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X4 VR & Head Tracking control capability?
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Sandalpocalypse





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PostPosted: Tue, 29. Aug 17, 22:46    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

It doesn't negate that VR has severe performance concerns...

Elite:Dangerous only ever has one station on the screen at one time. X4 could have multiple stations, plus capital ships, plus lots of little ships, plus an asteroid belt, plus NPC models walking around, all at the same time and then double-rendered at high fps. I have nothing against VR games at all, but I don't want X4 compromised because of it.


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Ketraar
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PostPosted: Tue, 29. Aug 17, 23:41    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Just to be clear, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing, moderator or not. Wink

But my point was exactly that of performance, may worded it unclear, but comparing elite with XR/X4 is just wrong, for the reasons Sandalpocalypse described.

Apples and oranges and all that.

MFG

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Caldazar





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 01:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Sandalpocalypse wrote:
It doesn't negate that VR has severe performance concerns...

Elite:Dangerous only ever has one station on the screen at one time. X4 could have multiple stations, plus capital ships, plus lots of little ships, plus an asteroid belt, plus NPC models walking around, all at the same time and then double-rendered at high fps. I have nothing against VR games at all, but I don't want X4 compromised because of it.


And all the other ships and stations in the universe. The OOS calculations are simplified but they still take time. XR:VR has fewer stations that XR.

Also, graphic settings can be lowered to increase FPS. You don't have that option with the simulation.

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Silla





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 02:31    Post subject: Re: X4 VR & Head Tracking control capability? Reply with quote Print

Vanir wrote:
Will X4 have VR and head tracking capabilities?


Why not go with a facetracking software instead .. . very cheap and works almost just as well. You only need a decent webcam for this ...

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Koboldx





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 03:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Sandalpocalypse wrote:
It doesn't negate that VR has severe performance concerns...

Elite:Dangerous only ever has one station on the screen at one time. X4 could have multiple stations, plus capital ships, plus lots of little ships, plus an asteroid belt


False information, here is a video from ED with a station and 2 Kapital Ships and NPC Ships docking...
https://youtu.be/pyrYh2dhsC8

And there are even now Asteroid Belt Station.

Sandalpocalypse wrote:

plus NPC models walking around, all at the same time and then double-rendered at high fps. I have nothing against VR games at all, but I don't want X4 compromised because of it.

I think you got alot against VR, cause there is no compromised for VR... thats total wrong, if someone want to play with low graphic settings, doesnt mean you have to use the same settings, i think your post is selfish.

Ketraar wrote:
But X is NOT Elite and if all you want is fly in empty space then you are probably set with elite.


Okay empty space like this?
https://youtu.be/Mt67MLcTDpA?t=173

Ketraar wrote:

The point is that many player like X games for the economy simulation, or the building aspect. None of which are enhance by VR but would require to be balanced (aka stripped) to work or allow the frame rates that VR requires.


Almost everything in this presetation doesnt make sense, people are playing XR-VR with the default XR universe and they love it:

https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=395702

I think the only reason for egosoft is to release a seperated version to get payed twice, the devs use the same engine and the same API and im pretty sure it would be running okay for people with Highend PC's.

Just to get this clear, everyone who play x4 in future in 4k with 60fps got no problems to play it in VR with 90fps even with higher resolution than the VR native res and the native resolution is only 2140x1080 at this moment.

As long egosoft would do his job and optimise their game for the newest CPUs and GPUs, everyone should be fine to play it in a decent framerate... and if not there are other features like Asynchron Time Warp and Asynchron Space Warp, if his PC's cant handle it.

I saw in the presentation at gamescom no true reason why egosoft dont get x4 VR ready... and if its the man power problem, i dont know why egosoft waste time for some shaders for the background Planets and still got this really low polygon NPC's.



Last edited by Koboldx on Wed, 30. Aug 17, 03:47; edited 1 time in total
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Sandalpocalypse





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 03:43    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

oh sorry forgot to put in a disclaimer for the literally 0.2% of stations that have a capital ship dock, mb

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Reprisal





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 09:02    Post subject: Re: X4 VR & Head Tracking control capability? Reply with quote Print

Silla wrote:
Vanir wrote:
Will X4 have VR and head tracking capabilities?


Why not go with a facetracking software instead .. . very cheap and works almost just as well. You only need a decent webcam for this ...


Are you saying that facetracking with a webcam and playing on a flatscreen is the same as VR? That's just not true.

Hopefully the work Egosoft has done on X Rebirth VR will help with getting the tech into X4. A true X game with VR is the killer app that VR needs.

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rp198419





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 13:52    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I will never purchase X4 if it doesn't support VR.

In fact, I don't buy any flat-screen games now; there is no point.

After the incredible experience of VR (inclusing XRebirth VR (Oculus) which is great), I have no interest in games that use antique, 20th century visualisation media.

Of course, if it's too much trouble trouble for EgoSoft, well...

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Silla





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 13:52    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Im not saying it's the same as VR but it is a solution to headtracking hardware.

Besides that VR won't be possible for X4 for the first version as you need a game to be developed for VR to begin with to go VR ..but this has been explained before. A game that can run 60fps fine versus a game that needs 200fps you will just limit the possibilities for the 60fps version. Asking for VR is like asking for a console port on a less powerful system due to output restrictions... that is why you will have to wait for the port as VR version.

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rp198419





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 14:04    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ketraar wrote:
But X is NOT Elite and if all you want is fly in empty space then you are probably set with elite. The point is that many player like X games for the economy simulation, or the building aspect. None of which are enhance by VR but would require to be balanced (aka stripped) to work or allow the frame rates that VR requires.

