Star Wars - The Last Jedi (may contain spoilers)

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Skism
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Post by Skism » Wed, 3. Jan 18, 21:52

Ketraar wrote:Sorry, I'm not going to try and convince you to like a movie you dont like. But I stand by the statement that fans have (and should not have) any say in how any creative work is done BY OTHERS. You can criticise it and dislike it AFTER its done and then based on what the creation is and not what you would have done. :roll:

If you like to explain why you think the plot is a joke, I dont mind read it, but dont feed me stuff others write in an attempt to convince me. I watched and read many different people's take on the movie and many I understand (while not agreeing), but some are just ludicrous fanboyisms.
Skism wrote:Its now down to 50% User score on Rotten tomatoes will it achieve the ultimate dishonor and go below 50%? Time will tell. ;)
Who cares, it could be 0 for all I care, it wont make it bad movie for me. That is not how opinions work. :-P

MFG

Ketraar
See this is called dismissing your market - and its a really bad idea that results in poor financials.

http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/19/st ... ce-awakens

It has also experienced 68.9% drop in its weekend to weekend box office, and a 77% drop in its Friday to Friday box office. This is below every single Star Wars film Audiences have spoken and they are not impressed.

Now why is that significant?

Well several reasons actually

https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jo ... -jedi.html

Before exhibitors can begin screening "Star Wars: The Last Jedi" this December, they must first commit to a set of top-secret terms that numerous theater owners say are the most onerous they've ever seen. Disney will receive about 65% of ticket-sales revenue from the film, a new benchmark for a Hollywood studio. Disney is also requiring theaters to show the movie in their largest auditorium for at least four weeks.

Ignoring the terms carries an unusual penalty. If a theater violates any condition of the distribution agreement, Disney can charge it an additional 5%, bringing the studio's total haul to 70% of sales on a movie likely to gross more than $500 million at the domestic box office.
Toward the end of a monthlong run, Mr. Akin said he would be unable to swap in more popular titles and instead have to play "Last Jedi" to near-empty auditoriums -- while still giving Disney 65% of those paltry sales. The studio is applying the 65% split across all weeks of the film's release, rather than some studios' practice of beginning a split at a high figure and then lowering it in subsequent weeks.
And this just in:

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/12/holida ... 201912175/

Thats Jumanji outperforming the Last Jedi

Star Wars for gods sake is being nearly beaten by something that is a total unknown.

Thats why you should care

Oh and also its just frankly a bad movie
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest."

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Rice
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Post by Rice » Wed, 3. Jan 18, 22:31

Jumanji, wasnt that the Boardgame which makes the gameplot comes true or even Snatch peoples until the game has been continued? ;P
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Skism
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Post by Skism » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 00:26

Rice wrote:Jumanji, wasnt that the Boardgame which makes the gameplot comes true or even Snatch peoples until the game has been continued? ;P
Yeah.

And thats nearly outperforming the Latest Star Wars

STAR WARS for Gods sake

only one of the most iconic series of the last 40 years.

Just goes to show the damage that the SJW (Social Justice Warrior for the uninitiated) can do

This is what happens when you submit to their narrative: among many things your market value tanks.
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Ketraar
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Post by Ketraar » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 00:29

Skism, you can throw all this stats at me all day, I... dont... care. I saw Blade Runner 2049 and it was one of the greatest movies in recent years, its fantastic. Its much better than any Star Wars movie by a large margin, but it made no/little money in the box office, so by your logic it must be a bad movie. :roll:

Seriously, Pirates made a gazillion cash, Triple X did, Transformers did, Furious crap did, does that make them good movies, heck no they all are garbage fast food crap. So yeah I could not care less what the "market" says. SW was a good movie and one of the better Star Wars movies.

MFG

Ketraar

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Post by Skism » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 01:19

Ketraar wrote:Skism, you can throw all this stats at me all day, I... dont... care. I saw Blade Runner 2049 and it was one of the greatest movies in recent years, its fantastic. Its much better than any Star Wars movie by a large margin, but it made no/little money in the box office, so by your logic it must be a bad movie. :roll:

Seriously, Pirates made a gazillion cash, Triple X did, Transformers did, Furious crap did, does that make them good movies, heck no they all are garbage fast food crap. So yeah I could not care less what the "market" says. SW was a good movie and one of the better Star Wars movies.

MFG

Ketraar
Oh I get that you don't care, I get that you won't accept stats.

I get it and I am not surprised in the slightest.

You have offered no evidence though for it being a good movie, but continue to repeat that it is.

But I'm not surprised you are doubling down

But hey if Star Wars going down the tubes doesn’t bother you well what can I say?




:? :? :?
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Ketraar
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Post by Ketraar » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 02:07

Well not that I need to provide "evidence" to justify my subjective opinion about entertainment. I did though state what I liked and what I didnt, this usually is enough to indicate the origin, or evidence if you like, which I base my opinion on.

