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kohlrak





Joined: 28 Dec 2017



PostPosted: Sun, 14. Jan 18, 08:47    Post subject: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

Split scanned your ship and did not find any illegal goods onboard.

I know spaceweed is legal in Teladi sectors (actually, i'm setting up shop trying to raid spaceweed dealers and sell it myself while monitoring my silicon plants [on that note, the trade station buys spaceweed, which seems to be why it comes through, but now that i sold some, i'm not finding smugglers anymore], since the Kha'ak started showing up and i'm far from ready to fight them reliably [btw, did they fix the bug involving being able to cap them without the specs, or am I just really unlucky?]).

I'm finding certain topics about X2 really, really hard to google, too. Most end up on posts here, and out of them they seem to be before the last 2 patches. I feel like this game could use a wiki, but it also seems too niche to get enough support to be as comprehensive as it needs to be.

EDIT: Just had a ship in split territory with space fuel, and "surrender" didn't make him drop it. I do have a split police license.

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Timsup2nothin





Joined: 22 Jan 2009



PostPosted: Sun, 14. Jan 18, 10:14    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I dunno about X2, but in the later games spaceflies are not illegal in Split space. They are treated just like spaceweed in Teladi space, ie, ignored.


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PostPosted: Sun, 14. Jan 18, 12:33    Post subject: Re: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

kohlrak wrote:
Most end up on posts here, and out of them they seem to be before the last 2 patches.


As far I know there were no changes made to the legality of good in the last couple of patches. As Timsuptonothing said, space flies are legal in Split space and illegal everywhere else, Spaceweed is legal in Teladi space and illegal everywhere else, and I'm pretty sure spacefuel is illegal everywhere. (Pirate and Xenon sectors being exceptions, obviously, neither of them care what cargo you carry through their sectors).

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Handler-R



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PostPosted: Sun, 14. Jan 18, 12:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

in X2, Spaceful was legal in the Argon space.
That changed with X3 Reunion i think

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kohlrak





Joined: 28 Dec 2017



PostPosted: Sun, 14. Jan 18, 12:58    Post subject: Re: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

pjknibbs wrote:
kohlrak wrote:
Most end up on posts here, and out of them they seem to be before the last 2 patches.


As far I know there were no changes made to the legality of good in the last couple of patches. As Timsuptonothing said, space flies are legal in Split space and illegal everywhere else, Spaceweed is legal in Teladi space and illegal everywhere else, and I'm pretty sure spacefuel is illegal everywhere. (Pirate and Xenon sectors being exceptions, obviously, neither of them care what cargo you carry through their sectors).


I stand corrected, but the comment about old documentation is more big picture than that: for example, i read on a post on steam that you can't catch Kha'ak ships after buying their data as some sort of bug. I don't know if that was fixed, if it was never a problem, or what. I keep running into information in one post on an issue, only to run into a late comment that says "it'll probably get fixed in the next patch" or "this is a bug introduced with patch x.y" or "this is not a bug" and necroing here seems discouraged, so i'm a bit unsure when certain issues are fixed, if they weren't issues, etc. I figure the real issue is that you could cap kha'ak ships at all without the data, but the rest of the issues are a bit different, especially if you don't know which game a particular post is for. For example, I read all about these SPPs in The Wall, but i just read a post here that didn't even include The Wall in it's list of best plants, and that post was made based on pure number crunching.

EDIT: And i have no idea how to go about that Split M3 that was carrying space fuel in Family Whi. I C - 3ed (called, told to surrender), and he told me to buzz off, stayed blue. I figured i could then shoot him up like they would me, but lost rep. I don't even know how to go about finding a previous thread addressing what probably happened, yet i'm sure there's one out there.

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Timsup2nothin





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PostPosted: Sun, 14. Jan 18, 17:44    Post subject: Re: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

kohlrak wrote:

EDIT: And i have no idea how to go about that Split M3 that was carrying space fuel in Family Whi. I C - 3ed (called, told to surrender), and he told me to buzz off, stayed blue. I figured i could then shoot him up like they would me, but lost rep. I don't even know how to go about finding a previous thread addressing what probably happened, yet i'm sure there's one out there.


