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[TC] Question: friendly M148 Military Outpost
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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Mon, 13. Nov 17, 13:52    Post subject: [TC] Question: friendly M148 Military Outpost Reply with quote Print

Does anyone remember precisely how to get the Military Outpost in Argon Sector M148 (not the Military Base) to revert to 'blue' status at some point? I recall that it has to do with the order in which the Terran Conflict and Operation Final Fury plots are started and/or finished, but I forget the specifics. (I would, ideally, like to have both the MO and the MB available to me, for Argon marine recruitment, if possible.) I haven't started either of those plots yet, so if I do them in the right order I should be able to get my wish... Smile

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ubuntufreakdragon



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PostPosted: Mon, 13. Nov 17, 14:33    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

One Outpost ist used by the terran plot to deliver teladianium and free a terran, you need to play the plot that far.
All other stations belong to the final fury plot starting it is enough.


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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Mon, 13. Nov 17, 14:51    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

ubuntufreakdragon wrote:
One Outpost ist used by the terran plot to deliver teladianium and free a terran, you need to play the plot that far.
All other stations belong to the final fury plot starting it is enough.

I'm familiar with both - the problem is, the MO becomes 'red' during the Terran plot when rescuing the Terran being interrogated there (Pearle, I think?) It turns back 'blue' if things are done in the "correct" order, but I forget what that order is - just "starting it" is not enough, as I've had several playthroughs where all my plots were completed, but that MO remained 'red' throughout. So what I need to know is: do I have to start OFF after TC? (Probably 'yes') Do I also have to FINISH TC before starting OFF (probably "no", but I'm not sure), or can I start OFF before I complete TC? Some such little detail makes a crucial difference...


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ubuntufreakdragon



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PostPosted: Mon, 13. Nov 17, 17:09    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

well I played the Terren plot first, and this should the native way.
But after both plots a simple hack should be enough anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon, 13. Nov 17, 17:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

ubuntufreakdragon wrote:
But after both plots a simple hack should be enough anyway.

Hacking "missions" are not made available for that station, as far as I can tell - I tried in previous games, spent hours and hours and hours and... (well, you get the idea Very Happy ) looking, even when pirate bases were nearby - no dice. I don't think it's meant to be "hackable", possibly. Doing TC first and finishing it, then doing OFF, will probably do the trick (it may be that OFF initialisation resets all stations in M148 to their proper IFF status) - I just want to be sure if possible. I'm not in any hurry - this is X3TC: there is PLENTY to keep me busy until I decide to do those particular plots. Smile


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ubuntufreakdragon



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PostPosted: Mon, 13. Nov 17, 17:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hacking missions are quite stupid, just set e.g. Goner an enemy of your current ship and any station 3sectors around Elysium of Light will offer them including ALL red stations.


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PostPosted: Mon, 13. Nov 17, 17:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Yeah, well, I don't use *any* sort of exploits or game mechanic abuses... Wink Good to know, though, thanks (just because I like knowing things Very Happy )


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Bill Huntington



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PostPosted: Tue, 14. Nov 17, 06:20    Post subject: M148 Reply with quote Print

If I recall, the order of the plots doesn't matter. It's when you take hacks that the order gets screwed up. Then you don't get hacks again. I played TC through a few times so the knowledge is learned the hard way.

M148 works by flipping the stations to the opposite status. OFF turns all of them. The Terran plot just flips one of them. Logic tells you that makes them all the same. The order doesn't matter.


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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Tue, 14. Nov 17, 06:41    Post subject: Re: M148 Reply with quote Print

Bill Huntington wrote:
If I recall, the order of the plots doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, it most certainly does.

Bill Huntington wrote:
It's when you take hacks that the order gets screwed up. Then you don't get hacks again.

I've never found a hack option for that particular station (that doesn't prove it's not possible, of course - but it's been over the course of extremely extensive searching on those several X3TC playthroughs where that station did get stuck on 'red'.) Besides, it would be very very very rare indeed for me to bother (read: "decide that I can afford") to hack any station IFFs that early in a game, unless I'm specifically playing a pirate game - but those I generally reserve for X3AP where there is so much less plotty goodness to lose out on; I certainly haven't even thought about hacking any stations in my current game - I'm careful about stray shots, so I never piss off friendly stations, and in this current game I don't care about pirates (they all hate me intensely, as I've been working for the corporations, which has me killing lots of eye-patch-wearers Very Happy )

Bill Huntington wrote:
M148 works by flipping the stations to the opposite status. OFF turns all of them. The Terran plot just flips one of them. Logic tells you that makes them all the same. The order doesn't matter.

