Best carrier fighter

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Imgran
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Best carrier fighter

Post by Imgran » Wed, 11. Jul 18, 21:28

Criterion

Best combination of speed, maneuverability and price for a multirole M3 or M4 fighter for a player who's picking up his first M1. Meaning that he can afford the hull and gear but probably can't stack it with 60 M3+s

Candidates that occur to me are Mamba, Nova Raider, OTAS Solano, possibly the Terran Scimitar, although weapons for the Scimitar are a little hard to source unless you're spending a lot of money and time doing it (by which I mean, unless you're carefully feeding the Poltergeist, Spectre, and EMPC factories)

Thoughts?
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Post by DrSuperEvil » Wed, 11. Jul 18, 21:52

OTAS Solano is good but I prefer Scorpion Prototype for a Tornado Missile bomber. The Enhanced Pericles is a good general choice due to low cost and PAC usage. Pirate Buzzard Vanguard is the ship of choice for OOS. You using the PHQ to build the fighters or buying?

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Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 11. Jul 18, 22:06

Perhaps a slightly different angle to consider for a first carrier set up would be:

"How best to obtain, outfit and equip adequate fighters (and replace losses when necessary) on a regular and affordable basis?"

To that end my first carrier had strike groups of frequently captured M3 fighters (mainly Blastclaws and Blastclaw Prototypes by preference) equipped for one out of four specific carrier-based role combinations of: IS/OOS and offence/defence. As more enemy ships bailed, so I acquired more fighter groups for a role.

Once this carrier group achieved sufficient security and dominance to allow sustained generous income from my early player empire, only then did I consider expanding and specialising my fleet of carriers and carried fighters.
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Imgran
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Post by Imgran » Wed, 11. Jul 18, 22:08

DrSuperEvil wrote:OTAS Solano is good but I prefer Scorpion Prototype for a Tornado Missile bomber. The Enhanced Pericles is a good general choice due to low cost and PAC usage. Pirate Buzzard Vanguard is the ship of choice for OOS. You using the PHQ to build the fighters or buying?
for a first carrier set up

Meaning that he can afford the hull and gear but probably can't stack it with 60 M3+s
Just curious what about this post suggested that the theoretical player in question had a PHQ?
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Imgran
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Post by Imgran » Wed, 11. Jul 18, 22:10

Alan Phipps wrote:Perhaps a slightly different angle to consider for a first carrier set up would be:

"How best to obtain, outfit and equip adequate fighters (and replace losses when necessary) on a regular and affordable basis?"

To that end my first carrier had strike groups of frequently captured M3 fighters (mainly Blastclaws and Blastclaw Prototypes by preference) equipped for one out of four specific carrier-based role combinations of: IS/OOS and offence/defence. As more enemy ships bailed, so I acquired more fighter groups for a role.

Once this carrier group achieved sufficient security and dominance to allow sustained generous income from my early player empire, only then did I consider expanding and specialising my fleet of carriers and carried fighters.
If I was looking for the answer to that question, that answer would be "whatever you can equip and dock in a jump drive equipped Split Elephant," with OTAS Solanos to flesh out the numbers.. If you're on a tight budget, nothing is quite as efficient for the price as a Solano. They're effectively the T-34 of the X universe

The discussion only really becomes interesting if we move away from the bargain basement where efficiency isn't everything, it's the only thing (in which case the question would be "what is the most cost effective fighter, and why it's the Solano), and talk about multirole fighters vs specialized fighters in various roles.

I included the Mamba in my OP because the combination of speed, PBE compatibility and a good range of missiles makes the Mamba also an extremely efficient choice. PBEs, high speed and heavy fighter missiles is a potent combination if you can affort the replacement costs of a slightly less survivable fighter.
Last edited by Imgran on Wed, 11. Jul 18, 22:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 11. Jul 18, 22:14

Heh, you seem to have answered your own question if you find that Solanos best suit your playstyle in the various roles. :D

BTW, one side benefit of Blastclaw Prototypes as carrier fighters (besides them being an easily obtained pretty good and fast M3+) is that a few of them can also carry and deliver a lot of S/M wares just about anywhere in a dire need.
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Post by Imgran » Wed, 11. Jul 18, 22:18

I'm looking for alternatives. I'm coming into this with the Solano in mind, but surely there are a few other shipyard-purchasable fighters to give it a run for its money.

Surprising no one, I'm roughly in this position, considering purchasing an M1 carrier and wondering if I should just take the no-thought option of filling it with 60 Solanos (I'm envisioning 2 wings of 30, one with Wasps and PRG's for fighter interception, one with Tempest missiles and PACs to deal with heavier targets), or whether there's other possibilities to consider.
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Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 11. Jul 18, 22:25

Fair enough. It sounds like I generally go for my first carrier force at a much earlier and less-affluent stage in the game than the one you are at.
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Post by Imgran » Wed, 11. Jul 18, 22:31

I try to wait until I've really got my economy sorted before I do much with capital ships
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Post by DrSuperEvil » Wed, 11. Jul 18, 23:59

Firstly I assume you are playing AP.

If you rush the plots you may already have a PHQ to make ships that are not for sale at shipyards by the time you get your first M1 (unless you board it). Some are surprisingly economical to spam in the PHQ. Also you can easily feed boarded TLs into the PHQ for resources.