As you noted, necro threads are discouraged here, so you have hit upon the easiest approach...start a new thread and ask. There's a surprising flow of traffic through this forum, given the age of the games, and you will usually cause a discussion that will get you a more or less up to date answer.

As to Mr Split...odd situation and again I'm no X2 expert. Speaking in generalities if he doesn't reveal as a designated "pirate M3" then attacking him is a problem. Since he did not reveal as a pirate when you scanned him the most obvious conclusion is that he just isn't a pirate, but that opens the question of how a non-pirate got space fuel in their cargo.

I've never verified it, but in X3AP I would swear that I've seen NPC ships pick up cargo containers, I think just by the simple accident of running into them because they were in the way. Since such accidental cargo may never mesh up with their designated task scripts it seems possible they would just carry it around for however long it takes them to meet an untimely demise.

Perhaps someone with more expertise in X2 collision mechanics and containers could tell us if such a thing is possible. I could see a series of events where some unlucky M3 running a 'Split military patrol' script eats a container of abandoned space fuel and then crosses paths with an eager law enforcer though, and the Split military script would have no provision for turning into a pirate, or turning red, or...well...doing anything other than telling you to buzz off.


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Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!
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jlehtone



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PostPosted: Sun, 14. Jan 18, 18:43    Post subject: Re: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

Timsup2nothin wrote:
Perhaps someone with more expertise in X2 collision mechanics and containers could tell us if such a thing is possible.

If a player wants to scoop up a container in X2, the bay doors have to be open. In other words collecting is a deliberate action and the default is to ram to dust.

The X3 do not have bay doors; collecting is the default action and only the items that do not fit, will blow up.


This, obviously, does not say anything about the non-player ships. The autopilot does have Collect Ware(s) -commands, so other ships of the player can collect. Would a NPC "collect" by "random", unlike all the others?

Furthermore, do containers spawn/remain in X2, unless you are in the sector?


Why would anyone have weed in bay without being a Pirate? Have you never traded in Herron's Nebula without considering yourself a Pirate? Rolling Eyes


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kohlrak





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PostPosted: Sun, 14. Jan 18, 20:29    Post subject: Re: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

Timsup2nothin wrote:
kohlrak wrote:

EDIT: And i have no idea how to go about that Split M3 that was carrying space fuel in Family Whi. I C - 3ed (called, told to surrender), and he told me to buzz off, stayed blue. I figured i could then shoot him up like they would me, but lost rep. I don't even know how to go about finding a previous thread addressing what probably happened, yet i'm sure there's one out there.


As you noted, necro threads are discouraged here, so you have hit upon the easiest approach...start a new thread and ask. There's a surprising flow of traffic through this forum, given the age of the games, and you will usually cause a discussion that will get you a more or less up to date answer.


That i did notice, which creates a conondrum: Any new post will further saturate the google responses which leads to people not finding the up to date answer if the top results are old posts. That said, it's not my place to question the community's policies, especially as someone who's new to it. That said, i wish there was a more productive way, especially as difficult as it is to google the game already. And then, we'll have repeated convos thanks to answers already being out there, most likely, but being next to impossible to find.

Quote:
As to Mr Split...odd situation and again I'm no X2 expert. Speaking in generalities if he doesn't reveal as a designated "pirate M3" then attacking him is a problem. Since he did not reveal as a pirate when you scanned him the most obvious conclusion is that he just isn't a pirate, but that opens the question of how a non-pirate got space fuel in their cargo.

I've never verified it, but in X3AP I would swear that I've seen NPC ships pick up cargo containers, I think just by the simple accident of running into them because they were in the way. Since such accidental cargo may never mesh up with their designated task scripts it seems possible they would just carry it around for however long it takes them to meet an untimely demise.

Perhaps someone with more expertise in X2 collision mechanics and containers could tell us if such a thing is possible. I could see a series of events where some unlucky M3 running a 'Split military patrol' script eats a container of abandoned space fuel and then crosses paths with an eager law enforcer though, and the Split military script would have no provision for turning into a pirate, or turning red, or...well...doing anything other than telling you to buzz off.


