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Few simple questions of a newbie
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SirNukes





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu, 23. Aug 18, 04:15    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

OOS combat is not properly documented and has changed between TC and AP, so there can be a lot of confusion on how it works. I will try my best to help out based on my own understanding, but may not be 100% accurate either.

Honved wrote:

OOS combat is resolved at longer time intervals. The faster ship fires first, fires ALL of its guns once, and if the opponent survives, it then fires back with all of its own weapons.

I think the ship that fires first is whichever gets the first turn where it moves into range and fires. If two ships are heading for each other, the faster one is more likely to get that first attack, but it really depends on how positions line up. If only one ship is attacking and the other is doing some misc job, the attacker will get the first shot. A simple test: attack an idle Q with a Boreas; the Boreas will get a round of fire for free, and will only take its first damage on the second round.

Honved wrote:
Rate of fire does not matter, each gun fires only once.

Rate of fire is included in OOS damage calculation. If you mod a weapon to have 10x higher RoF, you will see 10x higher OOS damage. (I used to also think RoF might not matter, until I modded it to test it myself.)

DrSuperEvil wrote:

2: OOS combat is simplified in that lasers do not require energy to fire and are assumed to all have 10km range.

Range is generally ignored; ships move to within 500 meters and attack. Laser towers have extended range (Plasma Beam Cannon range + 500 meters), and I recall reading orbital platforms do as well (though I never owned one of those to motivate testing it, and didn't see anything for this in the code I've looked at).

DrSuperEvil wrote:
The damage dealt by lasers uses different values per second and ignores effects like multiple hit and fragmentation.

Multi-hit is somewhat factored in, since OOS bullet damage is set differently than IS. For instance, Plasma Burst Generator damage assumes 20x hits when OOS, bringing it up to around 2/3 of HEPT OOS damage.

DrSuperEvil wrote:
Each round of combat is every 10 seconds if you are not looking at the sector using the sector map and every 3 secdons if you are.

I think it is as pjknibbs said, 30 seconds when not watching, 5 seconds when watching. Or that is the intention; in practice, a round of combat occurs whenever the sector updates, which will be: when you open the sector map, 5 seconds after the last update if you are watching the sector map, 30 seconds after the last update if you stopped watching the sector map. Combat rounds are not adjusted for how much time actually passed.

This gives rise to some oddities, like rapidly opening/closing the sector map to greatly accelerate OOS combat, or shield regeneration overpowering weapon fire during 30 second rounds. In my experience, if a trader comes under attack and has a script that is capable of retreating (most trader scripts are), then you should avoid opening that trader's sector map and triggering another combat round. The trader has a much better chance of escaping if it can get a full 30 seconds to regenerate shields and move away or jump before the next combat round occurs.

(Side note: I have some test notes from a while back that experienced 60 second OOS combat rounds when not watching, though a recent retest was seeing 30 seconds. So I am not 100% sure on what was going on there.)


A couple other things worth mentioning:

A missile fired in an OOS combat round will suppress normal laser fire. Since one missile is often less damage (maybe drastically so) than several seconds of laser batter fire, you generally want to avoid equipping OOS ships with weaker missiles, and should probably avoid missiles on M1 or M2 ships altogether. Mosquitoes are okay; they have low enough damage to not be used for combat.

Traders that get attacked OOS may turn to fight if they are equipped with any lasers. Unarmed traders do a better job fleeing. This may be less of an issue with jump capable ships; I don't use those enough to really know.

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DrSuperEvil





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PostPosted: Thu, 23. Aug 18, 13:35    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Do not forget they hold the monopoly on Tractor Beam manufacture too.

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Triaxx2





Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu, 23. Aug 18, 13:46    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

While that's true, if you're actively engaged in piracy, waiting in Haktikvah's Faith for a High-Tech Trader heading for the north gate will eventually yield a bounty of Tractor Beams. Razz


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DrSuperEvil





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PostPosted: Thu, 23. Aug 18, 21:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

That is strange because OOS I find the defenders have the advantage since the opponent takes an update moving while my ships get a round of fire in.

OOS ships still take the same damage per unit time if viewed in the sector map or not but with longer intervals there is a higher chance to be able to jump to safety. I have encountered situations where if i use the sector map to try to jump a ship out it dies yet if I use the property menu it survives with same times in giving the commands.

I frequently raid argon TS ships in Hatikvah's Faith and never have had a tractor beam drop.

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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Thu, 23. Aug 18, 22:04    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

DrSuperEvil wrote:

I frequently raid argon TS ships in Hatikvah's Faith and never have had a tractor beam drop.


I drop a satellite or a scout ship where I can watch the TB factories and see who picks them up, then mark them for death. I get tractor beams by drop method in pretty much every game. One for me, sell the rest makes the effort of checking the sat every now and then worth while.


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DrSuperEvil





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PostPosted: Fri, 24. Aug 18, 00:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Assuming GOD does not remove all the factories.

Also that assumes the race you are pirating is at least neutral.

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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Fri, 24. Aug 18, 00:58    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

DrSuperEvil wrote:

Also that assumes the race you are pirating is at least neutral.


Confused

I don't follow this part.


The disappearing factories are a problem though. If they sit with a full inventory of TBs for too long I blow them up myself and try to find one in the wreckage.


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On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!
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DrSuperEvil





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PostPosted: Fri, 24. Aug 18, 11:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Very hard to have satellites in hostile sectors.

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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Fri, 24. Aug 18, 20:38    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

DrSuperEvil wrote:
Very hard to have satellites in hostile sectors.


Ah. Yeah, I use scout ships more than satellites. Drop in to take a look, fly to the far reaches to wait. Occasional losses are a cost of doing business, but a single load of tractor beams will buy a whole lot of M5s. When I'm in that mode I monitor a fair number of sectors that generate good loads.


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On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!
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jlehtone



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Joined: 23 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Fri, 24. Aug 18, 22:04    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

"Stay on target." Goner


Takeaway messages:
* You can remotely both control your assets and observe the NPC. A lot of [trade empire] management is OOS.
* NPC are rather predictable.
* There are usually more than one way to get everything (but Goner insurance?)


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DrSuperEvil





Joined: 02 Mar 2018

Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat, 25. Aug 18, 21:02    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Got to use Salvage Insurance to make sure the RNG does not give you miserable rolls. Nothing worse than losing most of your marines to an abandoned ship.

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Triaxx2





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PostPosted: Sun, 26. Aug 18, 15:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The tractor beams on a ship spawn whether or not the factories are in existence, and it's always on Paranid High-Tech traders.

Though the cargo scanner can also help with that.


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DrSuperEvil





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PostPosted: Mon, 27. Aug 18, 23:19    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

All Weapons and Hi-Tech traders can spawn with it just the chances are extremely low.

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Triaxx2





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PostPosted: Mon, 27. Aug 18, 23:34    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I've never seen any of them except a Paranid High-Tech heading from the South Gate to the North Gate in Haktikvah's faith carrying them, but I suppose it's possible.


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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Tue, 28. Aug 18, 01:10    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Triaxx2 wrote:
I've never seen any of them except a Paranid High-Tech heading from the South Gate to the North Gate in Haktikvah's faith carrying them, but I suppose it's possible.


At a guess, they didn't spawn with them, they bought them.


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Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!
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