Both of the books are examples of the technically illegal practice of using cover art intended for one book on other books, which was occasionally done by some imprints licenced to do some or all of the paperback runs of novels.
In both the examples I gave the Imprint (publisher) was Manor Books, and they got into a lot of trouble for the Philip K. Dick Book, which became quite famous, and was thus really quite hard to get a copy of, cost me a fair bit.
The other book was written by an author of only minor success Donald John Pfeil. No-one even mentions his work when talking about mis-use of this particular cover art, making me suspect only few were ever printed using it.
But What Cover Art is it?
[ external image ]
Little surprised no-one got it really. Is that not obviously a Spice Harvester and a scout ship? I get that the Fremen wouldn't be recognized, Lynch didn't represent Stillsuits the way they were in the book, skintight coverings under traditional Arabic style clothing, and neither did the ScyFy Adaption.
Although I'm thinking that from the perspective of someone who is willing to spend hundreds to get my hands on obscure covers of books, so I'm possibly not a reliable witness....
Book Thread
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Er, why is that illegal, technically or otherwise? Surely, as long as the publisher has paid the proper royalties to the artist for the use of their work, they could put it on as many darned book covers as they choose?mrbadger wrote:Both of the books are examples of the technically illegal practice of using cover art intended for one book on other books
Because the imprint publisher hadn't paid for it, they were given it by the people who had, the main publishers, who were getting them to do the paperback version.
Manor Books had to pay a fine I believe. Maybe illegal is the wrong word, perhaps more breach of contract? They didn't have the right to use the artwork for any other books.
They weren't the only Imprint who did it, or the only one who got into trouble, but it tended to result in contracts being lost, so it wasn't too common.
Manor Books had to pay a fine I believe. Maybe illegal is the wrong word, perhaps more breach of contract? They didn't have the right to use the artwork for any other books.
They weren't the only Imprint who did it, or the only one who got into trouble, but it tended to result in contracts being lost, so it wasn't too common.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
OOoooooooh, nice one!mrbadger wrote:Both of the books are examples of the technically illegal practice of using cover art intended for one book on other books, which was occasionally done by some imprints licenced to do some or all of the paperback runs of novels.
I think it's darn cool!...Although I'm thinking that from the perspective of someone who is willing to spend hundreds to get my hands on obscure covers of books, so I'm possibly not a reliable witness....
So, no worries, you're a good witness. Often, hobbyists and enthusiasts know more about esoteric bits of a subject than the professionals!I'm ashamed I didn't recognize the cover art, though I did think it looked familiar in some ways.
I honestly don't remember what edition I first read. I did buy one of the new hardback special editions for a friend of mine's son as a Christmas present, last year. (Last year was "Book Christmas" for my friends and their families - Everyone got cool books!)
"Commissioned" artwork for a book cover would, indeed, be "illegal" to use for other purposes without authorization from the owner. In fact, anyone who doesn't own the rights to the artwork can't use it at all for anything other than individual, personal, use. Images, photos and reproductions could also be restricted use/illegal, no matter their origin if they weren't authorized by the license holder. ie: Taking photos in the Louvre or in art or regular museums is prohibited for a reason.
I applaud your enthusiasm and don't see the cost as anything other than a reasonable cost for someone with such interests.
PS: "Illegal" and "Criminal" are slightly different, usually, terms with certain implications, namely "State/Government/Criminal" law vs "Civil/Contractual/Copyright/Trademark" law. In the end, either usually represents bad news for violators.
I'm not sure what to make of the Folio Society. Aside from a first addition of Hitch-Hikers, I don't own any Hardbacks, and that isn't the Folio one.
But I recently learned that the Folio Society have a release of Dune that is evidently pretty good, lots of nice illustrations, a natty cover (not to my tastes, but at least the cover isn’t a picture from the Lynch movie), and a price tag of £75, which isn't bad.
I've paid far more than that for beaten up old paperbacks.
But if I start down the Folio route I feel I'd be starting over, and they don't seem to have many obscure SF books in their catalogue. Mostly just the *big* names. Bit dull. Some of them I don't even like, and the ones I do I already have, obviously.
Plus I rather like my ratty old books that were, for the most part never meant to last more than a few years post printing 40-50+ years ago.
My local bookshop owner has been a close friend for the last 15 ish years, and we have the same argument every time.
This being one where she hates ordering books for me that to her refined librarianesque eyes look like garbage, but to my ’specialist collector’ eyes, represent a dwindling number of books from a given era of SF publishing, be it the writing, the cover art, the Imprint that handled the paperback release or some other weird reason that justifies my spending a usually insanely high shipping price.