I tried to figure this out myself, but as far as player ships are concerned, the cargo bay doors must be open, which is really annoying when collecting those space flies, since there's a cooldown between catching one and moving onto the next. Top it off with the fact that the AI version doesn't even bother tracking the space flies as cargo in the cargo pickup function. Though, interestingly enough, i don't get the shields down warnings when using that script to pick up cargo. It's possible...

jlehtone wrote:
Timsup2nothin wrote:
Perhaps someone with more expertise in X2 collision mechanics and containers could tell us if such a thing is possible.

If a player wants to scoop up a container in X2, the bay doors have to be open. In other words collecting is a deliberate action and the default is to ram to dust.

The X3 do not have bay doors; collecting is the default action and only the items that do not fit, will blow up.


This, obviously, does not say anything about the non-player ships. The autopilot does have Collect Ware(s) -commands, so other ships of the player can collect. Would a NPC "collect" by "random", unlike all the others?


Given how the auto-command doesn't seem to give the shields down warning, I think it actually doesn't have to be open. That said, i still expect some sort of bounce. Not sure what it's up to.

Quote:
Furthermore, do containers spawn/remain in X2, unless you are in the sector?


I don't think so, actually. He easily could've been one of the patrols going after the pirate ships, though. I was monitoring the west gate, looking for space weed peddlers. The east gate has a bunch of M3s and something else rather large just hovering over the gate due to the constant flow of pirate ships (almost as bad as the Xenon in black sun).

What i've experienced is, Treasure Chest's method of eliminating Xenon you can almost always find cargo containers in there. Sometimes they're in there as i go in there, but if you set a ship in there, they never show up in OOS mode, at least from what i've seen.

Quote:
Why would anyone have weed in bay without being a Pirate? Have you never traded in Herron's Nebula without considering yourself a Pirate? Rolling Eyes


That's what i'm confused on. I figured the script or whatever that checks for this would check the cargo bay on comm check instead of building a secret flag on a ship that makes him a pirate then throwing something illegal on him. That said, i'd love for some kind of trick to find contraband easier. Hitting i+enter+pgdn+pgdn+pgdn gets really old after a while, especially if you're not finding anything, which is why i got so excited on the M3 with booze. Sure, i could just not do it, but i'd also like to know how it even works. I have yet to actually bust somebody. I feel like there might be something i should be doing that i'm not.

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lyonhaert





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PostPosted: Sun, 14. Jan 18, 21:30    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

All this talk of whether ships can even accidentally pick up contraband has me thinking: can I plant it on them? I'm going to find a N/S or E/W sector, match speed in front of a TS, and drop something to see if they catch it.

Edit: Okay, it's possible (X3:TC), but since the hitbox of the container has to contact the hitbox of the ship, it's rather difficult. Too close, and they'll turn. Mind you, I was doing this in a Chokaro so that I could keep all but the one unit of cargo I was about to drop hidden in a fighter. In a ship that allowed for better eyeballing of the target (or a larger target), it could be pretty simple. Definitely doesn't seem worth doing, but ships can at least accidentally pick up cargo.



Last edited by lyonhaert on Sun, 14. Jan 18, 22:20; edited 1 time in total
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Timsup2nothin





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PostPosted: Sun, 14. Jan 18, 22:04    Post subject: Re: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

kohlrak wrote:

That's what i'm confused on. I figured the script or whatever that checks for this would check the cargo bay on comm check instead of building a secret flag on a ship that makes him a pirate then throwing something illegal on him. That said, i'd love for some kind of trick to find contraband easier. Hitting i+enter+pgdn+pgdn+pgdn gets really old after a while, especially if you're not finding anything, which is why i got so excited on the M3 with booze. Sure, i could just not do it, but i'd also like to know how it even works. I have yet to actually bust somebody. I feel like there might be something i should be doing that i'm not.


Again the disclaimer that I know nothing of X2 and can only say how things work in X3.

