EnglishGermanFrenchRussianItalianSpanish
Log inRegister
 
Save Game System
Post new topic Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Tamina





Joined: 26 Jan 2014



PostPosted: Sat, 31. Mar 18, 00:09    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@Nanook
So they should consider lack of quality into their design decisions? May I suggest an X-for-God-Mode button again for the case when the savegame system breaks and I have to redo a lot of stuff?

They should also include a boardgame for when the game does not start up in the first couple of months. Work-around: "Play boardgames until fixed".


_________________
Code:
  /l、
゙(゚、 。 7
 l、゙ ~ヽ   /
 じしf_, )ノ
This is Tamina. Copy Tamina to your signature to help her achieve world domination.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SirNukes





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 219 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sat, 31. Mar 18, 01:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nanook wrote:
You want an 'ironman' style, then be an 'ironman' with your self control and don't use savegames.

+1 on that. If someone is playing mediumcore (only reload on death) or hardcore (never reload) style, and something bad happens or they die in game, there are three ways the player can respond:
1) Accept the loss and move on.
2) Realize that the loss ruins too much of the fun and reload the last save, dialing back the ___core commitment.
3) Judge the loss as not legit (maybe because of a bug or crash or similar) and reload the last save, but otherwise continuing with the commitment.

In any case, a game with backed up saves conforms to the player's desire. It's really not all that hard to play mediumcore style as long as the losses feel legit; that is my standard style for X3. Hardcore is somewhat more difficult but doable; the furthest I've ever gone was to delete a 100 hour old psuedo-hardcore Guild Wars character (after misjudging how far away my monks were).

If you really really want the game to be mean and delete your save when you load up, you could just write your own launcher to do that automatically. A few lines of Python code, along with an ingame script to signal when a savegame finishes loading, and you can recreate the dead-is-dead mode of X3, complete with losing all progress on a game crash.

Fleabum wrote:
Now having some sort of middle ground, whereas you lose resources (ship, credits, etc) in the event of dying, that might be an interesting combination.

This would be a great thing for Egosoft to add in, since the player can't easily mimic it. Though I would flavor it as an emergency transport, since the X games already have that tech. Give it to NPCs and it can even boost immersion, helping explain why transport pilots are so willing to fly through pirate sectors.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nightphreak





Joined: 29 Jan 2018



PostPosted: Sat, 31. Mar 18, 07:19    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Maybe an option to play without quick save as a play style... though i'm not sure how that would work with the coding if it is too difficult they will probably just leave it how they have it.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axeface



MEDALMEDALMEDAL

Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 927 on topic
Location: Naos Nihal
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sat, 31. Mar 18, 07:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Fleabum wrote:
This is down to the playstyle of the player, and if you want to play one life, then they don't reload any possible saved games. I don't see you need an option for disabling saved games, if you want to play like that, just don't use saved games... simples.
Flea


Nope, not 'simples'. Christ.

Like I said before, Im one of those players and I want an ironman option. Im so, so tired of people telling me what I think.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fleabum





Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 76 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sat, 31. Mar 18, 14:11    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Axeface wrote:
Like I said before, Im one of those players and I want an ironman option. Im so, so tired of people telling me what I think.


You want to play with no saves, then don't use them. Its not telling you what to think, its telling you how to achieve what you want with the system as it is. It really is that simple.

As to others who suggest disabling autosaving, this was an option in X3.

Regards
Flea

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axeface



MEDALMEDALMEDAL

Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 927 on topic
Location: Naos Nihal
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sun, 1. Apr 18, 05:15    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Fleabum wrote:
You want to play with no saves, then don't use them. Its not telling you what to think, its telling you how to achieve what you want with the system as it is. It really is that simple.

As to others who suggest disabling autosaving, this was an option in X3.


Lol, incredible.
Do I need to spell it out for you and the rest like you? I dont think like you, IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. I want option 'A'. Option A WILL NOT effect you, people like you, or your save/load game in any way. It is not a design fundamental, it WILL NOT change the game for YOU. It will change the game for ME. It is NOT asking for no Jumpdrives or no Highways.

This is not an arguement, it is you telling me to think like you. What I want will NOT effect you or your playstyle in any way. It would be an option at gamestart for ME and others like ME.

And, excuse me.... But how on earth can you say in another thread...

Fleabum wrote:
Some things are black and white.

They are liked by some, disliked by others, you make an object white, well I don't like white I like black. So, let’s keep everyone happy, make it so you can choose it white or black.


...and then say this here?

Just try to understand.

I am not like you, I dont think like you - and I am so tired of arguing this point on dozens of forums with people droaning on with the same reply... "Dont like it dont use it".... ENOUGH.

