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LittleBird
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Post by LittleBird » Wed, 11. Apr 18, 10:17

Axeface wrote:
ZaphodBeeblebrox wrote:Yeah, and then there is a whole bunch of other people who are genuinely happy that it is going to be more like Rebirth than X3.
I think you could probably count those people on one hand.
X-Rebirth is not nearly that popular as X3:TC etc. are. That is unquestionable.
But I think this is not the point.

I hate a lot what X-Rebirth has to offer but Egosoft did some major changes with it. I am talking about the new size of sectors and stations. About the reworked economy and trading system. About the stunning and interesting look of the sectors.
Honestly I expect more X-Rebirth than X3. The good stuff of X-Rebirth of course. And there is some.
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
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Post by ZaphodBeeblebrox » Wed, 11. Apr 18, 11:28

@Fleabum
I have never stated that X3 is an unpopular game. I have played various versions of it for 1000's of hours. I no longer play X3 or X Rebirth. However there is much in Rebirth that I regard as major improvements over X3.

From what I have seen of X4, Egosoft are continuing in their fine tradition of building on the best of their previous games.

I personally want Egosoft to continue to innovate and produce high quality space based games.
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Post by Skeeter » Wed, 11. Apr 18, 11:54

I really disliked the larger areas and would prefer the smaller x2 ones back with gates. Rebirth navigation and big areas are just a mistake I feel as yes there big but there empty too so what's the point. Imo that was the biggest mistake they did with rebirth.
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Vandragorax
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Post by Vandragorax » Wed, 11. Apr 18, 12:07

I think this thread (along with the hundreds of others that have devolved into "X3 vs XR" battles) quite adequately proves that if there is ONE thing Egosoft include, it absolutely MUST be modding lol

I have to say that I don't really understand why some people seem to literally just want a remastered version of X3. That is a different release guys, this is going to be X4. It will contain elements from X3 and Rebirth as well as totally NEW stuff, it will be modern looking and modern feeling so that it stands up with today's games in 2018 and doesn't feel like a 10 year old game as soon as it's released.

A game franchise cannot survive if it doesn't evolve as time goes by. If you are so adamant that X3 is the best in the franchise, then keep playing X3. But there are plenty of us who can't go back and play those things with awful UIs, keyboard-driven menus, bad looking graphics, dumb AI... and all the other faults (some of which have been improved in Rebirth, despite all the naysaying) and would rather a NEW game in the series tackles some of the issues and at least tries to introduce new and exciting and modern ideas and gameplay.

I'm with the OP that I have faith that Egosoft will deliver a fantastic game as they always strive to do, and fully support it in the years to come. I also strongly support Egosoft's track record regarding ZERO micro-transactions, and reasonably priced DLC which adds lots of new content. :) From the videos I've seen so far from Ego, I'm excited for sure! The ship docking looks fantastic, the strategic UI looks fantastic, station building looks fantastic. Definitely a lot of steps in the right direction, in my view.
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Spero
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Post by Spero » Wed, 11. Apr 18, 13:44

Vandragorax wrote:I have to say that I don't really understand why some people seem to literally just want a remastered version of X3.
Nobody "literally wants a remastered X3". They just don't want a U-turn on the mechanics that made the X series a solid franchise, which is what XR was.

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LittleBird
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Post by LittleBird » Wed, 11. Apr 18, 15:14

Skeeter wrote:I really disliked the larger areas and would prefer the smaller x2 ones back with gates. Rebirth navigation and big areas are just a mistake I feel as yes there big but there empty too so what's the point. Imo that was the biggest mistake they did with rebirth.
I prefere the X2 sektors over them in X3. They felt more... organic. After X2 the gates were mostly on the same positions.
But sectors are small in both games. And a space game with small sectors is wrong in so many points.
You have an area of roughly 150*150km often thousand of miles away from any planet with 4 gates leading to other parts of the galaxy!
It is hilarious. The old X-universe is just a network of small areas. It is unlogical and unbelievable. We know the reason for this are engine limitations.

Increasing in size was one of the best parts of X-Rebirth.

To compensate the emptiness you mentioned you got fast travel options. It is like flying in X3 with your Teladi Harpy in terran systems instead with a TS.
Also inreasing in size allows for more variety in sector design. Look at X2/X3 sectors. They are all nearly the same. Now you have sectors with many different objects. Not just stations but also nebulas and asteroid belts. In X2/3 the entire sector is the nebula or the asteroid belt.
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ajime
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Post by ajime » Thu, 12. Apr 18, 03:51

LittleBird wrote:
Skeeter wrote:I really disliked the larger areas and would prefer the smaller x2 ones back with gates. Rebirth navigation and big areas are just a mistake I feel as yes there big but there empty too so what's the point. Imo that was the biggest mistake they did with rebirth.
I prefere the X2 sektors over them in X3. They felt more... organic. After X2 the gates were mostly on the same positions.
But sectors are small in both games. And a space game with small sectors is wrong in so many points.
You have an area of roughly 150*150km often thousand of miles away from any planet with 4 gates leading to other parts of the galaxy!
It is hilarious. The old X-universe is just a network of small areas. It is unlogical and unbelievable. We know the reason for this are engine limitations.

Increasing in size was one of the best parts of X-Rebirth.

