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Different Behavior in V4.30
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RainerPrem



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PostPosted: Mon, 11. Dec 17, 07:33    Post subject: Different Behavior in V4.30 Reply with quote Print

Hi,

on Saturday I got the release version of 4.30, so it's time to collect and discuss the differences to earlier releases.

1) short visibility of info-points and docking icons. An idea gone bad. Some icons appear much too late. Scanning infopoints became tedious, because even if you know where they are, they appear much too late.

2) no automatic jump from local to super highways and vice versa in Autopilot. This was the only advantage of using the autopilot.

3) (subjective) walking in stations and especially crawling in vents has become awkward. I constantly get stuck at corners.

4) (question) Am I wrong or has the mode of reward for killing enemies close to a station changed? I killed a whole Xenon attack group containing several Ms and Ns, a P and a K near PMCs Badlands colony but was not rewarded with an increase in reputation. It seems you have to wait until they attack the station itself to get this reward.

5) OTOH: killing "enemy" mass traffic gives a reputation award.

6) (bug) the game sometimes automatically switches to mouse flight mode when undocking.

cu
Rainer

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ajax34i





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PostPosted: Mon, 11. Dec 17, 08:00    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

1. The Fly-by InfoScan mod gets rid of the info-points stupidity, but the 5km Scan Range mod has been reduced to the max viewing distance of 2km. Otherwise, the docking points are on top of "building" protrusions that are visible from far away, so they can be found relatively easily. The biggest issue is that you can't see mission offers; nobody's going to bother to find missions / do missions that are not in the BB, and finding the spacefly, khaak, and ancients collection missions for upgrades to Skunk weaponry/shields/engines will be a miserable experience.

7. Bug: screenshots of the various cockpit configurations no longer show in the Encyclopedia articles about them. The text description shows, but it's impossible to preview what each cockpit looks like.

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Mon, 11. Dec 17, 09:22    Post subject: Re: Different Behavior in V4.30 Reply with quote Print

RainerPrem wrote:
2) no automatic jump from local to super highways and vice versa in Autopilot. This was the only advantage of using the autopilot.

I think the idea here was to "solve" (try rather "avoid" or "sweep under the rug") a problem with spontaneous teleporting to distant (by which I mean "clear across a sector") locations while travelling in highways, often when nowhere near a junction or anything of the sort, which could cause a bizarre loop wherein a player travels halfway along a highway, gets bounced to another location, only to eventually end up in the same place and the whole thing looping endlessly... (I experienced this in either or both of Ascendancy and Inner World.) I also did like the smoothness of autopiloting via highways. I also wonder whether this also affects fighters and M-sized freighters - perhaps this is the real reason for the change, if it was deemed that the auto-jumping was buffing their survivability too much.

RainerPrem wrote:
3) (subjective) walking in stations and especially crawling in vents has become awkward. I constantly get stuck at corners.

I noticed something like this, too. I was wondering whether I'd somehow forgotten how to first-person-walk (I haven't played for some months, being back on a diet of X2 and the X3s), or whether my character had gained weight, or perhaps the contrary and the baggier clothes were catching on texture edges...

RainerPrem wrote:
5) OTOH: killing "enemy" mass traffic gives a reputation award.

As far as I'm aware, killing those illicit civilians always provided the reputation boost.

RainerPrem wrote:
6) (bug) the game sometimes automatically switches to mouse flight mode when undocking.

This I've experienced since the earliest versions, and found it especially inconvenient when undocking from a Rahanas or Sul, as that almost inevitably results in a bouncy-bouncy stuckness, battling to get clear. At one point I thought that the game was remembering whether I docked while in mouse mode, but I think my findings were inconclusive, ultimately...


On another topic of killing enemies near a station: there's supposed to be a chance of getting a trade agent by killing enemies near a station. Well, a couple of 'kill incoming enemies'-type missions and several red civilian bustings later, nothing; additionally, it seems (though TBH I haven't tested this for long enough - I'm back on X3TC/AP now) that the frequency of red civilians has been reduced considerably. When I saw the new feature announced back in the beta stage, I thought this was excellent, as it could provide an alternative way of getting those agents without having to engage in tedious "small-talk". However, it turns out that trying to do it this way relies heavily on taking station defense missions and then managing to snag some of the kills before the station's guns get it, and is all-round too laborious, especially for a player in the early stages using low-end guns and what-not, which is precisely at the stage of the game where some players (certainly me included) like to get those trade agents in play.