Some "pirate" ships will travel as some sort of "cover" until they are scanned, but when scanned will be revealed as pirates even if they don't have any contraband on board. Since someone mentioned trading in Herron's Nebula; scanning "energy traders" that are headed for distilleries will sometimes reveal them as pirates. That was what led me to think that the change is specifically not triggered by the cargo.

That, by the way, has been the key to my rare successes with 'policing missions.' Instead of running everybody down to get in scanner range I look at the sector map (X2 have that?) and hit "information" on each ship to see where they are headed. Very few ships that aren't pirates will show as headed for pirate type places, and as long as you aren't borderline hostile with any of the races then very few ships that aren't pirates will not show their destination. That makes a much more limited list to chase down and scan, and gives better odds when you scan them.


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On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!
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zazie



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PostPosted: Mon, 15. Jan 18, 12:23    Post subject: Re: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

jlehtone wrote:
Would a NPC "collect" by "random", unlike all the others?

In X3-Reunion I have encountered at several occasions NPC-ships collecting missile-boxes deliberately, not by random. I remember having asked a question (probably in the German Forum) about this. Seeing an NPC-Harrier 'stealing' a 3-Moskito Box only a couple of meters in front of your ship, coming straight from above at about 450 m/s, is unforgettable Cool .

This was back in those beginner-days when you pick up every Mosquito and other equipment to make those valuable first 100'000 cr Very Happy

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kohlrak





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PostPosted: Mon, 15. Jan 18, 16:23    Post subject: Re: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

lyonhaert wrote:
All this talk of whether ships can even accidentally pick up contraband has me thinking: can I plant it on them? I'm going to find a N/S or E/W sector, match speed in front of a TS, and drop something to see if they catch it.

Edit: Okay, it's possible (X3:TC), but since the hitbox of the container has to contact the hitbox of the ship, it's rather difficult. Too close, and they'll turn. Mind you, I was doing this in a Chokaro so that I could keep all but the one unit of cargo I was about to drop hidden in a fighter. In a ship that allowed for better eyeballing of the target (or a larger target), it could be pretty simple. Definitely doesn't seem worth doing, but ships can at least accidentally pick up cargo.


One quick question: Why?

Timsup2nothin wrote:
kohlrak wrote:

That's what i'm confused on. I figured the script or whatever that checks for this would check the cargo bay on comm check instead of building a secret flag on a ship that makes him a pirate then throwing something illegal on him. That said, i'd love for some kind of trick to find contraband easier. Hitting i+enter+pgdn+pgdn+pgdn gets really old after a while, especially if you're not finding anything, which is why i got so excited on the M3 with booze. Sure, i could just not do it, but i'd also like to know how it even works. I have yet to actually bust somebody. I feel like there might be something i should be doing that i'm not.


Again the disclaimer that I know nothing of X2 and can only say how things work in X3.

Some "pirate" ships will travel as some sort of "cover" until they are scanned, but when scanned will be revealed as pirates even if they don't have any contraband on board. Since someone mentioned trading in Herron's Nebula; scanning "energy traders" that are headed for distilleries will sometimes reveal them as pirates. That was what led me to think that the change is specifically not triggered by the cargo.

That, by the way, has been the key to my rare successes with 'policing missions.' Instead of running everybody down to get in scanner range I look at the sector map (X2 have that?) and hit "information" on each ship to see where they are headed. Very few ships that aren't pirates will show as headed for pirate type places, and as long as you aren't borderline hostile with any of the races then very few ships that aren't pirates will not show their destination. That makes a much more limited list to chase down and scan, and gives better odds when you scan them.


Gotta manually track them in X2. Which isn't impossible, but what bothers me is that i've found contraband on a few vessels already and I can't get them to drop it or else.

zazie wrote:
jlehtone wrote:
Would a NPC "collect" by "random", unlike all the others?

In X3-Reunion I have encountered at several occasions NPC-ships collecting missile-boxes deliberately, not by random. I remember having asked a question (probably in the German Forum) about this. Seeing an NPC-Harrier 'stealing' a 3-Moskito Box only a couple of meters in front of your ship, coming straight from above at about 450 m/s, is unforgettable Cool .