Or she might be right, and I’m just a crazy person
Thing is once these books are gone, they’re gone. There’s no nipping down to Waterstones and picking up new copies.
But I recently learned that the Folio Society have a release of Dune that is evidently pretty good, lots of nice illustrations, a natty cover (not to my tastes, but at least the cover isn’t a picture from the Lynch movie), and a price tag of £75, which isn't bad.
I've paid far more than that for beaten up old paperbacks.
But if I start down the Folio route I feel I'd be starting over, and they don't seem to have many obscure SF books in their catalogue. Mostly just the *big* names. Bit dull. Some of them I don't even like, and the ones I do I already have, obviously.
Plus I rather like my ratty old books that were, for the most part never meant to last more than a few years post printing 40-50+ years ago.
My local bookshop owner has been a close friend for the last 15 ish years, and we have the same argument every time.
This being one where she hates ordering books for me that to her refined librarianesque eyes look like garbage, but to my ’specialist collector’ eyes, represent a dwindling number of books from a given era of SF publishing, be it the writing, the cover art, the Imprint that handled the paperback release or some other weird reason that justifies my spending a usually insanely high shipping price.
Or she might be right, and I’m just a crazy person
Thing is once these books are gone, they’re gone. There’s no nipping down to Waterstones and picking up new copies.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
The dreaded second post, sorry, but I had a new thing about books, and n-one else had, so I needed to.
In Heinlein's childrens book 'Farmer in the Sky' there is what seems to me a pretty good description of how one might turn dead regolith on Ganymede (written long before we had any decent information on the real structure of Ganymede) into usable live soil. I was wondering how realistic it is, because it seems somewhat similar to the method employed in the recent movie 'The Martian'. Possibly in the book it was adapted from too, I just got that. Similar that is, except for the material used to introduce the 'live' elements. But I'm working my way through the Dune series again, so I'll be a while yet.
philip_hughes is probably the one to answer this, but only if he'd actually read the book.
In Heinlein's childrens book 'Farmer in the Sky' there is what seems to me a pretty good description of how one might turn dead regolith on Ganymede (written long before we had any decent information on the real structure of Ganymede) into usable live soil. I was wondering how realistic it is, because it seems somewhat similar to the method employed in the recent movie 'The Martian'. Possibly in the book it was adapted from too, I just got that. Similar that is, except for the material used to introduce the 'live' elements. But I'm working my way through the Dune series again, so I'll be a while yet.
philip_hughes is probably the one to answer this, but only if he'd actually read the book.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
I can't remember the method, read it long ago. But, I would assume that most of the desirable properties there would be physical, with a few bits thrown in depending upon composition of the material.
After all, hydroponics/aeroponics might be more efficient, but may also take a bit more to scale up properly.
PH is definitely the guy to answer that. Oh, "PH!"
Whatever... I lol'd.
After all, hydroponics/aeroponics might be more efficient, but may also take a bit more to scale up properly.
PH is definitely the guy to answer that. Oh, "PH!"
Whatever... I lol'd.
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Paranoid66
- Posts: 4643
- Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
Anything by Neal Asher imo is worth a look if you are into space opera with a fairly hard edge. I love his War Drones in particular, but a big fan of his Spatterjay stuff too, it is just such an interesting ecology easily equal to Dune only in this instance marine rather than desert. Old Captains instead of Fremen.
I'm a fan of his "Transformation" series, starting with "Dark Intelligence." To me, it's a refreshing bit of good science-fiction. The setting is rich enough and the mysteries big enough to keep the reader reading through all three books and perhaps more, if we get lucky. I'll also add the title of the first book is perfect.Paranoid66 wrote:Anything by Neal Asher imo is worth a look if you are into space opera with a fairly hard edge. I love his War Drones in particular, but a big fan of his Spatterjay stuff too, it is just such an interesting ecology easily equal to Dune only in this instance marine rather than desert. Old Captains instead of Fremen.
Further to my previous comment, I was wrong, book one of the Owner Trilogy is £1.99 on Audible because it's a daily deal, and that deal probably ends later today, so it's a good thing you suggested it when you did.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
Ok, I thought long and hard about how to introduce this "book" to you and really do it justice.
So before telling you which "book" it is I will tell you what I like about it:
It is a story that constantly has me on the edge. Stopping to read becomes harder and harder the further you get into it and I have had some nights were I sat down at 11pm and stopped reading at around 4 in the morning. The reason why it is so entertaining is because you never know what happens next. It isn't a happy story and every character in it could face problems at any given moment. Over all I would say the one emotion that really sums up the reading expierence is Angst (if you excuse this germanism).
