GOD algorithm and idea to prevent station removal

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minderbinder77
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GOD algorithm and idea to prevent station removal

Post by minderbinder77 » Mon, 25. Jun 18, 17:23

I already asked a question about this a few years ago (back in October 2015) and received some great responses, in particular by Mokonan (not sure if he is still active?) who provided the specific details for station removal.

Anyway, I think one of the key points was that the timer for removal will reset if a ship docks at the station.

So I had an idea. Rather than park 200 odd M5s in the Terran stations, what if I used CLS to set up a “fly to station” circuit? In this way, I would need fewer M5s to stop the stations from being removed, and I would train up some CLS pilots at the same time.

Any thoughts on whether this would work? Or do my ships need to be docked at all times?

Alan Phipps
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Post by Alan Phipps » Mon, 25. Jun 18, 19:01

Your solution if practicable may even be better than static docking (this opinion is without testing it of course) as the pre-docked ships could be kicked out by NPCs docking there and then fail to redock for various reasons - and all without the player knowing too.

You may need to investigate what level of CLS visits duplication/redundancy you would need to keep GoD at bay whilst catering for unforeseen transit issues, reputation setbacks and ship losses.
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DrSuperEvil
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Post by DrSuperEvil » Mon, 25. Jun 18, 19:58

The GOD system function for station removal is under the .obj files.

In general only park a ship at stations you cannot buy or belonging to the goner outside war sectors. Otherwise just buy the thing and hook it up to a self sufficient complex.

SirNukes
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Post by SirNukes » Tue, 26. Jun 18, 03:52

One thing to keep in mind is that station removal kicks in almost from the start of a new game, so various stations could be selected for removal before you have the assets to dock a ship at them.
DrSuperEvil wrote:The GOD system function for station removal is under the .obj files.
If interesting in a mod based solution, some key code is in the GODENGINE.InspectSectorTask function. After wreck analysis, the function appears to filter out some sectors by owner (unknown and a couple others) and then do the factory analysis stuff (eg. check if a station has been full on products for a long time). In my tests, editing that code to filter out all sectors will prevent station removal.

Unfortunately, the obj code gets too messy for me to follow when it comes to carrying out removal once stations are selected. A bunch of intermediate steps are involved leading to some internal interaction with the script engine. I would be curious about where the check for player docked ships can be found, if anyone knows.
Last edited by SirNukes on Tue, 26. Jun 18, 10:34, edited 1 time in total.

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X2-Illuminatus
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Post by X2-Illuminatus » Tue, 26. Jun 18, 09:25

DrSuperEvil wrote:The GOD system function for station removal is under the .obj files.

In general only park a ship at stations you cannot buy or belonging to the goner outside war sectors. Otherwise just buy the thing and hook it up to a self sufficient complex.
If the OP plays X3AP, then GOD removal of Terran stations shouldn't be a concern, as it has been disabled for Terran sectors in X3AP.
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minderbinder77
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Post by minderbinder77 » Tue, 26. Jun 18, 17:15

Thank you for the responses. I am going to test this out and then I’ll let you know the results.

Edit: I should have mentioned I am X3 TC at the moment, although I am planning an AP run next.

minderbinder77
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Post by minderbinder77 » Fri, 29. Jun 18, 15:08

UPDATE: Having done some testing, this doesn't appear to work. Here is a summary of the process/results:

- 24 rapiers (max speed) equipped with CLS, each having a "fly to station" circuit of about 4 stations, covering all Terran space up to Mars access. There may have been some overlap, but pretty sure I had every station covered.

- they were allowed to level-up, so I don't know how much that may have impacted the results

- by about 7 hours in I had them all set up. I had lost 4 stations in Terran space to GoD by that point

- I ran SETA for a full game day and then checked ship and station count

- I didn't lose any ships and they were all still running their assigned routes

- It cost me about 540,000cr in wages for the day. I could have turned training off to stop them levelling up, but I wanted to farm the pilots for trading routes later.

- After running SETA for a day, I had lost an additional 25 stations in terran space to GoD.


So my genius idea is a total bust I'm afraid :-(

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Post by DrSuperEvil » Fri, 29. Jun 18, 21:55

CLS level up is purely time flown in space.

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Post by Fulgrymm » Sat, 30. Jun 18, 01:22

Darn shame that it doesn't work. Only option now is to get Terran stations available to purchase.

DrSuperEvil
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Post by DrSuperEvil » Sat, 30. Jun 18, 01:26

So even if you kill Terran stations they will not try to rebuild some of them?

