FCC votes to repeal net neutrality

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felter
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Post by felter » Sun, 17. Dec 17, 15:36

As far as I'm aware, even though they voted to make these changes they haven't actually came into effect and the decision could be reversed. It turns out that 85% of the American public and 75% of the republican party are against it happening, So we will have to see.

The 85% is quite interesting as I wouldn't have thought 85% used the internet, just shows you how important the internet is.
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mrbadger
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Post by mrbadger » Sun, 17. Dec 17, 16:00

It was a commercially financed decision. But there have been plenty of those in the US that have easily made into law, going back decades, even when the result was actively harmful to the US as a whole but benefited the specific sponsors.

So, we'll have to see. I'm not optimistic. Guess the swamp is quite healthy.

Edit:

85% may not use the internet, but a lot of small businesses rely on it, and there are a lot of those, could they not account for a lot of these extra objectors through action groups?

I know my small business owning friend groups together with other local business owners when she wants to object to something, and sometimes it has an effect.

You mustn't just dismiss those people, even if they aren't Facebook fanatics or heavy net users, an internet geared towards large commercial interests will be just as bad for small business as Shopping Malls
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A5PECT
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Post by A5PECT » Sun, 17. Dec 17, 20:55

mrbadger wrote:...could they not account for a lot of these extra objectors through action groups?
The government has been shrinking collective legal action for consumers for awhile now. The recent developments with the FCC and net neutrality are another page in that long story.
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mrbadger
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Post by mrbadger » Sun, 17. Dec 17, 21:27

Has no-one stopped to think how much this is going to hurt the future development of the nation?

Honestly, It's like they are actively trying to hand their lead in the world over to places like China.

In the UK we have been benefiting greatly from some of the bizarre decisions made in the US in recent decades.

Such as after 911, they made it vastly harder for Chinese people to get education Visas, so they shifted en mass to Europe. Why on earth did they do that? I imagine there must have been some other reason and they used 911 as an excuse to push it through. The decision nearly crippled some Universities in America financially, but they still did it.

Is that still true? I don't know, but the damage is done, our universities are still filled with Chinese students, we collaborate with their universities on research that makes us millions (definitely the case at my uni).

Those students will have children and want those children to study abroad, and where will they send them? To the place they know.

And almost every UK university has people heavily recruiting in China now, plus our government won't be shutting that down for any stupid reasons.

They can't, we want all that money.
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Post by Observe » Sun, 17. Dec 17, 21:41

Antilogic wrote:
Observe wrote:The worst that might happen, is that internet access will become even more expensive and/or restricted and people won't use it as much. That's not necessarily a bad thing! I don't see the world being greatly improved since internet access came along.
Words can not fully express how awful this statement is.
How so? I didn't want to offend.

Whatever we now have, will surely be replaced by something else before long. Perhaps quantum entanglement or something will obsolete the wired/wireless system that we have now; just as cellular communications have largely replaced land-line phones.

We can be confident of only one thing - change. Well, two things: greed and change.

I am in my 70's and reached adulthood before the internet became widely available. I've had a long career in electronic and computer engineering - so I'm not averse to technology. That said, I see little benefit from the internet and frankly, a lot of downsides overall.

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Post by brucewarren » Sun, 17. Dec 17, 21:57

I disagree on two points.

a) Some folks, especially if they live in the hind end of nowhere kind of depend on the intwerwebz for actual stuffs. It's not all youtubes and wimmins with too little clothing. If they lose it it will make life harder for them.

b) I don't a have cell phone. I have a land line. It's an awful lot cheaper in terms of bytes per buck. Since I don't need a machine to tell me which foot to place in front of the other when walking down the street I have no need for a mobile connection in any case so I do my internetting at the PC as nature intended.

I'm not one of those who buys into the idea that technological progress is somehow automatic either. It comes about through sweat, blood and tears. If no one wants to develop a thing, or if said thing isn't actually possible it won't happen. We don't have general purpose AI. We don't all have flying cars and we don't have interstellar space travel. Maybe I'm pessimistic but I don't believe we ever will.

