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Karvat





Joined: 31 Jan 2018



PostPosted: Tue, 27. Mar 18, 14:43    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

In this case, however, being able to save and reload at any time, it satisfies both types of players...

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ero_sk





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PostPosted: Wed, 28. Mar 18, 18:55    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

It still doesn't have anything to do with logic.

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Axeface



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PostPosted: Wed, 28. Mar 18, 23:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I want to option to play an 'ironman' mode or something. I want to be forced to accept defeat or loss of assets (I said option, I am not asking to remove save load for those that want it).
Do not tell me the old 'if you dont like it dont use it' arguement, because that is a terrible arguement. If that was the case no developer would have ever made an ironman mode, becuase people can just choose to not reload? All games would have 'press X for godmode' because... just dont use it?

Options please.

EDIT: Oh, there it is...
Karvat wrote:
In this case, however, being able to save and reload at any time, it satisfies both types of players...

No, it does not. I am one of those players and im saying that it doesnt.

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ajime





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PostPosted: Thu, 29. Mar 18, 04:14    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I think the savegame options or any other ironman hurdles could follow based on difficulty settings imo. *looks at subnautica's creative mode where you don't die Very Happy

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Tamina





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PostPosted: Thu, 29. Mar 18, 11:52    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Len5 wrote:
Tamina wrote:
I like the "save & exit" function some games have. It temp-saves the current state, exits the game and after reload deletes the savegame again.

That's ok for a straight forward shooter, not for something like te X games.

Please tell me, how so?
It makes perfect sense, it doesn't give you the option to cheat, yet allows you to pause and continue the game whenever you want.

Another alternative would be a hard-difficulty option that deletes all your savegames not made with an insurance when you die. Razz

Axeface wrote:
If that was the case no developer would have ever made an ironman mode, becuase people can just choose to not reload? All games would have 'press X for godmode' because... just dont use it?

Good argument. We would all press X and it would be terrible.


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Nanook
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PostPosted: Thu, 29. Mar 18, 21:02    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Tamina wrote:
Len5 wrote:
Tamina wrote:
I like the "save & exit" function some games have. It temp-saves the current state, exits the game and after reload deletes the savegame again.

That's ok for a straight forward shooter, not for something like te X games.

Please tell me, how so?...


Because it doesn't allow the player to experiment. X games are so complex that being forced to follow a linear path, which is what your savegame option would be, is just way to restrictive. There's a simple answer - allow the player to decide if they wish to save or not, you know, player choice. Wink If you don't have the self control to not save/reload, that's your problem, not everyone else's. Razz

Oh, and your premise that using save/reload is cheating is nonsense. There's no such thing as "cheating" in this kind of single player game. Rolling Eyes


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Silla





Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Thu, 29. Mar 18, 21:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Axeface wrote:
I want to option to play an 'ironman' mode or something. I want to be forced to accept defeat or loss of assets (I said option, I am not asking to remove save load for those that want it).
Do not tell me the old 'if you dont like it dont use it' arguement, because that is a terrible arguement. If that was the case no developer would have ever made an ironman mode, becuase people can just choose to not reload? All games would have 'press X for godmode' because... just dont use it?

Options please.

EDIT: Oh, there it is...
Karvat wrote:
In this case, however, being able to save and reload at any time, it satisfies both types of players...

No, it does not. I am one of those players and im saying that it doesnt.


Totally agree an ironman mode should be part of the game. I mean ...honestly how hard can it be to have auto save timely and an auto save when leaving the game while deactivating buttons for save and load?

As said.... options!

Same goes for the option to be only able to save when on stations or all the time or as in ironman no manual save options at all.

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Nanook
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PostPosted: Thu, 29. Mar 18, 22:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

That's not really 'ironman' though. A player can simply copy the autosave to a different folder when they quit the game and save it for potential future use. So it would still come down to self control, wouldn't it? Wink


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Seanchaidh





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PostPosted: Thu, 29. Mar 18, 22:11    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

An ironman option where, instead of game over, you get teleported out of destroyed assets and continue after suffering that asset loss could be cool. The way saves currently work definitely encourages saving and reloading after any hardship. There is a huge amount of distance between that level of forgiving and "dead is dead".

