Jumpdrives got me into X3, highways just dropped me off XR, and we're legion

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Santi
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Post by Santi » Wed, 30. May 18, 16:52

Space Highways are not an issue if you can use other methods to speed up your travelling times. With boosters, SETA, and autopilot, you can totally ignore highways if you want to do so. I am holding my thoughts in Teleportation till I know more about it.

This is one of the few cases where Egosoft has gone the extra mile and make how you travel around the Universe "an option".

You are happy with highways, you can use them, your are not, then do not use them as they are one of many options, it is a player choice.
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Post by Honved » Wed, 30. May 18, 17:15

I see the addition of "express travel lanes" in each direction as a potentially positive way of aiding navigation across large sectors. The ships should be able to gradually accelerate to higher "travel" speeds outside of the lanes as well, but the lanes would allow for automatic navigation and safer "hands free" operation than trying to cut directly across a sector to a remote destination. The inclusion of enclosed structures in space, as "tubes" that you have to fly through, was just silly. PLEASE, no tubes.

All it takes is either one simple string of markers between the lanes for each direction (green on the side you're heading, red on the opposite side, and everyone tries to stay well away from the oncoming traffic and the markers), or else well-spaced accelerator rings that you fly through to boost your speed in that direction, NOT a restrictive and insanely resource-intensive system of enclosed tubes. Think of how many stations they could have built for what was sunk into those "highways" in XR.

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Post by sd_jasper » Wed, 30. May 18, 17:39

Honved wrote:I see the addition of "express travel lanes" in each direction as a potentially positive way of aiding navigation across large sectors. The ships should be able to gradually accelerate to higher "travel" speeds outside of the lanes as well, but the lanes would allow for automatic navigation and safer "hands free" operation than trying to cut directly across a sector to a remote destination. The inclusion of enclosed structures in space, as "tubes" that you have to fly through, was just silly. PLEASE, no tubes.
In X Rebirth (and presumably in X4) local highways are not enclosed. The "tube" is just a visual effect to show where the highway is and what direction it goes. Ships can enter and exit at any point along the local highway.

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Post by Graaf » Wed, 30. May 18, 21:51

Santi wrote:Space Highways are not an issue if you can use other methods to speed up your travelling times. With boosters, SETA, and autopilot, you can totally ignore highways if you want to do so. I am holding my thoughts in Teleportation till I know more about it.

This is one of the few cases where Egosoft has gone the extra mile and make how you travel around the Universe "an option".

You are happy with highways, you can use them, your are not, then do not use them as they are one of many options, it is a player choice.
Well, since optionality is back, why not give us the option to use, or in your case, to not use, the jumpdrive?
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Post by sd_jasper » Wed, 30. May 18, 22:15

Graaf wrote:Well, since optionality is back, why not give us the option to use, or in your case, to not use, the jumpdrive?
Think about this for a minute. What happens in a game where factions can destroy enemy stations... and have the ability to move a whole fleet to the enemy's stronghold?

You get carnage. Just a total slug fest to see who can wipe the other as quickly as possible. Build up then roll the enemy (and hope they don't get bigger faster).

Now think about wha it means to not have that ability. The faction has to slowly expand out toward their enemy. They have to maintain supply lines, engage on multiple fronts, battle for borderland areas, protect their flank, and so on. This is a deeply more strategic game, all by just removing the Jump Drive.

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Post by Fleabum » Thu, 31. May 18, 00:57

sd_jasper wrote:Now think about wha it means to not have that ability. The faction has to slowly expand out toward their enemy. They have to maintain supply lines, engage on multiple fronts, battle for borderland areas, protect their flank, and so on. This is a deeply more strategic game, all by just removing the Jump Drive.
X3 LU had jumpdrives and the OCV still expanded sector by sector protecting their supply lines. It's all in the coding

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Post by sd_jasper » Thu, 31. May 18, 01:46

Fleabum wrote:X3 LU had jumpdrives and the OCV still expanded sector by sector protecting their supply lines. It's all in the coding
Well I can't speak to LU, as I've never played it, but what is the point of supply lines when you can just instantly teleport supplies from where they are to where they need to be?

Unless it is just forced to act that way because Jump Drive, used logically, would be less strategic and less fun? That's all fine... you can make a game that way. All in the coding as you say. I just don't really go for that kinda of "ignore the man behind the curtain" design.