The story I am talking about is called Worm and I mentioned it already at some point. If I describe to you what it is all about, you will be surpsied because it at first doesn't really fit the description I gave above.
It is the story of a 15 year old teenage girl who lives in a world filled with superpowers, superheroes and villains. That does sound dull, I know, BUT there is a reason why this story has the enormous fan base it has. First of all it does not follow the typical structures you would associate with superheros. Characters are very nuanced and get a lot of development, the powers are unique enough to keep the entire superhero idea fresh (the main character for example has the power to control insects, spiders and some similar animals) and the fallout of those powers is a lot more realistic than in the classical superhero stuff.
To try to further explain the appeal of it I will use theme song some fan made for the main character, which I think fits very well. The reason I am using this song is simple: Listen to it and than remember that it is a song about a 15 year old high shool student. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzhX5N0pWQM
You may expect a bubbly happy song, but this really isn't it. There is a reason this has elements of marching music and there is a reason why it isn't a happy song.
The point I am trying to get across here is: Despite what the topic may imply, this is not a series for children, not even for younger teenagers.
Or to say it with the words of the author:
Two last things to say: the story is long....very long (1.6 million words, that is roughly the length of all Harry Potter Books combined) and it is a web serial you can read for free already (even though I heard it will be published at some point, the deal is apparently already locked down). If anyone is even slightly interested I recommend you read the first chapter or two and see if you like it. Here is the link: https://parahumans.wordpress.com/catego ... tion/1-01/
So before telling you which "book" it is I will tell you what I like about it:
It is a story that constantly has me on the edge. Stopping to read becomes harder and harder the further you get into it and I have had some nights were I sat down at 11pm and stopped reading at around 4 in the morning. The reason why it is so entertaining is because you never know what happens next. It isn't a happy story and every character in it could face problems at any given moment. Over all I would say the one emotion that really sums up the reading expierence is Angst (if you excuse this germanism).
The story I am talking about is called Worm and I mentioned it already at some point. If I describe to you what it is all about, you will be surpsied because it at first doesn't really fit the description I gave above.
It is the story of a 15 year old teenage girl who lives in a world filled with superpowers, superheroes and villains. That does sound dull, I know, BUT there is a reason why this story has the enormous fan base it has. First of all it does not follow the typical structures you would associate with superheros. Characters are very nuanced and get a lot of development, the powers are unique enough to keep the entire superhero idea fresh (the main character for example has the power to control insects, spiders and some similar animals) and the fallout of those powers is a lot more realistic than in the classical superhero stuff.
To try to further explain the appeal of it I will use theme song some fan made for the main character, which I think fits very well. The reason I am using this song is simple: Listen to it and than remember that it is a song about a 15 year old high shool student. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzhX5N0pWQM
You may expect a bubbly happy song, but this really isn't it. There is a reason this has elements of marching music and there is a reason why it isn't a happy song.
The point I am trying to get across here is: Despite what the topic may imply, this is not a series for children, not even for younger teenagers.
Or to say it with the words of the author:
John C. McCrae wrote:Readers should be cautioned that Worm is fairly dark as fiction goes, and it gets far darker as the story progresses. Morality isn’t black and white, Taylor and her acquaintances aren’t invincible, the heroes aren’t winning the war between right and wrong, and superpowers haven’t necessarily affected society for the better. Just the opposite on every count, really. Even on a more fundamental level, Taylor’s day to day life is unhappy, with her clinging to the end of her rope from the story’s outset. The denizens of the Wormverse (as readers have termed it) don’t pull punches, and I try to avoid doing so myself, as a writer. There’s graphic language, descriptions of violence and sex does happen (albeit offscreen). It would be easier to note the trigger warnings that don’t apply than all the ones that do.
Two last things to say: the story is long....very long (1.6 million words, that is roughly the length of all Harry Potter Books combined) and it is a web serial you can read for free already (even though I heard it will be published at some point, the deal is apparently already locked down). If anyone is even slightly interested I recommend you read the first chapter or two and see if you like it. Here is the link: https://parahumans.wordpress.com/catego ... tion/1-01/
"The problem with gender is that it prescribes how we should be rather than recognizing how we are. Imagine how much happier we would be, how much freer to be our true individual selves, if we didn't have the weight of gender expectations." - Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
If there are any Revelation Space fans here, Reynolds has produced a new books to follow on from The Prefect (now renamed Aurora Rising because it is the start of it own series now, rather than a standalone book). The new book is called Elysium Fire, and it's great. I don't want to talk about it for fear of spoilers, other than to say that I'm loving it.