The paranid Enhanced Pericles is available for sale in Trinity Sanctum and is dirt cheap but has the survival of a glorified fighter drone.

Rather go Mamba Raider for the rear turret since that greatly increases the survival of the ships against enemy missiles. Also if you want to kill stuff fast use PBGs since PBEs are only good for stripping shields and equipment.

Falcon Sentinel is also a good OOS choice for M1s since it has alot of shields meaning a low chance to be wiped between combat rounds while the low laser energy regen can be ignored OOS.

Wasp Missiles are a good choice for engaging M5s while Tempest/Thunderbolts are good for M4-M6 but for heavier and slower foes it is most effective to use Tornado missiles.

Unless you have a Medusa Prototype to make in the PHQ for firestorm barrages (Unholy Traitor only).

The Terran #deca.deaf is also a good choice for the M6 level damage from PM/A-MLs. Unfortunately the weapon is hard to source until you pirate some of the factories.

There are also the Drone Hauler series of M4 ships but those are also PHQ production.

Using a Mako swarm with one ID and shield each is a good way to strip large ships in preparation for boarding.

Again Scorpion Prototype and Solano are good low cost missile users.

Otherwise stick with the Argon Eclipse for the high shields and PBG use.

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Post by jlehtone » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 00:24

X3TC or X3AP?


To me, a Capital ship is the economy; I get credits for killing things. Trade is a mere hobby that I might meddle in after I already have credits. Similarly, Carrier is a late toy, when the jewels cease to sparkle, when the gold loses its luster, and solo kills are all mundane.


That said, I eventually did get a Raptor (X3AP) and some Asps. Perhaps 40 or 50. They had some use, but attrition was rather fast. Second wing was Nova Raider's. They have lasted better. 20 Novas left.

Since credits are no issue, Raptor-02 has been ordered and 100 more Nova Raiders. This is where X3AP has perks. Equipping 100 fighters in one go is relatively painless. I buy L's to get full shields, but sell the HEPT. Then add 4 PRG and 5 PAC. 35 Tempests and 80 Mosquitos. MDM and 15% chance to use missile.

I had PAC's in Aran's cargobay. The Argon Equipment Dock had enough PRG and Mosquitos to equip 100 Novas ...

Tempests ... had to build a Forge. All in all, a billion might have vanished from my account, "for second carrier". The main point is not the credits though. It is the amount of inconvenience that your choice of fighter type imposes you when you maintain your wings. IMHO, the Nova Raider's are decent by that metric.


Note: I deem Cobra an important part of a Carrier Force. As a missile defence platform. The Terrans have a nasty habit of sneaking Skirnirs into almost cleaned sectors. I almost lost my first Raptor to such foul play. It had to pull out, leaving part of its wings into the war zone. Valiant last stand they had.
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Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 00:41

I normally go Solano only wing size 3 6PAC only (PRG cost pretty much and don't add much punch or precision if the enemy is swarmed anyway) + Terran Fighter Drones (for dealing massive damage) + some missiles mainly Mosquito's.
As Carrier Colossus or Tokio are good choices, Tokio is quite resilient, Colossus is the cheapest per docking-bay.
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Post by Imgran » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 02:19

Sorry should have been more specific - X3TC
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Post by Imgran » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 02:23

jlehtone wrote:X3TC or X3AP?


To me, a Capital ship is the economy; I get credits for killing things. Trade is a mere hobby that I might meddle in after I already have credits. Similarly, Carrier is a late toy, when the jewels cease to sparkle, when the gold loses its luster, and solo kills are all mundane.


That said, I eventually did get a Raptor (X3AP) and some Asps. Perhaps 40 or 50. They had some use, but attrition was rather fast. Second wing was Nova Raider's. They have lasted better. 20 Novas left.

Since credits are no issue, Raptor-02 has been ordered and 100 more Nova Raiders. This is where X3AP has perks. Equipping 100 fighters in one go is relatively painless. I buy L's to get full shields, but sell the HEPT. Then add 4 PRG and 5 PAC. 35 Tempests and 80 Mosquitos. MDM and 15% chance to use missile.

I had PAC's in Aran's cargobay. The Argon Equipment Dock had enough PRG and Mosquitos to equip 100 Novas ...

Tempests ... had to build a Forge. All in all, a billion might have vanished from my account, "for second carrier". The main point is not the credits though. It is the amount of inconvenience that your choice of fighter type imposes you when you maintain your wings. IMHO, the Nova Raider's are decent by that metric.


Note: I deem Cobra an important part of a Carrier Force. As a missile defence platform. The Terrans have a nasty habit of sneaking Skirnirs into almost cleaned sectors. I almost lost my first Raptor to such foul play. It had to pull out, leaving part of its wings into the war zone. Valiant last stand they had.
I see that we're very different. To me, setting up forges IS the fun in the game. I like to try to corner the weapons market as quickly as possible, that way I always have the weapons I need whenever I need them.
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Post by Bill Huntington » Thu, 12. Jul 18, 06:39

I've battle tested basic M3s and found that Scimitars survive better than anything. They're relatively cheap, and don't have to replaced as often as others since they survive well with their heavy shields.

I've tested them in the Xenon sectors, among other areas.

But M2s are still the standard when it comes to serious combat power.
Bill in S.F., enjoying the game

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