Also, I played XCOM 2 on Ironman mode. 90% of twitch streamers did too. It is something people want and find interesting. The game is exactly the same with it enabled, yet FUNDAMENTALLY different for people that WANT THAT MODE. Do you understand?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ajime





Joined: 15 May 2017
Posts: 142 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sun, 1. Apr 18, 09:15    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

This is turning into the single vs multiple ships again. Anyways we can express our pleasure or displeasure on a decision which ES will evaluate and take based on their cost and benefit for implementation. Im sure they have a team to evaluate such continuity/trend management. i think its unfair to tell others how they should like the game to be played. Even if they made a poor design decision, it should be respected as we have no idea what they have gone through to reach that juncture, and we could always blame them Razz

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fleabum





Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 76 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sun, 1. Apr 18, 14:44    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@ajime I agree with you, and I am sure the released game will be far different to the snippets we have seen so far. For all we know the things discussed on the forums might already have been discussed, added or discounted to the game design team. All I hope for is that anything I dislike can be modded, and if not, life is to short to worry about it. Very Happy

Axeface wrote:
Do I need to spell it out for you and the rest like you? I dont think like you, IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. I want option 'A'

You need to wind your neck in matey, ‘like me and the rest like me?’ Then you proceed to use aggressive tone and numerous capitals like some child trying to get a point across thinking capitals emphasize their point. It doesn’t, in fact it does the complete opposite.

I never said the an ‘ironman’ option would change the game for me, I stated a simple fact, if you want to play a game as one life, aka, ironman, and it has auto saves, all you do is have some self-control and don’t use saves. This is not the argument you seem to make of it, passion is good, but not when used incorrectly.

I think you did miss the point of my post in the other thread though. Your (part)quote had nothing to do with what I have said, which is how you can already achieve what you are looking for within the game design as it stands. If your basing it on the full post I made in the other thread, then you need to take a step back and ask yourself this, “If I were a game developer and I get asked for a function in my game that already exists if the player has self-control, would you divert time and resources adding it?” Maybe if enough people requested it, but it would be bottom of the pile in suggestions.

In X3, you could have just set the autosave toggle to no and you would have your lack of autosaves. I would love to see this option in X4 not from the point of one life, but from the point of system stutters in X3 every time you enter a station caused by the autosaves.

If I was going to play one life, then I personally would just ignore any (auto)saves when I died I would restart. If you feel there must be a toggle to help with your lack of self-control, then that’s your opinion and I accept that’s your view. Please accept this is mine.

Regards
Flea

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)

MEDALMEDALMEDAL

Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 17963 on topic
Location: Stonehenge, UK
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sun, 1. Apr 18, 15:48    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Enough personal bickering and comments thanks. If this carries on the thread will be locked so stay on topic please.


_________________
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LittleBird





Joined: 19 Dec 2011



PostPosted: Sun, 1. Apr 18, 15:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@Fleabum
First you have ironmodes in many other games. So your self-control argument does not work. Obviously many developer noticed this lack of self-control and added the function.
Second adding an ironmode is easy doing. It is not a question about time ressource it is about doing it or not.

Well X-games are not known for stability so an ironmode should have a copy of one save before I think. So if your death was the games fault you are not loosing everything.


_________________
Ich bin für die Einführung von Ironie- und Sarkasmustags.
Alle Klarheiten beseitigt!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axeface



MEDALMEDALMEDAL

Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 927 on topic
Location: Naos Nihal
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Wed, 11. Apr 18, 04:38    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

LittleBird wrote:
@Fleabum
First you have ironmodes in many other games. So your self-control argument does not work. Obviously many developer noticed this lack of self-control and added the function.
Second adding an ironmode is easy doing. It is not a question about time ressource it is about doing it or not.


Thank you. I have argued this point so many times that it is becoming a chore, and to get the same reply literally dozens of times is incredibly taxing. Like I said in another post here, if self-control was so simple (notice Fleabum, that I did not say 'If it is as simple AS self control') then no developer would ever have made the mode.

And yes I am acting like a child, and I dont care that I am, I have tried the adult approach dozens of times in a circular arguement that always ends the same - 'Dont like it, dont use it', and the people that say it seem absolutely incapable of understanding how that doesnt apply, at all.
Fleabum wrote:

I think you did miss the point of my post in the other thread though. Your (part)quote had nothing to do with what I have said, which is how you can already achieve what you are looking for within the game design as it stands.

And you are missing my point.... I CANNOT already achieve what I am looking for within the game design as it stands and ENJOY it, and therefore I want Option A. Thats exactly why I quoted it...

Fleabum wrote:

...if you want to play a game as one life, aka, ironman, and it has auto saves, all you do is have some self-control and don’t use saves...

