Highway gameplay improvement

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LittleBird
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Post by LittleBird » Fri, 6. Apr 18, 11:54

lyubarskiy wrote: I don't agree with the same speed thing. You don't need to have a bumper cars scenario if traffic is moving at different speeds. You can have a soft dampening system where you automatically glide around slower traffic, or avoid it if you want. But I do want the ability to catch up to that freighter / pirate in the tunnel. Or slow down to jump out at a specific point or just assess the current situation of things outside, or even escort a slow moving freighter to destination.
Why do you want to catch up inside the highway?
If everything has the same speed it is just a matter of a few seconds after everyone leaves the highway. In fact the distance you had before the freighter entered is the same when he leaves.
So I like the same speed idea. It eliminates collisions and you can leave ship controls for fleet management etc.
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Tonsilgon
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Post by Tonsilgon » Fri, 6. Apr 18, 12:46

And regardless of the speed in highways, make the autopilot and the navigator calculate directions without only using them.
For example, if you are in HOL District 8 and want to go to District 7, it should not point you into the highway to go all around the big circle.

Or make all highways 2-way. But please one above the other, so you can see, which to use.

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Post by GCU Grey Area » Fri, 6. Apr 18, 13:32

LittleBird wrote:Why do you want to catch up inside the highway?
When I'm doing an escort mission prefer to follow the freighter into the highway, then overtake & leave the highway before the client, preferably with enough time to deal with any hostiles at the far end.

Not a fan of this same speed idea. Like to go as fast as possible through the highways, even if there is a risk of collision with slower moving traffic. Anyway there are a couple of options for people who want to fly slower, either adjust throttle or set autopilot to follow a slower moving ship. Hammering through the highways at full speed is not mandatory.

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Vandragorax
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Post by Vandragorax » Fri, 6. Apr 18, 14:17

Tonsilgon wrote:Or make all highways 2-way. But please one above the other, so you can see, which to use.
- I'm pretty certain Bernd has said that they are making (almost all?) highways two-way in X4. They will be designed as actual highways now, a quick travel path through the middle of sectors in both directions, not a spaghetti path leading past all the stations in an area.
GCU Grey Area wrote: Not a fan of this same speed idea. Like to go as fast as possible through the highways, even if there is a risk of collision with slower moving traffic. Anyway there are a couple of options for people who want to fly slower, either adjust throttle or set autopilot to follow a slower moving ship. Hammering through the highways at full speed is not mandatory.
- But if everyone goes the same speed in a highway, then you WILL be going "as fast as possible"... just so will everyone else :D Nobody wants to move slower in a highway, it's just a thing to get in and get out at the right points, the rest is like autopilot.
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X2-Illuminatus
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Post by X2-Illuminatus » Fri, 6. Apr 18, 14:50

From the Q&A thread:
Universe Design
  • If it is possible to add a second lane that goes in the other direction. In addition to a visible construction like the freelancer, it would be great if I could change the direction at any moment, if necessary as in real life highways.
    No, there were good reasons for making any given highway one-way. Where we need bidirectional traffic we can just place two next to one another.
    [...]
  • I'm curious about the travel system how all that is gonna work?
    Travel will be similar to XR, whereby the highways will be mostly in straight lines or single radius curves. Not all zones will have highways and you will be able to boost over longer distances. This is following the steps we did in the Home of Light DLC. Additionally, using a feature called "Teleportation" you will be able to teleport between your ships, to travel much more quickly.
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Buzz2005
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Post by Buzz2005 » Fri, 6. Apr 18, 19:30

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Buzz2005 wrote:highways should not have any minigame at all
There is no minigame these days. They got rid of the silly "tailgate other ships to go faster" thing years ago.
I still get knocked out of them from time to time

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Geek
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Post by Geek » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 09:29

Yeah, avoiding other ships to keep max speed is *still* a minigame.
And you even get a small chance to be thrown away too, as written above.
Right on commander !

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Post by GCU Grey Area » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 10:06

Geek wrote:Yeah, avoiding other ships to keep max speed is *still* a minigame.
And you even get a small chance to be thrown away too, as written above.
That's what you're calling a minigame? Really? Thought avoiding flying into other ships was just a basic game mechanic common to many space flight sims. Never considered it might be a minigame, any more than I thought "don't fly into the side of the station", or "dodge the asteroid" could be them. Nah, really not convinced - think it's more a case of labeling elements of a game which some people don't like as "minigame", purely as a derogative term.

Buzz2005
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Post by Buzz2005 » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 11:18

since you have to watch the ship to get out when wanted and to avoid traffic to get max speed, yes its a mini game

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Geek
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Post by Geek » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 11:28

GCU Grey Area wrote: That's what you're calling a minigame? Really? Thought avoiding flying into other ships was just a basic game mechanic common to many space flight sims.
There is nothing in common between avoiding regular ships, that you can see from a distance at normal speed (not to mention radar), and the *artificial* spawns inside a high speed highway.
So yeah it is a minigame, big time.
Right on commander !