Totally unrelated; for attention EgoSoft: the new so-called "Quick" Menu is anything but... There's too much flash there, by which I mean the opening and closing animations, which slow it down to such an extent that it's faster to just use the normal interface, even when that takes 1 or 2 more keystrokes to reach the same option. I so quickly got so annoyed with this menu, that I didn't even bother to try to learn the options it offers (though from the cursory look I had at them, I wasn't blown away by the chosen selection.) A *quick* menu HAS TO BE... quick! These unfolding flourishes and what-not may look impressive and sci-fiesque upon out-of-context visual demonstration, but EgoSoft, please try to actually USE a new interface feature to see how it feels. This is where, to me, X2, X3TC and X3AP got it right (snappy, crisp, instantly opening menus that allow a player to drill through multiple nested menus per second, if necessary), and X3 Reunion and Rebirth got it horribly wrong (the former by introducing unnecessary additional keystrokes, the latter by slowing down the navigation by "prolonging each keystroke", so to speak.)


EDIT: Suggestion
Regarding the icon viewing distance issue. Yes, I understand and agree that the icon clutter is unsightly. Unfortunately, from a functional standpoint, it's necessary (due to the game's fundamental design - these "features" were built into the game and now there's a dependence on them.) I think rather than trying to trade off between aesthetics and functionality, it might be better to make icon viewing toggleable by hotkey (turn them on/off at will), with a long (perhaps similar to the previous) viewing distance. However, some players would quite likely find the extra keyboard labour annoying, so perhaps a slider in the settings allowing a player to set his/her preferred viewing distance.


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dholmstr





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PostPosted: Mon, 11. Dec 17, 09:52    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I have a problem with walking on station. Or more LACK of it, couse at some point the game really got a glitch and I can't move when docked. Station or ship. Not keybord or joystick or mouse. Even Shift-d don't get me back to the ship, however ESC and enter the menu works.
This is with 4.3 but it worked fine the first few days. Tried different things to "unlock" myself but it persist trough save games also. Did I accidently push a wrong button or did the game make a doodoo?

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RainerPrem



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PostPosted: Mon, 11. Dec 17, 13:13    Post subject: Re: Different Behavior in V4.30 Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:

...

Suggestion

Regarding the icon viewing distance issue. Yes, I understand and agree that the icon clutter is unsightly. Unfortunately, from a functional standpoint, it's necessary (due to the game's fundamental design - these "features" were built into the game and now there's a dependence on them.) I think rather than trying to trade off between aesthetics and functionality, it might be better to make icon viewing toggleable by hotkey (turn them on/off at will), with a long (perhaps similar to the previous) viewing distance. However, some players would quite likely find the extra keyboard labour annoying, so perhaps a slider in the settings allowing a player to set his/her preferred viewing distance.


Hi,

my idea would be to increase the visibility range in the ring of the HUD. But having the alleged whole 2km would be better than what we have now, when a docking icon sometimes appears in the same second it gets white (<1km).

cu
Rainer

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Mon, 11. Dec 17, 13:50    Post subject: Re: Different Behavior in V4.30 Reply with quote Print

RainerPrem wrote:
my idea would be to increase the visibility range in the ring of the HUD.

Mmm, that's quite elegant - I like. Makes me think somewhat of a single-lens reflex camera, where the centre bit is usually used for focusing and rangefinding.


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Senner





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PostPosted: Mon, 11. Dec 17, 16:02    Post subject: Re: Different Behavior in V4.30 Reply with quote Print

RainerPrem wrote:


3) (subjective) walking in stations and especially crawling in vents has become awkward. I constantly get stuck at corners.



Same here

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ajax34i





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Dec 17, 06:04    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Me too, get stuck on a slight protrusion on the floor usually. There's no "collision avoidance" like with the ship, if I can put it that way, where you just slide around the obstruction. A one inch block of elevated floor will stop you in your tracks.

EDIT: Another bug: I have quick load mapped to F9, and when I press it the game goes to the loading screen, and also into the Graphics Settings menu. ESC or keyboard shortcuts don't work with the Graphics Settings menu, but using the mouse I can click my way out of it. Managed to do that before the loading bar completed.

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MrFiction



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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Dec 17, 11:32    Post subject: Re: Different Behavior in V4.30 Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:
Totally unrelated; for attention EgoSoft: the new so-called "Quick" Menu is anything but... There's too much flash there, by which I mean the opening and closing animations, which slow it down to such an extent that it's faster to just use the normal interface, even when that takes 1 or 2 more keystrokes to reach the same option. I so quickly got so annoyed with this menu, that I didn't even bother to try to learn the options it offers (though from the cursory look I had at them, I wasn't blown away by the chosen selection.) A *quick* menu HAS TO BE... quick! These unfolding flourishes and what-not may look impressive and sci-fiesque upon out-of-context visual demonstration, but EgoSoft, please try to actually USE a new interface feature to see how it feels. This is where, to me, X2, X3TC and X3AP got it right (snappy, crisp, instantly opening menus that allow a player to drill through multiple nested menus per second, if necessary), and X3 Reunion and Rebirth got it horribly wrong (the former by introducing unnecessary additional keystrokes, the latter by slowing down the navigation by "prolonging each keystroke", so to speak.)

The new quick menu seems to be mostly for controller users. It's a really great addition for me and a great timesaver because I play with a controller. To see my missions I had to open the sidebar, press down three times. I have to look if I'm selecting the third option because the controls sometimes don't register if you press buttons too fast. Then press right, possibly up or down and another press to select the item.