It's set two years after the events of the Prefect, and is apparently one of several books in a series to come based around the Glitter Band police force Panoply and primarily Inspector Dreyfus.
I was skeptical that it could work, prequels when you know the future are hard to enjoy. but somehow he still does it, and does it masterfully.
Besides, I didn't realise that The Prefect was set a full century prior to the rest of the books in the Revelation Space series. There is a lot of scope there for stories.
It's set two years after the events of the Prefect, and is apparently one of several books in a series to come based around the Glitter Band police force Panoply and primarily Inspector Dreyfus.
I was skeptical that it could work, prequels when you know the future are hard to enjoy. but somehow he still does it, and does it masterfully.
Besides, I didn't realise that The Prefect was set a full century prior to the rest of the books in the Revelation Space series. There is a lot of scope there for stories.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
![[ external image ]](http://politespider.com/images/dune.jpg){kind=link}
Mork: Like your Avatar. Met Bakshi back in day.
I read the Honor Harrington series by David Weber.
I'm retired USAF, have contributed through fan/technical group BuNine.
I write Sci Fi myself under a pen name, have had stories published.
Wrote column, articles for Polyhedron the magazine for the RPGA back in the mid-late 80's when writer Gene Rabi was editor. Did cartoons for them also. So my creds go into fantasy as well.
Which is why I follow Weber's fantasy series(s) as well.
Ps... Have First Edition Dune hardcover (the first release abridged in red hardcover, rarest.) Looking for dustcover. Don't have to say we'll dicker.
Also have rare edition Children Of Dune in "British English" (Checked both English versions. Sentence structure different. Much less comma usage.) Liked "Brit" better. Sorry company quit practice because of poor sales in UK.
I read the Honor Harrington series by David Weber.
I'm retired USAF, have contributed through fan/technical group BuNine.
I write Sci Fi myself under a pen name, have had stories published.
Wrote column, articles for Polyhedron the magazine for the RPGA back in the mid-late 80's when writer Gene Rabi was editor. Did cartoons for them also. So my creds go into fantasy as well.
Which is why I follow Weber's fantasy series(s) as well.
Ps... Have First Edition Dune hardcover (the first release abridged in red hardcover, rarest.) Looking for dustcover. Don't have to say we'll dicker.
Also have rare edition Children Of Dune in "British English" (Checked both English versions. Sentence structure different. Much less comma usage.) Liked "Brit" better. Sorry company quit practice because of poor sales in UK.
The answer to life, the universe and everything:
MIND THE GAP
MIND THE GAP
Bakshi is an often overlooked genius.
Loved Polyhedron and all the other pubs like Dragon, White Dwarf, Dungeon, etc.. They were great mags. (IIRC, the entire library of Dragon is now online.)
On Honorverse - I love the original-ish series. But, then it became a somewhat overloaded franchise. I understand it, but I just couldn't read it anymore. As I read through it, it started to seem a bit formulaic. There could have been some interesting stories later in the series and I just didn't get that far. (The same goes for Safehold, at least for me.) Strangely enough, one of my favorite Weber stories is "Out of the Dark." A very nice change of pace and simply "a good story, well told."
I loved Dune. Then I read the next book... then the next... then something finally snapped and I couldn't turn any more pages. Great worldbuilding/universebuilding and some really wonderful ideas, but I started to feel like someone was trying to force things into my head using a very large fuzzy sledgehammer. Muadib, probably...
PS - Most favoritist RPG artwork ever = The "Margin Doodles" in the AD&D Second Edition Dungeon Master's Guide. (And other pubs in that series)
Loved Polyhedron and all the other pubs like Dragon, White Dwarf, Dungeon, etc.. They were great mags. (IIRC, the entire library of Dragon is now online.)
On Honorverse - I love the original-ish series. But, then it became a somewhat overloaded franchise. I understand it, but I just couldn't read it anymore. As I read through it, it started to seem a bit formulaic. There could have been some interesting stories later in the series and I just didn't get that far. (The same goes for Safehold, at least for me.) Strangely enough, one of my favorite Weber stories is "Out of the Dark." A very nice change of pace and simply "a good story, well told."
I loved Dune. Then I read the next book... then the next... then something finally snapped and I couldn't turn any more pages. Great worldbuilding/universebuilding and some really wonderful ideas, but I started to feel like someone was trying to force things into my head using a very large fuzzy sledgehammer. Muadib, probably...