You see what you are saying, right? 'Be like me'. I am incapable of what you ask. And, Ironman IS NOT 'one life'. Ironman is 'one continuous save'. In the context of XCOM for example, it is 'accept losses', in the context of X4 it would be the same. Ironman is NOT 'dead-is-dead' - perhaps as you dont use it you dont understand exactly what the mode entails.

XCOM 2 to me was one of the best experiences in gaming ive ever had, same goes for This War of Mine - and you know why? It's because they had a feature that fits me perfectly, Ironman mode.

When it comes down it it, i'm not sure why you are arguing - I want a mode that would not effect you in any way, and you are actively attempting to tell me that the mode isnt relevant or worthwhile of development.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Killjaeden





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 5022 on topic
Location: Germany
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Wed, 11. Apr 18, 16:35    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nanook wrote:
There's no such thing as "cheating" in this kind of single player game. Rolling Eyes

Your statement is nonsense.

Cheating in singleplayer games absolutely exists. Players circumvent the rules of the game, wether direkt (using cheat codes or scripts) or indirect (gaming the system to gain advantage - like reloading several times to get a good dice roll in an event with random outcome). Other games decided to use methods and systems to reduce the impact of "save scumming" as it's sometimes called, because it was affecting their gameplay very negatively. For example by determining outcomes of random events long before they are shown on screen, to remove the players the possibility to "reroll" the dice by just reloading a save from 1 min ago over and over, until the effect they want happens.

The only thing that is true to say is, that singeplayer cheating doesn't affect anybody but the player himself, so people should not be judged for doing it.

"just use self-control" - If self-control would be easy, why do we have we have millions of addicts of illegal and legal drugs in the world, and countless other addictions ...

Giving people the option to help them with their "addiction" of gaming the system by save/reload will help them enjoy the game more. Trying to deny them this option seems like a very petty thing to me Rolling Eyes


_________________

XTC Mod Team Veteran. My current work:
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Nanook
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)



Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 25953 on topic
Location: In the X-Universe spanning two millenia
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Wed, 11. Apr 18, 19:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Killjaeden wrote:
Nanook wrote:
There's no such thing as "cheating" in this kind of single player game. Rolling Eyes

Your statement is nonsense....


No, it is not "nonsense"! In order to cheat, you have to be cheating someone out of something. Just exactly how are you cheating someone out of something if you enjoy how you're playing? Look up the definition of 'cheating' before you make a reply, please. Maybe then you'll understand the concept of a single player game vs cheating. Rolling Eyes


_________________
Having an Acronym Attack? See the Ego FAQ. Also now for Terran Conflict and Albion Prelude.
NOT an Egosoft employee.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tamina





Joined: 26 Jan 2014



PostPosted: Wed, 11. Apr 18, 20:19    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nanook wrote:
Look up the definition of 'cheating' before you make a reply, please.

I did. Nowhere does it say you have to cheat someone.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cheat
"Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage."

Bypassing game rules is cheating. Game rules are what defines a game.

The whole world yearns after freedom, yet each creature is in love with his chains; this is the first paradox and inextricable knot of our nature.


_________________
Code:
  /l、
゙(゚、 。 7
 l、゙ ~ヽ   /
 じしf_, )ノ
This is Tamina. Copy Tamina to your signature to help her achieve world domination.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nanook
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)



Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 25953 on topic
Location: In the X-Universe spanning two millenia
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Wed, 11. Apr 18, 21:02    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Tamina wrote:
Nanook wrote:
Look up the definition of 'cheating' before you make a reply, please.

I did. Nowhere does it say you have to cheat someone.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cheat
"Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage."...


Exactly why is it acting dishonestly or unfairly? Those terms by their very definition imply acting against someone else. Exactly how do you 'cheat' yourself in a single player game?

More to the point, games like the X series that are designed to be modded give tacit approval to 'changing the rules'. So again, how can that possibly be defined as cheating?

I have a real problem with people claiming that I'm 'cheating' just because I do something in my own game that affects no one else but may make it easier, and hence more enjoyable, for me to play my game. I have no time for such self righteousness Rolling Eyes


_________________
Having an Acronym Attack? See the Ego FAQ. Also now for Terran Conflict and Albion Prelude.
NOT an Egosoft employee.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
Control Panel
Login Data
The time now is Fri, 21. Sep 18, 05:44

All times are GMT + 2 Hours

[ Disclaimer / Impressum ] | [ Privacy Policy / Datenschutz ]

Board Security

Copyright © EGOSOFT 1989-2018
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Template created by Avatar & BurnIt!
Debug: page generation = 0.15525 seconds, sql queries = 29