Lino, how about some X4 graphic specials?

Artean · Post by **Artean** » Fri, 8. Dec 17, 17:46

Would be very interesting to see some examples of how the graphic engine has developed since XR. Care to share?

Post by **linolafett** » Fri, 8. Dec 17, 18:33

I got summoned?

Lets try. As i dont have any images here, i can not show differences in this topic, but can describe what is being affected. You can watch the streams to see the visual effects in motion.
The next stream is next week!

Disclaimer again:
I am just an artist, and this is trying to describe stuff i do not completely understand. I might be wrong, so feel free to share your expertise on these things

Big changes from xr to x4:
-change to a "pbr" physicially based rendering
-change to a deferred renderer
-change to vulkan

The first point makes it much easier for us artists to "describe" how a material should look like. With the old non pbr workflow it was possible to create convincing materials, but now its just much simpler and quicker especially as there are new tools popping to make our work quicker.
Result: Better materials.

The second point is more technical now. In short it creates per frame so called "renderlayers" containing information of the scene like lights, diffuse colours or directions of surfaces in relation to the camera.
Doing this enables much quicker post process and lighting work, as you do the processing on the renderlayers, which are simple 2d images, instead of complex 3d geometry.
Result: We can have nice things like many lights for very cheap render times. Lovely

The last bit is the most technical, so i might be very wrong here.
Vulcan is the graphics api to tell the gpu what to do. Like DirectX or OpenGL. The difference is with vulcan, that we have a direct line of talking to the gpu now, instead of having the direcx/opengl middle man.
This makes optimizations much more shaped for our needs. It also makes the talking much more complicated for us, as we can not rely on the middleman to do the work for us.
Result: More things to optimize, more things to have to take care of. Should result in better performance when having to draw many things on screen.

w.evans · Post by **w.evans** » Fri, 8. Dec 17, 20:08

Screenshots or it didn't happen!

Rice · Post by **Rice** » Fri, 8. Dec 17, 21:40

time to blast your mind with vulcan i hope there will be no serve after effects, after this reveal

, dunno what to expect at the 13th. but maybe we get to see a PBR degradion of a ship in its whole. thanks TO if that will be shown :>

Kevin2202 · Post by **Kevin2202** » Sat, 9. Dec 17, 05:04

Not trying to dump on the game but... may I give some critique?

From the demo I watched, the game looks a bit too cartoonish compared to X3. I think it's the color schemes on stations and ships. Too much green and orange, and it would be good to do less on those giant floating number fonts displaying landing pads. At least make them disappear once landed and only visible to a ship that's landing in that zone. And the green aurora-like effects on the highways or warp gates reminds me too much of really bad MMORPG games or even EVE. I wouldn't mind seeing those effects when I'm actually INSIDE the highway, instead of seeing it glow from outside when I'm flying around.

Also, the green highlight on pilot's chair really needs to GO. At least have it be an outline. It looks super glitchy in terms of visuals.

Other than that I think the graphics look great and I think the visuals (like the effects on the ballistics) could keep me playing the game.

And please, add more console panels inside the ship cockpits that displays radar/map and other infos, like you guys did with X Rebirth. I thought that was really cool and immersive.

Post by **BurnIt!** » Sat, 9. Dec 17, 11:41

Colour schemes are always a controversial topic, it's a difficult balance to strike. Tastes are different and where one person likes a look borderlining on greyscale another wants something more bright and lively.

And while our artists go to great lengths to achieve this balance it can never be perfect for everybody. However with X4 we have a new graphics option called "Colour Correction" that allows you to select the type you prefer, you can go for the desaturated look as well as something more colourful.
This was already showcased in a previous stream.

iforgotmysocks · Post by **iforgotmysocks** » Sat, 9. Dec 17, 12:49

Ya, color correction is brilliant.

Post by **Alan Phipps** » Sat, 9. Dec 17, 15:38

An in-game colour correction facility sounds excellent as I have found playing with adjusted display monitor settings slightly inconvenient with all the different in-game environments, and the in-game gamma setting doesn't really help much with global improvement either.

(BTW: In the UK at least, colour correction means changing 'color' to 'colour'.

)

Post by **X2-Illuminatus** » Sat, 9. Dec 17, 16:32

BurnIt! wrote:This was already showcased in a previous stream.

The relevant part in the second livestream can be seen at around 44:44.

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Sun, 10. Dec 17, 10:51

What? New Egosoft stream next week? <goes to main page to see details, book the callendar>

Artean · Post by **Artean** » Sun, 10. Dec 17, 11:18

Thanks Lino for taking your time to reply, appreciated!

A couple of screenshots as a next step?

thesus1 · Post by **thesus1** » Sun, 10. Dec 17, 13:23

Artean wrote:A couple of screenshots as a next step?

You can find some screenshot here. But keep in mind this is not the final version of the game.

Killjaeden · Post by **Killjaeden** » Mon, 11. Dec 17, 19:05

BurnIt! wrote:And while our artists go to great lengths to achieve this balance it can never be perfect for everybody. However with X4 we have a new graphics option called "Colour Correction" that allows you to select the type you prefer, you can go for the desaturated look as well as something more colourful.
This was already showcased in a previous stream.