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Observe
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Post by Observe » Sun, 17. Dec 17, 22:05

brucewarren wrote:...a) Some folks, especially if they live in the hind end of nowhere kind of depend on the intwerwebz. If they lose it it will make life a bit harder for them...
I wonder how people got on before the internet? It's great for research, I'll grant that. On the other hand, going down to the public library or traveling to a university town that had a better library was part of the 'journey' of discovery; involving getting out of the house and interacting with 'real' people and situations. Perhaps even meeting 'in the flesh' one's wife-to-be at said library...

Bottom line: Do I like it? Yes. Do I need it? No. Would my life be better off without it? Perhaps.

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Post by mrbadger » Sun, 17. Dec 17, 23:39

From 2000-2003 I did most of my CS degree without internet access in my room.

It was in the labs, but in my room I had books, lots of books, and that was where most of my CS education came from. I spent hundreds of pounds on textbooks each semester. Not just required textbooks, but ones I thought might be useful.

These days I rely extensively on the internet, because the range of topics I need to cover is quite large, and they change too fast to use books. I still have a lot of those books I bought, but I keep them for sentimental reasons only.

Nor to I recommend printed texts to my students any more, apart from as suggested reading. My primary sources are always web based now.

Information is best found where you find it most easy to absorb.
For me that was via books in my room. I could have stayed in the labs and used the net more, or the uni library I suppose (though in all my time under and post grad I never did do that). These days the main source of information has shifted online.

Books are still better in some ways, they are not the first port of call for the vast majority of us when trying to find something out, or learn a new subject.

The world has changed. Books aren't dead, they likely won't ever die, but the world has moved on from them being the main source of information storage.
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Post by Kapakio » Mon, 18. Dec 17, 15:14

Observe wrote:I wonder how people got on before the internet? It's great for research, I'll grant that. On the other hand, going down to the public library or traveling to a university town that had a better library was part of the 'journey' of discovery; involving getting out of the house and interacting with 'real' people and situations. Perhaps even meeting 'in the flesh' one's wife-to-be at said library...

Bottom line: Do I like it? Yes. Do I need it? No. Would my life be better off without it? Perhaps.
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Post by Incubi » Mon, 18. Dec 17, 22:18

net neutrality is just not going to be enforced by the FCC. They expect that competition and customer relations will maintain net neutrality. So this is not an exploding TNT.

It’s more like a virus that will slowly hit us with minor symptoms at first, and then when it is too late to stop it, it will go terminal. Cable companies may have national competition, but not local. The have sectors that they control and they do not overlap each other. So your stuck with whoever provides your zip code. And many of these providers are just Comcast by another name. DSL is the only competition locally.

As of now Comcast claims that they will respect net neutrality, and so long as they do, I think they all will. We will see.

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Post by fiksal » Mon, 18. Dec 17, 22:24

Incubi wrote: As of now Comcast claims that they will respect net neutrality
I dont believe them. They are the company with no credibility.
Spotty/terrible customer support, over-priced and a poor performing service.


Really, there's nothing to believe them on, - this isnt even a lie. They wanted Net Neutrality gone so that they can disregard it legally. And they got it. Everyone knows it.

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mrbadger
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Post by mrbadger » Mon, 18. Dec 17, 22:37

If they were going to respect it then why support having it removed in the first place?
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Post by Observe » Mon, 18. Dec 17, 22:48

mrbadger wrote:If they were going to respect it then why support having it removed in the first place?
That ^^.

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fiksal
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Post by fiksal » Mon, 18. Dec 17, 22:49

mrbadger wrote:If they were going to respect it then why support having it removed in the first place?

Something something government is bad. Something something death star. Something something complete.

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Observe
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Post by Observe » Mon, 18. Dec 17, 23:14

What we are seeing, is big business free enterprise in operation. Correspondingly, we are also seeing growing interest in cities offering 'public broadband' so their citizens can have affordable internet. There is nothing stopping a community from being its own ISP and sharing the costs in the form of taxes.

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