, 12. Sep 18, 09:06    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

As a new player I would advise against gaining trade and combat ranks too fast. It may look nice on paper but as a "newish" player you may end up being literally demolished by the system, X games are not really into hand holding.
Yes having obscene trade rank can make money making stupidly easy...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1505069804
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1502848494
But don't forget that any mission involving for instance, delivering X amount of ware like ore or ecells or space weed, etc usually average in 50k range... delivering 60 thousand ore is not as easy as it sounds, especially in 10 minutes.
Same thing applies to combat rank at some point you CANNOT get any combat mission that does not involve going against multiple capital ships. If all you have is a corvette... it is not going to be funny. However with combat rank, chances of you getting to that kind of rank while not having sufficient combat presence are... almost non-existent. Afk training some CLS pilots for a night and loosing a measly 30% combat rank may not sound that bad but repairing it, for me anyway, takes about 8-12 hours of sitting in xenon core sector endlessly mowing down xenon.

I'll also chime in on pirates a bit, you will always lose pirate reputation if you have empire of any kind. Pirates can always spawn hostile, which in turn can lead to them getting evaporated by something of yours which in turn switches pirates to foe status and that something will shoot them on sight even when they aren't hostile. In short juggling pirate reputation, especially in AP is a pain... most of combat missions pit you against pirates/yaki... especially at higher ranks. Yaki at least behave like a normal race so you don't constantly lose rep with them unless you actively kill them.

As far as UTs go... well... UTs have a tendency to trip over each other regardless of how many there are and they are dumb as a rock. They will try to fight xenon Q if they pass near it for instance... even if that makes 0 sense, they almost never actually run away, they are utterly illogical with pathfinding. And the bigger problem is that if you use CAGs, they will not really cut any slack to UT/ST they will undercut them left and right causing UTs to accumilate more and more unsold wares and spending more and more time doing nothing of use. But while you don't have stations UTs just make you money, you make an investment and it will pay for itself 99% of the time, having about 40ish should keep them all mostly busy and out of bad neighborhoods.. Only exception to that would be times when you seriously put the pain on xenon sectors, which causes xenon migrations which in turns makes your UTs drop like flies.


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jlehtone



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PostPosted: Wed, 12. Sep 18, 22:55    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

hisazul wrote:
Same thing applies to combat rank at some point you CANNOT get any combat mission that does not involve going against multiple capital ships. If all you have is a corvette... it is not going to be funny.

I just had to ... the last kills to reach Xtreme ... to do with a corvette. Ks and Js. Split

But yes, the grinding is quicker and less scary with larger guns.

PS. "any mission". Yes, you can: the Kill Convoy. Up to 4 TS ships to kill.


hisazul wrote:
However with combat rank, chances of you getting to that kind of rank while not having sufficient combat presence are... almost non-existent.

Same applies to the Trade rank. If you have higher rank, then you have received some serious credits. How you have used them is up to you.


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hisazul





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PostPosted: Thu, 13. Sep 18, 00:17    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

jlehtone wrote:
hisazul wrote:
Same thing applies to combat rank at some point you CANNOT get any combat mission that does not involve going against multiple capital ships. If all you have is a corvette... it is not going to be funny.

I just had to ... the last kills to reach Xtreme ... to do with a corvette. Ks and Js. Split

But yes, the grinding is quicker and less scary with larger guns.

PS. "any mission". Yes, you can: the Kill Convoy. Up to 4 TS ships to kill.


hisazul wrote:
However with combat rank, chances of you getting to that kind of rank while not having sufficient combat presence are... almost non-existent.

Same applies to the Trade rank. If you have higher rank, then you have received some serious credits. How you have used them is up to you.


Yeah I guess I forgot about convoy assassinations. 32 mil for 4 TS ships with 0 escorts even on X-Treme but the rest do scale not just in money you get.

In AP you can fish out trade ranks while having nothing really. It's one of those downsides of AP having shortcuts that let people that know what they are doing get where they want much quicker. Stock exchange is basically money printer and it does give you trade ranks Razz I mean for an ol X space dog, getting a TS and filling it full of nvidium less then an hour after starting a new game is... not really much of a task, vast majority of time would be spent on traveling and collecting rocks. After that you can just print credits. Downside part is that newer player can hear about those shortcuts and then end up where they should not be with little experience and knowledge to back them up.


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DrSuperEvil





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PostPosted: Thu, 13. Sep 18, 15:14    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

High trade rank and taxi/personnel transport missions has no down side.

High fight rank also means more salvage.

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