Now I can hold a single button and select various often used options, even context dependent, like the "Return to shop" option which only appears when in stations.

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Dec 17, 19:28    Post subject: Re: Different Behavior in V4.30 Reply with quote Print

MrFiction wrote:

The new quick menu seems to be mostly for controller users.

Yeah, I figured as much Smile But answer me this: surely it would save you even more time if the "wheel" popped up more instantaneously, rather than animating out? In other words, wouldn't it be even more helpful? (I don't use a controller, so I haven't experienced it that way, but I reckon I'd be getting impatient regardless of my input device...)


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Berhg





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Dec 17, 20:39    Post subject: Re: Different Behavior in V4.30 Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:


Totally unrelated; for attention EgoSoft: the new so-called "Quick" Menu is anything but... There's too much flash there, by which I mean the opening and closing animations, which slow it down to such an extent that it's faster to just use the normal interface, even when that takes 1 or 2 more keystrokes to reach the same option. I so quickly got so annoyed with this menu, that I didn't even bother to try to learn the options it offers (though from the cursory look I had at them, I wasn't blown away by the chosen selection.) A *quick* menu HAS TO BE... quick! These unfolding flourishes and what-not may look impressive and sci-fiesque upon out-of-context visual demonstration, but EgoSoft, please try to actually USE a new interface feature to see how it feels.


Dude, I thought the annoying garble-graphic delay was LAG! That was intentionally done???? O.o

And I'm a controller use with XRebirth. (old man hands) I find the "quick menu" annoying to use and find myself going through the normal menu using the controller hot key like before.


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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Dec 17, 20:55    Post subject: Re: Different Behavior in V4.30 Reply with quote Print

Berhg wrote:

Dude, I thought the annoying garble-graphic delay was LAG!

Well, the problem is that over-elaborated animations make the interface more susceptible to lag - if the machine running it is on the slow side, then instead of lagging just the once to render the interface, it lags rendering every intermediate frame of the animation, making the problem worse. However, even on a full-spec machine, the animation introduces an overall delay, as the frames are rendered sequentially, no matter how quickly. If they are rendered fast enough to not have a duration, then the intermediate frames are pointlessly redundant in any case - either way, the animation, while possibly looking nice when looked at by an outside observer, are bound to frustrate anyones who expects responsiveness from their interface - much like having fancy slide or fade effects when transitioning from screen to screen on, say, a mobile phone - may look funky, but after the first couple of times it just becomes an annoying impediment.

So, in short, if you suspect your system is indeed lagging, then those animations only make it even worse and more annoying for you... :/

At the end of the day, I find this new interface element useless, but luckily it is totally optional - so I don't use it, and thus am not affected. However, isn't developing a feature to not be used, the very definition of wasted development resources? EgoSoft please note: I may be coming across very critical here, but I don't mean it in a nasty way - it is intended to be constructive advice. (I DO understand the desire to make something that looks nice - but I strongly believe that usability needs to take priority.)


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Berhg





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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Dec 17, 21:09    Post subject: Re: Different Behavior in V4.30 Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:


EDIT: Suggestion
Regarding the icon viewing distance issue. Yes, I understand and agree that the icon clutter is unsightly. Unfortunately, from a functional standpoint, it's necessary (due to the game's fundamental design - these "features" were built into the game and now there's a dependence on them.) I think rather than trying to trade off between aesthetics and functionality, it might be better to make icon viewing toggleable by hotkey (turn them on/off at will), with a long (perhaps similar to the previous) viewing distance. However, some players would quite likely find the extra keyboard labour annoying, so perhaps a slider in the settings allowing a player to set his/her preferred viewing distance.


I second this suggestion, and particularly the part about having a view distance setting slider in the option Smile

And Raven, maybe my i7 960 is getting to old to handle the new quick menu graphics. That thing has been a reliable workhorse for years and is venerable by now. XD


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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Dec 17, 21:22    Post subject: Re: Different Behavior in V4.30 Reply with quote Print

Berhg wrote:
And Raven, maybe my i7 960 is getting to old to handle the new quick menu graphics. That thing has been a reliable workhorse for years and is venerable by now. XD

Ah, those things are like old V8 muscle-car engines! They may be a bit long in the tooth and not "the latest tech", but they still deliver very good horsepower... Very Happy I am still running an i7 920 (on a high-end motherboard), and that CPU is almost fast asleep while I play even modern games (I just have to keep updating my graphics card from time to time, of course.)


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MrFiction



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PostPosted: Tue, 12. Dec 17, 22:36    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I agree, an instantly showing quick menu would be better. Still, it has already saved me a lot time in its current state.

Related to the new version, the encyclopedia images and descriptions are gone when looking at new cockpits.



edit: ajax34i also reported this issue



Last edited by MrFiction on Tue, 12. Dec 17, 22:50; edited 1 time in total
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