Fleabum
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Post by Fleabum » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 15:35

Its quite sad really that all these repetitive mini games were added. The X series didn't need them, Egosofts games are that rich, exciting, awesome and full of wonder that they don't need to add boring time sinks, crappy minigames, and useless chat interactions. These are things that game studios do when their games have a lack of depth, and seriously you don't need to do this Egosoft... your actually better than this. Your products have depth that other game studios should be trying to emulate, not the other way round.

For me, the X3 player wasn't your typical player than plays a game for a week or two, then moves onto the newest eye candy AAA title, they are ones who come back, month after month to play. I still play X3 since it was released, there are only two other games I come back to play month on month.... Path of Exile and Modded Minecraft.

Well I digress, back to space lanes.

I really dislike the whole moving your ship to miss other ships in a constrained tube of light. Do we really believe that races that have mastered space flight, colonisation and exploration of the universe, would have a manual system to move around other objects in a constrained space lane? come on.... we mere humans are still stuck on this rock and we are going to have fully automated travel before we have mass spaceflight.

For me space lanes was a game design choice that was negatively received in XR (and looking at the feelings on the forums, either people hate them, dislike them, get frustrated by the mechanics, or just live with them. You can count on one hand the amount of people who have said that space lanes are fantastic... they are awesome... they are the best way to travel through space.). Either remove them or make them fully automatic already.

And if you do force us to use these really stupid space lanes in X4, then as a bare minimum make them fully automatic and built into any autopilot or docking type system. Manually moving is a total waste of time, boring and repetitive, that time could be better suited to managing your corporation empire.

I fear space lanes are there to stay, I just hope the engine can cope with mods that can remove them... if not, then XR2 it is. ;)

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Flea

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LittleBird
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Post by LittleBird » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 16:56

Fleabum wrote: For me space lanes was a game design choice that was negatively received in XR (and looking at the feelings on the forums, either people hate them, dislike them, get frustrated by the mechanics, or just live with them.
Mmhhh... do you mean space lanes in general or just the poor execution in X:Rebirth?
Because that is the point. Are space lanes wrong by default? I do not think so.
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Fleabum
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Post by Fleabum » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 17:55

LittleBird wrote:Mmhhh... do you mean space lanes in general or just the poor execution in X:Rebirth?
Because that is the point. Are space lanes wrong by default? I do not think so.
Space lanes can work if designed and implemented 'well'. Although what you call 'well' is different for everyone, and if you asked 10 different people, then I am sure you would get 10 different answers.

Personally I don't want them, or feel like I am forced to use them (due to disadvantages if you don't) if they are implemented. But if they have to be there then they should never be manual, this is a space game and it just is a stupid idea that you would have manual space lane with all the advanced and automated technology available in the universe. Space lanes needs to be automatically tied into the autopilot. If it is quicker to use a space lane, the autopilot should work this out, should fly you to it, hitch a ride in it and exit it at the correct point, before continuing on your merry journey.

Just give me SETA and a JD and I don't ever need to use a space lane. :D

Common sense lore and joking aside, the whole space lane mini-game is not in keeping with a genre of game like the X series. Its like saying would you put time sink mini-games in Age of Empires, Total War or Civilisation, No. Games with a lot of depth don't need mini-games, and the X series are classed along these lines. You should be too busy managing your empire to play bumper cars, find the loot crate, or guess the mood of NPC123 to recruit them.

Some games just don't feel right with mini-games and and the X series is one of these games. X:Rebirth was more of an arcade style game with a bit of 4x bolted on, so yes, mini-game were justified. Whereas X3 was (and x4 should be) not an arcade game, its a 4x strategy game with a flight combat simulator bolted on.

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Flea

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Post by GCU Grey Area » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 23:19

Fleabum wrote:if they have to be there then they should never be manual
You do realise you can already use autopilot in the highways, right? Can even use boosters & SETA while the autopilot is active, so you can still go just as fast. Don't understand why you are so insistent that everyone who doesn't agree with you should have to give up manual control. Surely the current implementation is better: people who just want a fast journey can simply set the autopilot & turn on SETA, while those who prefer it still have the manual option available.

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Post by Fleabum » Sun, 8. Apr 18, 00:39

GCU Grey Area wrote:Don't understand why you are so insistent that everyone who doesn't agree with you should have to give up manual control. Surely the current implementation is better: people who just want a fast journey can simply set the autopilot & turn on SETA, while those who prefer it still have the manual option available.
Manual control means you don't turn on autopilot, why would you be giving up the option to NOT turn on autopilot if it was an option to have an autopilot? that makes no sense at all. /facepalm It you want to fly manually, then do it, nothing would change if the autopilot had the ability to, maybe, actually, autopilot. ;)

So also telling me that X4 will have the autopilot fly you to a lane, keep you in it and then takes you out before flying you to your final destination now...

Awesome, job sorted then. Autopilot on, SETA on, and you don't have to worry about space lanes kicking you out, or bumbing you.

Or is this not how it behaves now?

regards
Flea

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