This is easy to understand and the developer said its the better choice for the reasons presented. Doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

MFG

Ketraar


If you had ever flown around a massive space station that you had just finished building ir get up close and personal to the drones doing their work, you would truly appreciate the scale of it all.

And I totally disagree with you; the economic sim and the building aspect are BOTH enhanced by VR. I spend hours in XRVR flying around watching ships delivering to my stations, waiting for them to arrive or watching the plate foundry process from ore crushing to container packaging, all in massive, 3D, real-life scale.

Don't knock it if you haven't tried it...and if you have tried it and still say VR does not enhance the building and economic aspects, I feel sorry for you.

Enjoy your prehistoric television screen...but let the rest of us enjoy X4 in VR.

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Koboldx





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 14:18    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Silla wrote:

Besides that VR won't be possible for X4 for the first version as you need a game to be developed for VR to begin with to go VR ..but this has been explained before. A game that can run 60fps fine versus a game that needs 200fps you will just limit the possibilities for the 60fps version. Asking for VR is like asking for a console port on a less powerful system due to output restrictions... that is why you will have to wait for the port as VR version.


You repead was bernd told us at the presentation from gamescom but its a lie, cause VR need only 90fps (45fps for Asynchronous Spacewarp) and not 200fps and the developer could get some graphics options for the VR version, to disable some effects its not magic... and btw x-rebirth was a console port, they got a deal with microsoft to release it for xbox, to bad it never comes out to xbox after the bad release.
And this is why we got stupid gamepad controlls there and why u see in x4 now this low poly character modells everywhere.

I said already, people are playing the non-VR version in VR now, cause there is no need for a seperate version.



Last edited by Koboldx on Wed, 30. Aug 17, 14:23; edited 1 time in total
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rp198419





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 14:19    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Observe wrote:
X2-Illuminatus wrote:
And then there's also the question after the market saturation of VR, which is still rather low.

From what I can see, indications are that VR as we currently know it, will remain a small fringe market because of cost and cumbersome hardware among other reasons. Certainly not worth putting precious development resources into initially.


Not true. If it were, sales would have stagnated, which they have not.

Indications are, in fact, that market share will increase significantly over the next 3 years:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paullamkin/2017/02/27/playstation-vr-sales-near-1-million-with-huge-vr-boom-predicted/#30b0bd1c79e6

VR costs have dropped 20% in the last year alone and, to be brutally honest, if you are trying to run today's games on an old machine, you need to wake up to the fact that time - and tech - moves on.

So, in my opinion, you are wrong on every count.

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rp198419





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 14:24    Post subject: Re: X4 VR & Head Tracking control capability? Reply with quote Print

Silla wrote:
Vanir wrote:
Will X4 have VR and head tracking capabilities?


Why not go with a facetracking software instead .. . very cheap and works almost just as well. You only need a decent webcam for this ...


Because the experience in VR is TOTALLY different to face-tracking in 2D.

If you had tried both, you would not say that they are the same.

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Silla





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 14:33    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Dude I'm aware that this is not the same... but let's get real here VR is still quite expensive and not everyone is as rich as you. Just because you can afford it doesn't mean the reality of consumer marked did change. And the reality is that VR is still to expensive for most consumers playing games of which many don't earn their own money yet or they don't earn enough to think they have to buy VR googles and needed pc hardware ... X4 will most likely become VR at some point but not when it is first released, so wait until then if you need it to be in VR.



Last edited by Silla on Wed, 30. Aug 17, 15:11; edited 3 times in total
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Silla





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PostPosted: Wed, 30. Aug 17, 14:57    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Koboldx wrote:
Silla wrote:

Besides that VR won't be possible for X4 for the first version as you need a game to be developed for VR to begin with to go VR ..but this has been explained before. A game that can run 60fps fine versus a game that needs 200fps you will just limit the possibilities for the 60fps version. Asking for VR is like asking for a console port on a less powerful system due to output restrictions... that is why you will have to wait for the port as VR version.


You repead was bernd told us at the presentation from gamescom but its a lie, cause VR need only 90fps (45fps for Asynchronous Spacewarp) and not 200fps and the developer could get some graphics options for the VR version, to disable some effects its not magic... and btw x-rebirth was a console port, they got a deal with microsoft to release it for xbox, to bad it never comes out to xbox after the bad release.
And this is why we got stupid gamepad controlls there and why u see in x4 now this low poly character modells everywhere.

I said already, people are playing the non-VR version in VR now, cause there is no need for a seperate version.



Im not an expert on this but those 90 fps are considered for both eyes needed to prevent motion thickness, right? ...hence you get either double the pixels or double the framerate. That is where your 200 fps are coming from if you consider a backup of additional 10 fps. The ASW is an interprolation technique that is only supposed to reduce the problem of drops in framerates and can introduce artifacts on display, it makes it possible to run on lower specs but it is neither the perfect solution nor is it platform independent as ASW is an implementation for Oculus originally and I'm not sure how well the Vive does it if at all.... so i think Bernd is not lying here about the needed specification when it comes to an optimized VR experience that will work on many systems good enough. Besides that why would he lie about this ... i think he will know more about these technicalities than we do and if it is so easy to make the normal game run on VR...just do it than.


PS. This claim of XR being originally a console port and them having a contract with Microsoft... would need something more than just assumptions. How about a copy of that contract ? Again it makes no sense to me ... and even if it did ...what has it do with anything, it is their game and they can do what they want with it. The only thing that I want is a proper game that works well on one platform first and that is what they said they are going to do... and as most consumers and fans are using a desktop PC for now ... it should be done well on PC first. I really don't get what you try to achieve.

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