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Post by Snafu_X3 » Wed, 4. Jul 18, 02:29

DrSuperEvil wrote:CLS level up is purely time flown in space.
Given that premise, along with GOD-removal only affecting stations that are /not/ targeted for <player> docking, does this mean that


a) A perfectly-formed 'ring' of fastships will keep otherwise GOD-targeted stations alive (I know it's not possible to make the ring without fastship spam, but..)

b) CLS apprentices (with lvl-up explicitly disabled) can do this for free? (trivial, but a previous poster elsewhere mentioned that it may be possible to accrue CLS XP without levelling.. hence Lvl1 -> Lvl5 instant jump upon enabling lvling; dunno if this is correct: I haven't bothered to track it in the 4 X: versions with CLS)

c) I can't remember point c, but I'm sure there was one..

Either way I suspect the GOD engine is focused on /trade/! If a station is functioning (ie has a non-full output & a non-full input) then it won't be GOD-targeted. So have your CLS fighters or whichever buy/sell anything to keep those station bays from being full for <an amount of time>!
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Cycrow
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Post by Cycrow » Wed, 4. Jul 18, 12:45

a player ship has to be physically docked at the station for it to be ignored.

GOD only checks the currently docked ships. It doesn't check any ships that might be heading to the station

Bill Huntington
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Local Traders to save stations from God Engine

Post by Bill Huntington » Wed, 4. Jul 18, 21:33

Some points: I've had good luck using Local Traders to cover an area. I haven't seen any station removals after they arrive. An LT has Mk. 3 Trade Software. When it has leveled up to 10 it can cover a radius of three sectors. I think you can multiple LTs ready for service long before you have the sophisticated trading options in play. The LT will naturally respond to the high prices offered by stations that are close to removal.

I usually use Springblossoms for LTs in Terran Space. Level 6 is good enough for these, allowing a trading radius of one sector. No Jump Drives usually in Terran Space. But you don't usually have access to Aldrin early in a game.
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Snafu_X3
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Re: Local Traders to save stations from God Engine

Post by Snafu_X3 » Thu, 5. Jul 18, 01:33

Bill Huntington wrote:An LT has Mk. 3 Trade Software. When it has leveled up to 10 it can cover a radius of three sectors. I think you can multiple LTs ready for service long before you have the sophisticated trading options in play. The LT will naturally respond to the high prices offered by stations that are close to removal.
That works reasonably until there are no consumers within LT (or whatever) range: the Mk3 script won't sell at below average price (maybe avg? can't remember) :( So eventually a saturated Mk3 autotrader will fill up & stick until manual intervention is noticed & applied
I usually use Springblossoms for LTs in Terran Space. Level 6 is good enough for these, allowing a trading radius of one sector. No Jump Drives usually in Terran Space. But you don't usually have access to Aldrin early in a game.
I like this trick too, especially to get Springy's JDs automagically via UT (pre-gate Aldrin) without micromanaging them. I dislike the SB as a personal ship: it's too unwieldy as a fighter-substitute (same as for Kestrel) & paper-thin vs caps, plus the energy drain & difficulty in rearming its inaccurate weps: gimme a Hyp any day despite the dramatic speed loss :) That being said the Springy does make an excellent armed automated freighter, & that's what I tend to use it for
Wiki X:R 1st Tit capping
Wiki X3:TC vanilla: Guide to generic missions, Guide to finding & capping Aran
Never played AP; all X3 advice is based on vanilla+bonus pack TC or before: AP has not changed much WRT general advice.

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jacex3tc
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Post by jacex3tc » Mon, 16. Jul 18, 22:54

X2-Illuminatus wrote:
DrSuperEvil wrote:The GOD system function for station removal is under the .obj files.

In general only park a ship at stations you cannot buy or belonging to the goner outside war sectors. Otherwise just buy the thing and hook it up to a self sufficient complex.
If the OP plays X3AP, then GOD removal of Terran stations shouldn't be a concern, as it has been disabled for Terran sectors in X3AP.
Oh shit did TC tend to wipe the Terran sectors? I'm just over one month of game clock in on my go and I haven't gone to Heretic's End yet. I decided to save that.

I don't even have a Cyclone missile factory to get missiles from anymore. I had a bunch and I went looking to buy more and didn't have anywhere to buy it from. So I looked on the web and I probably got them from Ceo's Sprite but it's gone now.

Your comment seems to indicate that non-purchasable stations are invulnerable. I always wondered why the Yaki's stations survived. I think the Space Fuel depots are buyable though. They're still there though.

I'm gonna get all my ships off of arbitrary stations. I haven't lost one yet but I'm gonna see about that.

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