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Post by Graaf » Thu, 31. May 18, 07:42

sd_jasper wrote:
Graaf wrote:Well, since optionality is back, why not give us the option to use, or in your case, to not use, the jumpdrive?
Think about this for a minute. What happens in a game where factions can destroy enemy stations... and have the ability to move a whole fleet to the enemy's stronghold?

You get carnage. Just a total slug fest to see who can wipe the other as quickly as possible. Build up then roll the enemy (and hope they don't get bigger faster).

Now think about wha it means to not have that ability. The faction has to slowly expand out toward their enemy. They have to maintain supply lines, engage on multiple fronts, battle for borderland areas, protect their flank, and so on. This is a deeply more strategic game, all by just removing the Jump Drive.
And all those deep strategies go into the bin when you place your fleets inside your friends territory before you make a surprise assault.

And then we still get carnage and a slug fest to see who can wipe out the other first. No matter what tactic you use. What else did you think would happen?

And what kind of supplies are we dependant of? Reinforcements? Always. Jumpfuel? Ahum... we need a jumpdrive for that. Other? Please enlighten me.

sd_jasper wrote:...engage on multiple fronts...
Only if you can support that, otherwise I advice you NOT to open multiple fronts.
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Santi
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Post by Santi » Thu, 31. May 18, 13:04

Graaf wrote:Well, since optionality is back, why not give us the option to use, or in your case, to not use, the jumpdrive?
That already had a response from the devs, jumpdrive will be substituted by teleporting, how that will pan out, we will not know till the game is out.
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Post by Assailer » Thu, 31. May 18, 17:25

My main concern with static highways is that they pretty much define how sectors are designed optimal. If they would implement dynamic highway system where the highways get built based on traffic.... then just by looking at the zone map you would know where the real business/traffic is :)

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Post by Graaf » Thu, 31. May 18, 19:06

Santi wrote:That already had a response from the devs, jumpdrive will be substituted by teleporting, how that will pan out, we will not know till the game is out.
My guess is: poorly.
And another guess: after a few times using it, people will start complaining about the extra action to take over the ship.
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Post by sd_jasper » Fri, 1. Jun 18, 02:46

Graaf wrote:And all those deep strategies go into the bin when you place your fleets inside your friends territory before you make a surprise assault
Not at all. Move your fleet deep into a target territory then attack, well you may win... but what about all the ships and stations between your friendly areas and where your fleet is now? You have to deal with them on the way back out... Or have a secondary fleet that moves in to help secure the areas between.

Or were you assuming that NPCs would park big fleets in one central area? If you can't just instantly move a fleet anywhere, it makes a lot more sense to have multiple smaller fleets and patrol your controlled areas.

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Post by Assailer » Fri, 1. Jun 18, 06:50

Besides the initial highway system, the player should be able to build those. Then highways should have some maintenance fee and tariff for providing faster, safer travel. This could be a business opportunity, like highway mogul :)

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Post by Falcrack » Fri, 1. Jun 18, 14:50

Santi wrote:Space Highways are not an issue if you can use other methods to speed up your travelling times. With boosters, SETA, and autopilot, you can totally ignore highways if you want to do so. I am holding my thoughts in Teleportation till I know more about it.

This is one of the few cases where Egosoft has gone the extra mile and make how you travel around the Universe "an option".

You are happy with highways, you can use them, your are not, then do not use them as they are one of many options, it is a player choice.
There has to be an advantage to using highways over other forms of travel. Otherwise, there will be no reason to have them in the game at all.

Perhaps highways could have the advantage of being much faster than boosting for going between two points. Or it would use less fuel than boosting (maybe boosting would require e-cells). Boosting would have the advantage of versatility in terms of where you want to go.

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Post by Sparky Sparkycorp » Fri, 1. Jun 18, 15:37

Falcrack wrote: There has to be an advantage to using highways over other forms of travel. Otherwise, there will be no reason to have them in the game at all.

Perhaps highways could have the advantage of being much faster than boosting for going between two points. Or it would use less fuel than boosting (maybe boosting would require e-cells). Boosting would have the advantage of versatility in terms of where you want to go.
I'm sure this will be the case (A-to-B faster by highway, but with players probably wanting to go from A-to-C via B) since this is the Rebirth approach (with, I believe, adjustments in X4 to be more HoL DLC-like and having less windy highways).

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