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LittleBird





Joined: 19 Dec 2011



PostPosted: Thu, 29. Mar 18, 23:49    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nanook wrote:
That's not really 'ironman' though. A player can simply copy the autosave to a different folder when they quit the game and save it for potential future use. So it would still come down to self control, wouldn't it? Wink

Just hide the save file.
And if the player uses hex edit or other stuff to relocate it or writes a mod that makes a save file - just in case of course - ... then there was no self control in the first place Wink

@Seanchaidh
You mean instead of "dead is dead" it should be "lost is lost"? Basically autosave after losing ship or station? Interesting. I see some problems if you fight in a big battle but nothing unsolvable I think.


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Tamina





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PostPosted: Fri, 30. Mar 18, 01:43    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Nanook wrote:
Tamina wrote:
Len5 wrote:
Tamina wrote:
I like the "save & exit" function some games have. It temp-saves the current state, exits the game and after reload deletes the savegame again.

That's ok for a straight forward shooter, not for something like te X games.

Please tell me, how so?...


Because it doesn't allow the player to experiment. X games are so complex that being forced to follow a linear path, which is what your savegame option would be, is just way to restrictive. There's a simple answer - allow the player to decide if they wish to save or not, you know, player choice. Wink If you don't have the self control to not save/reload, that's your problem, not everyone else's. Razz

Oh, and your premise that using save/reload is cheating is nonsense. There's no such thing as "cheating" in this kind of single player game. Rolling Eyes

I meant additionally to insurance and auto-save options on stations.
Thrill and danger is what it is called, and it can be quite a satisfying rollercoaster Wink Tell me you wouldn't press X-for-God-mode at one point when you find yourself in an increasingly dangerous situation.
Instead of gratification you only receive the inevitable wisdom that all you do is useless and your life is meaningless. Why still work for anything if you had what you wanted all along?
When we have the choice we go the easy route. Razz


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Axeface



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PostPosted: Fri, 30. Mar 18, 07:51    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Tamina wrote:

When we have the choice we go the easy route. Razz


Yep. And if you actually think about it save and reload IS god mode, there is no situation the player cant overcome in a save-load game, ever.

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Fleabum





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PostPosted: Fri, 30. Mar 18, 14:07    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

This is down to the playstyle of the player, and if you want to play one life, then they don't reload any possible saved games. I don't see you need an option for disabling saved games, if you want to play like that, just don't use saved games... simples.

Now having some sort of middle ground, whereas you lose resources (ship, credits, etc) in the event of dying, that might be an interesting combination. One way to implement it could be that you have to have a clone stored on a starbase that gets activated in the event of your main 'shell' dying. These clones would have to be purchased and have a ongoing maintenance cost associated with them.

Regards
Flea

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Kane Hart



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PostPosted: Fri, 30. Mar 18, 14:23    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I decided to throw out a random idea. What about Ironman mode? The idea is you can't save in normal conditions you have to do it via a more complex or challenging condition that suits the more hardcore crowed.

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Nanook
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PostPosted: Fri, 30. Mar 18, 23:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Axeface wrote:
Tamina wrote:

When we have the choice we go the easy route. Razz


Yep. And if you actually think about it save and reload IS god mode, there is no situation the player cant overcome in a save-load game, ever.


Oh, this is so not true. I see posts, especially from newer players, all the time bemoaning the fact that either something bad happened and they hadn't saved for a long time, or they saved over their only savegame and realized that something bad had happened previously that they now can't recover from.

Additionally, games have bugs. If one happens and you don't notice it at the time (which happened a lot in some of the TC and AP plots, btw), what happens when you can't restore from a previous save? Starting over is what happens, and that frustrates and turns players off the game. Somehow I don't think that is in Egosoft's best interest.

So no, it's not 'god mode'. It's a feature that allows a player to keep on playing their game after something bad or unfortunate happened, whether it was caused by the game or the player. X games are long term building games. They aren't really meant as an adrenaline rush game. If that's what someone is looking for, then there are many, many other options for that kind of gameplay. It's a 4X game, not a shooter. Razz

You want an 'ironman' style, then be an 'ironman' with your self control and don't use savegames. Egosoft shouldn't have to be your nanny. Rolling Eyes


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