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Free speech or hate speech?
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Is this an example of Free Speech or hate speech?
Its a Joke (perhaps in poor taste)
66%
 66%  [ 12 ]
Hate speech
11%
 11%  [ 2 ]
Lemons!
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Other (explain)
16%
 16%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 18

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clakclak





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PostPosted: Sun, 25. Mar 18, 21:07    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Morkonan wrote:
Chips wrote:
Quote:
But, isn't "intent" a critical part of UK law in this regard?


Nope. At least, not as far as I am aware.


But, that's what the entry in the Wiki that you posted directly states.[...]


Wikipedia article wrote:
[...]words or behavior intending or likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress or cause a breach of the peace[...]



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Morkonan





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PostPosted: Sun, 25. Mar 18, 21:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

clakclak wrote:
Morkonan wrote:
Chips wrote:
Quote:
But, isn't "intent" a critical part of UK law in this regard?


Nope. At least, not as far as I am aware.


But, that's what the entry in the Wiki that you posted directly states.[...]


Wikipedia article wrote:
[...]words or behavior intending or likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress or cause a breach of the peace[...]


Yes, "intent or likely." That "or likely" relies on the defendant's own interpretation, doesn't it?

His intent and the obvious interpretation of his own actions inasmuch as what he thought the result would be is... "a joke." He obviously didn't "likely" think that posting it would be harassment, alarm, distress, etc...

I have no working, colloquial, familiarity with the word "cheeky" and its use in the UK. I've heard it, of course, in many movies and have read it in several forms, but I'm not intimate with its interpretation. Here's a standard: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/cheeky I assume that's basically a correct interpretation?

If that is the case, then couldn't this behavior, isolated in context between himself and his girlfriend, be considered "cheeky behavior" and it's intent not to actually result in some hefty negative repercussions, but just as a bit of an intimate joke? I assume he wasn't trying to get rid of her.

I still think it was a dumb thing to do. I wholeheartedly agree that he was stupid. I also hope that his girlfriend slapped him in her outrage... (Not promoting assault or abuse! Razz ) And, I really don't understand why anyone watches his youtube channel. I'm also not trying to actively defend him, since I, too, have emotions and enjoy, somewhat, seeing him get his comeuppance... Smile

But, it is a case of law. The government, apparently, considers this a crime worthy of punishment and I do find that concerning. I'm also trying to understand how those who are more intimate with those laws and used to their specific implementation feel about this. :This constitutes my "disclaimer" for presenting an opposing argument. Smile

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PostPosted: Sun, 25. Mar 18, 23:35    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Morkonan wrote:
...That "or likely" relies on the defendant's own interpretation, doesn't it?

No, it relies on the Judge's or jury's interpretation (depending on how the case is being heard) but very often will be based on case law (ie precedent). Although not law itself, the phrase 'Ignorance is no defense in the eyes of the law' applies - just because the perpetrator was ignorant of the likelihood of the impact of their actions does not bean they get away with doing anything they want.


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Observe





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PostPosted: Mon, 26. Mar 18, 00:25    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I can see how actions displaying a lack of sensitivity to others in the community, could be construed as a 'hate crime' for various and obvious reasons.

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PostPosted: Mon, 26. Mar 18, 00:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Meanwhile, a different case, but similar in some respects relating to free speech:

French Man Praises Police Death, Is Arrested For Apologizing For Terrorism

It seems the French have a law 'prohibiting apologizing for terrorism' punishable by a fine of $120,000 USD and seven years in prison.

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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 18, 13:29    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43864133


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The problem with 'freedom of speech' is it makes wackos think they have something of value to say.

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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 18, 16:53    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

HOW CAN HE BE GUILTY OF A HATE CRIME WHEN IT WAS COMMITTED BY HIS DOG?

(I bet it really wasn't the dog's fault, either. Likely it was some cat that misinformed the dog, leading it astray from its Good Boy path... Gotta be the cat's fault.)

Isn't the state guilty of a hate crime against Nazis? They should sue!

And, what about that newspaper? Looks like a "biased article" to me and I am an expert on such things because I said so. So, they need to be investigated, too. (Probably committed numerous hate crimes, since if you connect certain letters together in their weekly crossword puzzles, you can spell "communist donkey lovur!" I think they intentionally misspelled "lover" in hopes of throwing people off or so they could have a ready explanation.)

And, I wonder - Why do I appear to hate Nazis and stand up for them at the same time, all the while blaming cats for the original problem and then speaking out against communist donkeys? I SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED FOR TEH HATEZ CRIMEZ! Oh noes!

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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 18, 17:07    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Careful Mork, I might have to edit my sig Smile.


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clakclak





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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 18, 17:24    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Looking back in this story everything around it seems stupid.


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Ketraar
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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 18, 17:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

clakclak wrote:
Looking back in this story everything around it seems stupid.

Sums up pretty much my stance on this. But I will add that I rather have a stupid guy be able to post stupid videos about nazis and how he likes them, then not. Doesn't mean others cant then call them out on their stupidity in the same form.

I understand some countries have laws that prevent advocating for some types of regime, like here in Portugal its not allowed to promote for fascism, so any rally like in Charlottesville would be considered illegal.

MFG

Ketraar

PS.: As I was reading through the topic I found this rather funny.
Quote:
Basically Observe a man who is known by his youtube name as Count Dankula

So Observe is Count Dankula? Very Happy
Lack of punctuation gives me the freedom to read it as I fit.

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Skism





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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 18, 19:14    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ketraar wrote:
clakclak wrote:
Looking back in this story everything around it seems stupid.

Sums up pretty much my stance on this. But I will add that I rather have a stupid guy be able to post stupid videos about nazis and how he likes them, then not. Doesn't mean others cant then call them out on their stupidity in the same form.

I understand some countries have laws that prevent advocating for some types of regime, like here in Portugal its not allowed to promote for fascism, so any rally like in Charlottesville would be considered illegal.

MFG

Ketraar

PS.: As I was reading through the topic I found this rather funny.
Quote:
Basically Observe a man who is known by his youtube name as Count Dankula

So Observe is Count Dankula? Very Happy
Lack of punctuation gives me the freedom to read it as I fit.


Punctuation? This IEH tTEH INTERNET!!

You are lucky if you get spelling much less coherence....And you are asking for the moon with concise accurate decent points.... Wink

Btw
Quote:
Lack of punctuation gives me the freedom to read it as I fit.


That should say" Lack of punctuation gives me the freedom to read it as I see fit."



Rolling Eyes


There are two problems here one is how we deal with Neo- Nazis how their ilk.

The other how much we are willing to bend principles like freedom of speech to allow things like it - and what we sacrifice both by cracking down on Neo Nazis or alternatively by allowing them.


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Ketraar
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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Apr 18, 19:35    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Skism wrote:
The other how much we are willing to bend principles like freedom of speech to allow things like it - and what we sacrifice both by cracking down on Neo Nazis or alternatively by allowing them.

This are two distinct and not mutually exclusive notions.

1. you dont bend freedom of expression, you regulate it just like any other social concept. You define its parameters and act on it, revisit it periodically and adjust it, as societies evolve so it fits the standards of the times.

2. You dont tolerate the existence of people that go beyond established basic rights. You call them out and if they break the law then the law takes care of it.

Its rather simple.

MFG

Ketraar

PS.: As for the spelling, it was a joke... Shocked

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