To compensate the emptiness you mentioned you got fast travel options. It is like flying in X3 with your Teladi Harpy in terran systems instead with a TS.
Also inreasing in size allows for more variety in sector design. Look at X2/X3 sectors. They are all nearly the same. Now you have sectors with many different objects. Not just stations but also nebulas and asteroid belts. In X2/3 the entire sector is the nebula or the asteroid belt.
That's probably because the engine performance couldn't do real time nebulas without significant performance issue like X2 or XR. Have you seen how it stutters when you are close to it in X2 or XR? Auspicious excavation is still stuttering my pc framerate if the hud is pointing on it at that DV gate. I don't know how they are gonna improve the layering since the second iteration is similar in nature.

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Vandragorax
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Post by Vandragorax » Thu, 12. Apr 18, 14:58

LittleBird wrote:
Skeeter wrote:I really disliked the larger areas and would prefer the smaller x2 ones back with gates. Rebirth navigation and big areas are just a mistake I feel as yes there big but there empty too so what's the point. Imo that was the biggest mistake they did with rebirth.
I prefere the X2 sektors over them in X3. They felt more... organic. After X2 the gates were mostly on the same positions.
But sectors are small in both games. And a space game with small sectors is wrong in so many points.
You have an area of roughly 150*150km often thousand of miles away from any planet with 4 gates leading to other parts of the galaxy!
It is hilarious. The old X-universe is just a network of small areas. It is unlogical and unbelievable. We know the reason for this are engine limitations.

Increasing in size was one of the best parts of X-Rebirth.

To compensate the emptiness you mentioned you got fast travel options. It is like flying in X3 with your Teladi Harpy in terran systems instead with a TS.
Also inreasing in size allows for more variety in sector design. Look at X2/X3 sectors. They are all nearly the same. Now you have sectors with many different objects. Not just stations but also nebulas and asteroid belts. In X2/3 the entire sector is the nebula or the asteroid belt.
Very good points about galaxy size improvements with XR :)
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Dreez
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Post by Dreez » Thu, 12. Apr 18, 16:53

I'm looking forward to X4. But after Rebirth, i'll wait for the reviews.

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Gnorog
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Post by Gnorog » Thu, 12. Apr 18, 22:18

Spero wrote: Nobody "literally wants a remastered X3". They just don't want a U-turn on the mechanics that made the X series a solid franchise, which is what XR was.
A "remastered X3" would be an instant buy on my part. After XR I'm very cautious about any "innovation" on the part of Egosoft.

ArgoChris
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Post by ArgoChris » Fri, 13. Apr 18, 02:13

I think something to remember with all this is that Egosoft originally developed the X-Universe in its totality, I believe that they know how to balance game mechanics and refine abstract systems into engaging and somewhat-easy to read systems.

The main issue they faced with X3 was engine and performance limitations, these have subsided in significant ways. Not to mention multi-threading for task processing. I think we will see a MASSIVE shift in terms of control and engagement, ships will be smarter, both tactically and in navigation. I'm excited to see where the improvements come into play. Especially with the scale they showed just in Tech demos.

Honved
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Post by Honved » Fri, 13. Apr 18, 17:32

I think the main points are:

1 - While XR brought some definite improvements in some aspects, it strayed away from the formula that made the earlier games popular, and severely compromised the unparalelled freedom that most players were willing to suffer through their many flaws and tediums for.

2 - While XR had its share of problems, the earlier series had worked itself into a corner from an engine standpoint, and was in drastic need of a redesign and complete overhaul of several fundamental game mechanics.

3 - X4 needs to re-incorporate the things about X2/X3 that worked into the new engine, and seriously rethink (or drop) a few things which caused problems in XR. It also needs a decent tutorial or well-explained documentation to get the new player up and running quickly.

4 - The "highways" were an answer to a problem, and not a good one, but removing the highways still leaves us with the problem: crossing those gigantic sectors takes a LOT of time.

nemesis1982
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Post by nemesis1982 » Tue, 17. Apr 18, 09:08

I'd agree that XR wasn't all bad. Many of the systems did not work properly and where cumbersome. However it was a step up in my opinion.

From what I read about X4 up to now they'll fix much of that.

Everyone complains about the highways. I don't really see the problem with them. There would've been better ways to solve it but it works. I think XR has far worse issues which should be addressed first! Namely a lack of overview, control and decent automation.
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Keep in mind that it's still a work in progress although it's taking shape nicely.

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sd_jasper
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Post by sd_jasper » Tue, 17. Apr 18, 14:56

nemesis1982 wrote:Everyone complains about the highways. I don't really see the problem with them.
Yeah, I don't get everyone hating on the highways. Nobody had any problem with the transorbital accelerators in X3, which are pretty much the same things as the super-highways in XR. I wonder if there were only super-highways if folks would still complain (my guess is probably).

Actually now that I think of of it, the same people don't like the idea of walking between ships. I LOVE the idea of a seamless transition between ship -> station -> other ship -> space -> new sector. Maybe some folks just really love loading screens?

ArgoChris
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Post by ArgoChris » Tue, 17. Apr 18, 23:03

Actually now that I think of of it, the same people don't like the idea of walking between ships. I LOVE the idea of a seamless transition between ship -> station -> other ship -> space -> new sector. Maybe some folks just really love loading screens?
Totally, I think it has something to do with a fear of these new features detracting from the ones we love (as if they couldn't co-exist). I understand the issue they are facing though, how do we traverse these accurately huge sectors? I'm not sure myself (evolution of the jumpdrive)?

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