This was back in those beginner-days when you pick up every Mosquito and other equipment to make those valuable first 100'000 cr Very Happy


It drives me nuts as it is watching cargo disappear after a rough battle. It's like "here i go after this one." 2 seconds before the touch "boom!" So i go to the next one, same thing happens. The game is teasing me.

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PostPosted: Mon, 15. Jan 18, 17:39    Post subject: Re: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

kohlrak wrote:
It drives me nuts as it is watching cargo disappear after a rough battle. It's like "here i go after this one." 2 seconds before the touch "boom!" So i go to the next one, same thing happens. The game is teasing me.

Duration and value have probably an inverse relation.


Having a (TS) ship around, collecting loot from your trail, is a possible future. Then again, getting that big drop, sending the collector, and then seeing a new batch of enemy to appear closer to your janitor than you will produce adrenalin (and/or despair).


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kohlrak





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PostPosted: Mon, 15. Jan 18, 18:31    Post subject: Re: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

jlehtone wrote:
kohlrak wrote:
It drives me nuts as it is watching cargo disappear after a rough battle. It's like "here i go after this one." 2 seconds before the touch "boom!" So i go to the next one, same thing happens. The game is teasing me.

Duration and value have probably an inverse relation.


Having a (TS) ship around, collecting loot from your trail, is a possible future. Then again, getting that big drop, sending the collector, and then seeing a new batch of enemy to appear closer to your janitor than you will produce adrenalin (and/or despair).


Yeah, so I came to the conclusion that either I need to dedicate a janitor that's worth more than he's doing (most likely a goner if i can find one that actually bails on command, since i don't want to loose goner rep), or i'm not going to collect. Realistically, anymore, if i get loot i get loot, but i'm more interested in capping and selling pirate ships to try to up the game of my trading stations. My next step in trading is probably going to be a crystal fab and possibly a bofu plant if i keep having to go so far away, 'cause the kha'ak keep destroying the one transport ship i have, so i have to reload. I don't have enough to give it escorts.

I'd really like to catch a kha'ak m3, too, since then i might be able to use those lasers to escort. I'm a bit far behind for the kha'ak to be showing up this early, but i'm not throwing in the towel and restarting using my new knowledge. I'm going to persevere, no matter if I have to fly the pirate ship myself. It'd be nice if i could go around catching raiders and space flies and not have to worry about my transport(s), but i'm too poor for that when the Kha'ak are ruining my day. I made alot of the wrong investments, but that bayamon gave me an edge that I don't think i would've had otherwise, so i don't want to waste it. Currently, the bayamon is my runner (thanks to jump drive), saving the disco for feels, because i don't think it'd even be worth selling it at this point, I have a pirate ship (as supply), I'm running a silicon mine in Getsu Fune (i should've waited for the extra thousand or so for the ore mine, but i figured the silicon was good enough for now [boy, was i wrong]), and an SPP a stone's throw from the west gate in Menelaus's Paradise, because energy is a premium there and i got protection and can even sell the crystals at 20 a piece and still get the auto-traders coming. I just need to get the Kha'ak to leave my transport alone (Realistically ,the orinoco i'm wielding should be able to keep up with it, but i really hate to babysit freighters [I only know about the kha'ak issue because of sleeping with SETA on just to see what would happen, and i should've taken note of the message log before i quit and reloaded a save, but i didn't]).

I really wish the Kha'ak would leave the pirate ships i capture alone, because capping another 2 orinoco would easily pay for another station, but I'm going to have to babysit the freighter, unless i put the works on hold until i can get those other stations paid for with hunts.

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lyonhaert





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PostPosted: Mon, 15. Jan 18, 18:31    Post subject: Re: Updated Information? Reply with quote Print

kohlrak wrote:
One quick question: Why?
Mostly because I could. My thought was to see if it could make a different approach to scanning missions feasible.

I'm still kindof in my "new toy" phase with this game, so I tend to do whatever experiments pop into my head to understand more about how the game works and what can/can't be exploited.

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