The logic there in fact indicates the exact opposite - that the order is crucial. Theoretically: the Terran plot makes that one station 'blue' initially (doesn't merely flip its status - if it's already 'blue' then it stays that way) to allow docking to deliver the Teladianium and spring Pearl, then back to 'red' (at the point of the break-out) forevermore. If the Kha'ak plot does indeed flip them ALL to 'blue' (again, regardless of their initial status - but until that point they WILL all be 'red' to begin with, unless any had been hacked - I've never done this, however), then if, and ONLY if, OFF is done AFTER TC will that one station become 'blue' again. I suspect this is the case - logic would suggest so, but this is contingent on the assumption that OFF does in fact flip all the M148 stations to 'blue', and also on the assumption that only those turning points of those plots count, and not, say, when the plot was completed. I guess I'll simply go on those assumption, and if it turns out they're incorrect, I'll simply have to live with it (again!) - it wouldn't be the end of the world in any case, as this playthrough is primarily for the purpose of once again unlocking a number of start scenarios (never "got a round tuit" since my last HDD crash, which was about a year ago) - I don't stick with any playthrough indefinitely in any case, as it's the early and mid phases that are usually of the most interest to me (once I get the bigger toys, I tend to get bored... Very Happy )

In any case, assuming the assumptions are correct (nested assumptions! LOL!) then the answer really is staring me in the face:
- Start the Terran plot
- Progress at least to the point of springing Pearle before starting Final Fury
I'll probably do both today, tomorrow latest, so I'll come back and report the outcome at that point Smile


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Timsup2nothin





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PostPosted: Tue, 14. Nov 17, 06:53    Post subject: Re: M148 Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:

In any case, assuming the assumptions are correct (nested assumptions! LOL!) then the answer really is staring me in the face:
- Start the Terran plot
- Progress at least to the point of springing Pearle before starting Final Fury
I'll probably do both today, tomorrow latest, so I'll come back and report the outcome at that point Smile


This works.


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PostPosted: Tue, 14. Nov 17, 07:06    Post subject: Re: M148 Reply with quote Print

Timsup2nothin wrote:
RAVEN.myst wrote:

In any case, assuming the assumptions are correct (nested assumptions! LOL!) then the answer really is staring me in the face:
- Start the Terran plot
- Progress at least to the point of springing Pearle before starting Final Fury
I'll probably do both today, tomorrow latest, so I'll come back and report the outcome at that point Smile


This works.

This sounds encouragingly positive/confident - ta! Smile


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Timsup2nothin





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PostPosted: Tue, 14. Nov 17, 08:18    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I'm confident. You just have to go through the red/blue/red cycle of the Terran plot completely before you trigger the 'all turn blue' of final fury.


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PostPosted: Tue, 14. Nov 17, 10:16    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

You can resolve some assumptions by looking at the plot scripts. They are "2.02 Khaak Plot" and "2.003 Terran Plot Scene 3" in the Director folder (using X3 editor to extract them). From poking at them, this is what I gathered regarding station relations:

1) At game start, Final Fury sets all stations in M148 as enemy.
2) When you progress the FF plot to entering M148 after following the Exterminator, it will turn the following friendly: 1 Military Base (called "L2M02.Base", selected by location), 1 equipment dock, all factories (includes the shipyard), and all laser towers. This does not touch the Terran plot Military Base.
3) The Terran plot will create its own military base (called "L2M003.Argon Military Station", selected by location) and set it friendly for the teladianium plot step.
4) When the Spacesuits fly out, the Terran plot sets its military base as enemy.
5) When the Terran plot step completes (return the passengers), it sets its military base to neutral.
6) There is also a mechanism to turn the Terran plot military base to enemy or friend base on player reputation with Argon, but that should be disabled once reaching step (4), so I don't think it would be an issue.

In short, the plots don't interact in any way regarding that military base's status, as far as I can see. There is no 'turn all bases friendly' part of Final Fury, since it selects the specific stations it will modify. Trying to solve the problem with plot order may be barking up the wrong tree.

I don't know what the problem would be otherwise, though. The game has some mechanisms for setting stations to enemy and back based on race reputation changes or player actions (eg. shooting a station), which could be involved. If you pick a game start that disables the Terran plot (eg. Aldrin adventurer), it will leave that military base set to enemy.

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Tue, 14. Nov 17, 11:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Thanks for some definitive info there, SirNukes. I'm also at something of a loss regarding this, as I've had games in which that MO reverted to neutral as it behooves it, and others in which it stayed hostile forever - despite me completing all plots in all games (well, with the occasional exception of The Hub, sometimes!), but often in different orders. I saw (years back) some discussion on the topic, but the info was inconclusive, all of it was flat-out contradictory, and even following the most credible/authoritative-sounding of them did not resolve the issue. I am fairly sure that in my very first playthrough (apparently, firsts are memorable Razz ) the end condition was as it's supposed to be (ie. MO neutral), which suggests to me that if plot order IS somehow involved (the details you dug up certainly contradict that, however), then doing them in the "supposedly correct" order *may* be the key - perhaps the bottom line is that there is actually some bug at play here, which was never fixed...


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Timsup2nothin





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PostPosted: Tue, 14. Nov 17, 17:48    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Or some bug that was fixed. A lot of the discussion about this issue does date pretty far back. The scripts currently in use do seem to indicate that there is not a problem. Maybe whatever happened in the past actually can't happen now even if you use the "wrong" order.


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