I can repeat it if you like, stuff like the action set-pieces, most of the twists and character arcs and choices made by the director. The score and sound design was great, the cinematography was good too. So these are "evidence" that make TLJ a good movie, its not a great movie because some choices, like the Canto Bight fetch quest, didnt land with me and they felt out of place.

But I didnt go into the movie expecting specifc things, I never go to movies with that mind set, as chances are my imagination will not match the directors vision, in fact if a movie fails to surprise me on any level it makes it less appealing to me, I want escapism, I dont require my opinion validated or my made-up story confirmed.
But hey if Star Wars going down the tubes doesn’t bother you well what can I say?
Why should it bother me? Its a movie, its not the cure to cancer or the meaning of life. If they make the movies crap I dont go and watch them, pretty simple, there are plenty movies, some are actually good, if its a good Star Wars movie even better. :-)

MFG

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ezra-r
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Post by ezra-r » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 02:19

Ketraar wrote:...

Its a thing these days, where "fans" feel they are entitled to have a say in the creative process of others, I find it both interesting and equally infuriating...
Not sure if you are venting your frustrations to me here or answering to me for something I said, surely not my case in anything I said.

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Post by Golden_Gonads » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 10:28

Skism wrote:And thats nearly outperforming the Latest Star Wars STAR WARS for Gods sake only one of the most iconic series of the last 40 years.
I've no idea where you got that information, but its... Wrong. Jumanji has taken around $350 million worldwide thus far, whilst Star Wars has taken around $1.1 Billion. Indeed, The Last Jedi is already the 19th highest grossing film of all time.

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Post by philip_hughes » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 11:34

I liked it when they smoked snoke. Very unexpected. I hate movies with predictable arcs. Tlj had many twists which should be applauded.
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Post by Rive » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 12:13

philip_hughes wrote:I liked it when they smoked snoke. Very unexpected. I hate movies with predictable arcs. Tlj had many twists which should be applauded.
Almost exactly my thoughts.

As a movie alone, without context, it's just acceptable.
As a rebellious part of the whole old Star Wars series/universe, it can be considered 'great' (or a 'failure', depending on one's point of view).

Nostalgic feelings aside, the original series (ep. IV, V, VI) are also not up to the actual standards. They are from the same age as the BSG TOS, and if somebody has the necessary masochist mindset to watch them together then plenty of similarities can be found. Yet, the BSG needed a complete redo to resurrect the brand, while SW lived on based on the legend alone. But that also means that it could not really evolve and stuck in the past.

The 'great' part of this movie is that many old plot 'solutions' were broken down to fit some new 'realities' on by one. If this is an opening of a new era and they will have the guts to continue, then I'll just accept it and go on with the flow. It'll be interesting.

If they can't follow up, then I'll just forget this movie and go on with my nostalgic feelings towards the extended universe.

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Post by Bishop149 » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 12:47

Ketraar wrote: Seriously, Pirates made a gazillion cash, Triple X did, Transformers did, Furious crap did, does that make them good movies, heck no they all are garbage fast food crap. So yeah I could not care less what the "market" says. SW was a good movie and one of the better Star Wars movies.
This is a good point, arguing that popularity is reflective of quality is silly, as is made obvious by complete garbage piles making billions and masterful pieces of cinematic art bombing.
In fact it applies far more generally than just movies. . . . . I mean look at the popular crap that passes for "coffee" these days. . . . . or beer. :roll:
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Post by Antilogic » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 13:07

Skism wrote: Just goes to show the damage that the SJW (Social Justice Warrior for the uninitiated) can do
Ah. Of course. It has a GIRL as the lead so.. I get it... I get it...

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Post by Bishop149 » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 13:44

Antilogic wrote:
Skism wrote: Just goes to show the damage that the SJW (Social Justice Warrior for the uninitiated) can do
Ah. Of course. It has a GIRL as the lead so.. I get it... I get it...
Most of the arguments I've seen about TLJ have adhered to the following pattern.

A) Points out TLJs flaws
B) Points out that every one of said flaws applies to the original trilogy, to a greater or lesser extent.
- [optional argument about creative licence and "realism" in science fiction*]
A) But Rey!
B) But Luke!
A) But Snoke!
B) Who cares!
A) But Porgs!!
B) But Ewoks!!
A) Throws (usually transparently sexist or racist, sometimes both) hissy fit and rants about SWJs. . . . . Trump may also be mentioned.

*This is a joke, I mean FFS its STAR WARS! The softest of soft sci-fi.
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Post by Skism » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 14:32

Antilogic wrote:
Skism wrote: Just goes to show the damage that the SJW (Social Justice Warrior for the uninitiated) can do
Ah. Of course. It has a GIRL as the lead so.. I get it... I get it...
Oh I see so we have arrived at accusations of sexism.

dear Lord can't you at least be original? :roll:

Perspective ;)
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Post by Bishop149 » Thu, 4. Jan 18, 14:35

Skism wrote: Perspective ;)
What people who post stuff like this fail to see: It's possible to hold both viewpoints without them conflicting.
If they do conflict for you, then take a long hard look at why.
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