PS - Most favoritist RPG artwork ever = The "Margin Doodles" in the AD&D Second Edition Dungeon Master's Guide.
(And other pubs in that series)Ralph was the craziest and funniest dude I think I ever met. He also drove everybody who worked for him ragged trying to keep up with him. I grew up with Jack S. Who did "rotoscopy" for him. I was visiting the scared sanctum of a trashed out former warehouse in Ventura they'd moved into and I'm giving away my age, they were in collaboration with a major studio for, American Pop. "Realism! I want more @$!#Realism!" he screamed from his office up on a overhand 6 flights up a rickety open metal scaffold stair.
We trod up to introduce me. "Go way' I'm busy."
Weber is deep into another "Oath of Swords" somewhat disgusted HH fans panned his last "Honorverse" book in the "Shadows" series. Derick Chan, Jack of all Trades of BuNine and Admin of Weber's Fan Site and I have a back and forth since I'm not adverse to trekking local University to find answers for tech questions.
In Polyhedron (Oct or Nov late 80's I forget.) I wrote (as satire) the Character Class, "The Bureaucrat". SSI paid me a royalty when such an NPC character became the quest giver in "Curse of the Azure Bonds". In 1986 I was Assistant Regional Coordinator for the Military for the RPGA. In (86-88?) for a year I cartooned for Polyhedron as -Jeff- and wrote modules. Hence begin my game modding experience.
Yes I met Gygax. D&D creator. Briefly. Interesting, I don't think he bathed.
We trod up to introduce me. "Go way' I'm busy."
Weber is deep into another "Oath of Swords" somewhat disgusted HH fans panned his last "Honorverse" book in the "Shadows" series. Derick Chan, Jack of all Trades of BuNine and Admin of Weber's Fan Site and I have a back and forth since I'm not adverse to trekking local University to find answers for tech questions.
In Polyhedron (Oct or Nov late 80's I forget.) I wrote (as satire) the Character Class, "The Bureaucrat". SSI paid me a royalty when such an NPC character became the quest giver in "Curse of the Azure Bonds". In 1986 I was Assistant Regional Coordinator for the Military for the RPGA. In (86-88?) for a year I cartooned for Polyhedron as -Jeff- and wrote modules. Hence begin my game modding experience.
Yes I met Gygax. D&D creator. Briefly. Interesting, I don't think he bathed.
The answer to life, the universe and everything:
MIND THE GAP
MIND THE GAP
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Golden_Gonads
- Posts: 2628
- Joined: Fri, 13. Feb 04, 20:21
My problem with Weber is he overlaps the same time period in his last 5 books or so, making it a convoluted mess. It just wasn't necessary to cram so much together like that. Hell, the last Shadows book only furthered the plot in the last... What? Two chapters? The rest was background fluff. The detail would have been fine if the last two books were linearly integrated and released as two books, but to have them as they were was just pointless. Well, so far anyway. I assume the next book will provide the reason why he did that... I hope.
Another problem is that Harrington started as a commoner, now suddenly she's a close relative to the Beowulf Head of State, that and half her ancestors are all suddenly majorly important folk.... People would have noticed such things. To have nobody do so is... Stupid. Just... Stupid.
Another problem is that Harrington started as a commoner, now suddenly she's a close relative to the Beowulf Head of State, that and half her ancestors are all suddenly majorly important folk.... People would have noticed such things. To have nobody do so is... Stupid. Just... Stupid.
All Weber's fans are saying finish it. Then hand the Torch line over to Eric and stick with the "Swordbrothers" fantasy series. I'm in their camp.
As for you're other point, if you expect an argument from me about it, go back to top subject. Torch I really like and they really don't like the concept of a nobility. That's pure Flint. David on the other hand, (Like myself I admit) are in the Society for Creative Anachronisms. (SCA) and he's a bit fetched with the concept, the tournaments, the "feasts" the trappings of feudalism. Our little fiefdom is more concerned with who's kid is going to play Ariel this season?
As for you're other point, if you expect an argument from me about it, go back to top subject. Torch I really like and they really don't like the concept of a nobility. That's pure Flint. David on the other hand, (Like myself I admit) are in the Society for Creative Anachronisms. (SCA) and he's a bit fetched with the concept, the tournaments, the "feasts" the trappings of feudalism. Our little fiefdom is more concerned with who's kid is going to play Ariel this season?
Last edited by Hank001 on Fri, 23. Feb 18, 08:34, edited 2 times in total.
The answer to life, the universe and everything:
MIND THE GAP
MIND THE GAP