Is selective color correction planned? Can we tweak ships/ manmade objects individually from space objects and particle effects? It would definitely be something unique in the option-menu that not many games have yet.

Otherwise, if someone doesnt like that there possibly could be too many bright colors - offering the option to remove all the colors on the entire screen is not quite what they where looking for. If someone likes bright and vivid, that does not mean he also likes having single objects feature every color of the rainbow (hyperbolically speaking). Color correction is not a way to correct visual design. A ship that has all colors of the rainbow represented on it just doesnt look as good (generally) as a ship with a nicely selected and limited color palette. I for example love neon retro art style/ world designs. It's has bright and vivid elements- but has very distinct and finely selected color palette. It just wouldnt work when everything glows in 5 different base colors. And it would also not work if every single object glows in a different color. It would also lose it's impact if objects of no particular importance are glowing just as much as the most important objects.

For upcoming streams, i would enjoy hearing Alexander Preuss (and/or other people who might have been involved with that) talk about Art design for X and how it changed over the years/ what went into it/ how it is now. Every new X game seems to be a significant disconnect in art style and i'd like to hear ES's perspective on the reasons/ motivations.

Result: We can have nice things like many lights for very cheap render times. Lovely

Many fully dynamic lights or a mix of static and dynamic? Will ship engines have their own light source then?

Skeeter · Post by **Skeeter** » Mon, 11. Dec 17, 22:18

I hope the colour correction is just applied to ships and stations as I'd like backdrops and planets and weapon effects to be normal and unfiltered. Mainly to get ships and stations more battleship grey colored really.

Post by **Nanook** » Tue, 12. Dec 17, 01:31

Skeeter wrote:...Mainly to get ships and stations more battleship grey colored really.

While battleship gray is an appropriate camoflage color for ocean-going ships, black is a much better color for combat spaceships.

Skeeter · Post by **Skeeter** » Tue, 12. Dec 17, 10:22

If star trek and starwars does grey well then so can stuff in x4. Lol.

Killjaeden · Post by **Killjaeden** » Tue, 12. Dec 17, 15:07

Nanook wrote:
Skeeter wrote:...Mainly to get ships and stations more battleship grey colored really.
While battleship gray is an appropriate camoflage color for ocean-going ships, black is a much better color for combat spaceships.

As if spaceships have to solely rely on visual detection by humans. And for anything the requires speed, acceleration and maneuverability no color is the best color. For RL airplane speed records they strip the paint...
Imagine the weight of paint that would have to be spent in order to color a star destroyer - let alone the man hours.

Post by **Nanook** » Tue, 12. Dec 17, 21:30

Killjaeden wrote:
Nanook wrote:
Skeeter wrote:...Mainly to get ships and stations more battleship grey colored really.
While battleship gray is an appropriate camoflage color for ocean-going ships, black is a much better color for combat spaceships.
As if spaceships have to solely rely on visual detection by humans...

Stealth planes are painted black, too, you know. That's the color of the radar absorbing material. So, a radar-absorbing paint on a spaceship, coupled with a proper energy management system (going dark) would leave just visual detection as the only way to detect a spaceship. If that spaceship is then painted black, it would be next to impossible to detect. And who says the visual inspection has to be done by humans?

And for anything the requires speed, acceleration and maneuverability no color is the best color. For RL airplane speed records they strip the paint.

Imagine the weight of paint that would have to be spent in order to color a star destroyer - let alone the man hours.

Really, you're worrying about the weight of a thin layer of paint on ships that probably have meters-thick armor? Besides, this discussion was about gray vs black. I doubt gray paint would weigh any more than black paint.

Killjaeden · Post by **Killjaeden** » Tue, 12. Dec 17, 23:32

Nanook wrote:Stealth planes are painted black, too, you know. That's the color of the radar absorbing material. So, a radar-absorbing paint on a spaceship, coupled with a proper energy management system (going dark) would leave just visual detection as the only way to detect a spaceship. If that spaceship is then painted black, it would be next to impossible to detect.

Next to impossible to detect for a 1990 iraqi AA gunner at night maybe. Cold war era stealth planes where black.
As soon as something uses something more "sophisticated" (IR sensor) or something scifi (gravimeter), a combination of everything, or plain simply just another radar frequency which isn't affected as much by the absorber material and the stealth planes shape, the choice of "camoflage color" matters little.

Skeeter · Post by **Skeeter** » Tue, 12. Dec 17, 23:35

You say not to worry about thin paint but imagine how many gallons of the stuff you need to coat it and the cost of it and the cost and man hours to apply it. So theres very good reasons for ships not to be painted and if ur on about stealth planes, ud think future spaceships would need paint to hide when a technology like a cloaking device would be probably used or a sensor scrambler etc. Painting spaceships tbh is unrealistic, the only reason games/film do it is for visual impact thinking the public wants flashy coloured ships etc when in reality they would never be painted as its totally useless and a waste.

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Lino, how about some X4 graphic specials?

Lino, how about some X4 graphic specials?