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Hitch-hiked capital goes nowhere after move order, new in 4.10
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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Fri, 18. Aug 17, 15:43    Post subject: Hitch-hiked capital goes nowhere after move order, new in 4.10 Reply with quote Print

I've been experiencing a very frequent issue when ordering the captain of a capital ship I am landed on. If I give a move order (and once, a refuel order), the captain acknowledges it and the ship's order info indicates the active order, but the ship goes nowhere, doesn't turn, does nothing, just remains stationary. I then have to cancel the order and reissue it, and it is *sometimes* then carried out, but more reliable is to cancel the order, then fly somewhere else and get the ship to follow me (presumably to make it change its orientation), then re-dock and re-issue the order.

Just to be clear: I am NOT referring to cases where the ship is awaiting its turn in a queue, such as at a busy jumpgate. This *may* have accounted for the lack of movement to the refuelling station (though it didn't appear busy - however, there may have been other ships inbound already, reserving the docks), but it is clearly not the case when issuing simple orders such as "take me to [zone]".

I have been unable to determine much of a pattern in terms of conditions that need to be true for the movement to fail, other than that it seems more likely when the ship is facing away from the desired destination. The ship in question is a Balor, no damage, with a 4/4/4 captain.

EDIT: Additional
This may or may not be related, but sometimes (mostly in Toride, or having just entered a system via jumpgate) the Balor in question fails to engage its booster in the course of normal travel, and the move order has to be cancelled and re-issued, at which point usually the ship's booster is engaged immediately or nearly so.


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Last edited by RAVEN.myst on Fri, 18. Aug 17, 16:44; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri, 18. Aug 17, 15:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

One known capital command issue situation is when the ship would need to turn either to or from a near vertical (up or down) stance. Then the AI pathfinding can seem to freeze. Did that apply at all?

Other pathfinding issues can occur if the ship is in or entering an unknown space zone.

Lastly browsing this thread may give you some further ideas.


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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Fri, 18. Aug 17, 16:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Alan Phipps wrote:
One known capital command issue situation is when the ship would need to turn either to or from a near vertical (up or down) stance. Then the AI pathfinding can seem to freeze. Did that apply at all?

Other pathfinding issues can occur if the ship is in or entering an unknown space zone.

Lastly browsing this thread may give you some further ideas.


The "near-vertical stance" issue is not applicable - all cases that I remember were with the ship horizontal or nearly so. In fact, in some (perhaps most?) cases, it had been at rest for quite some time. There has also been a mix of cases where I had docked onto it recently (majority of cases), and cases where I had been aboard for some time (minority of cases.)

Unknown space zones: some cases were in or entering such zones, others haven't (I think the former may comprise the majority.)

Thanks for the link - I did look for a related thread before posting, but apparently I must be going blind Very Happy I'll pop on over to that thread.


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PostPosted: Sat, 19. Aug 17, 12:20    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

ADDITIONAL:
Taking multi-system trips in the Balor (will test with other ships soon), I'm finding that upon traversing a jumpgate, the ship floats idly on 'sublight' engines on the other side, despite having and displaying a travel order, requiring reissuing of the travel order in order to resume the trip. On a recent trip from Omicron Lyrae to Home of Light (via Maelstrom and Toride), this happened *at every single* jumpgate, requiring repeated reissuing of the order. The only exception (if such it even was), was after the final jump (into HoL), where the ship behaved identically, but because the destination was in another sector, it engaged its jumpdrive while sauntering casually away from the gate. (Incidentally, in order to test as thoroughly as possible, on some occasions I waited a good 5mins after gate traversal, to make sure there wasn't something else at play - in all cases, the trip remained stalled for the duration; for example, after crossing into Maelstrom, the ship chugged along slowly *in the wrong direction* for the entire 5 minutes, until I reordered the trip to HoL, at which point it turned around and engaged the booster correctly.)

I hope this description is helpfully detailed, rather than confusing.


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PostPosted: Thu, 24. Aug 17, 12:30    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Thanks for the report. Investigating the latter report (needing to reissue movement order upon traversing a gate) now.

i'm afraid will need more details about the first report (capship not moving upon move order) unless i chance upon it. Most useful would be either steps to reliably reproduce the problem or a save where the problem always happens. We'll have to catch it before the ship gets the order.

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PostPosted: Thu, 24. Aug 17, 12:54    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Update: Tested with a Balor bought in Albion and asked to "Take me to" Barren Heart in DeVries. After getting there, asked the Balor to take me to Serra's End in Terracorp Headquarters in HOL.

Couldn't reproduce the issue, unfortunately. That said, there are some pauses shortly after crossing gates. Upon crossing a jump gate, the ship proceeds to:

- jump (in which case the ship stops to charge up the jump drive),
- move to the next gate (in which case the ship could stop to wait for the gate to be free in case someone else reserved it beforehand),
- or boost to the next spot if already in the correct sector. (pause in this case is simply the delay while plotting a course to the next spot)

Longest stop happened when the ship had to jump after crossing a gate and didn't have any fuel.

Could you please retest without issuing new movement orders between gates?

Also did you give your captain a "Take me to" order, or some different movement order? Shouldn't matter, but would be good to test similar conditions.

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PostPosted: Thu, 24. Aug 17, 15:41    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Greetings! Thanks for investigating, here are some further details as requested:

j.harshaw wrote:
Update: Tested with a Balor bought in Albion and asked to "Take me to" Barren Heart in DeVries. After getting there, asked the Balor to take me to Serra's End in Terracorp Headquarters in HOL.

Couldn't reproduce the issue, unfortunately.

I experienced the issues in Home of Light expansion sectors, mostly Toride and Cold Star, and occasionally HoL itself. I don't know whether any of this even happens in, say, DeVries as I haven't been there since 4.10 patch yet (been testing some very HoL-centric things, all with encouraging results Smile ) I don't remember whether I've had the problems while navigating within Albion or Omicron Lyrae, so for now I think we can assume it doesn't happen there (though I've spent relatively little time in those systems in these recent games.)

j.harshaw wrote:
That said, there are some pauses shortly after crossing gates. Upon crossing a jump gate, the ship proceeds to:

- jump (in which case the ship stops to charge up the jump drive),
- move to the next gate (in which case the ship could stop to wait for the gate to be free in case someone else reserved it beforehand),
- or boost to the next spot if already in the correct sector. (pause in this case is simply the delay while plotting a course to the next spot)

The only times I was confident that the ship wouldn't get stuck is when it had to do a jump afterward. In these cases, it moved idly away from the gate, but charged up its jumpdrive and executed the jump as normal. In none of the cases was it necessary to go from gate to gate directly (only place I can think of where that applies is in Cold Star where there are gates to HoL and Albion in the same zone), so this also wasn't the issue. In all cases, it was where the gate was traversed, and then the ship was due to align and boost somewhere, and simply wouldn't. In all cases, ships were fuelled up.

j.harshaw wrote:
Could you please retest without issuing new movement orders between gates?

I already did - but after waiting for 5 minutes or longer at some stops, I lost patience. I think 5 mins should be more than enough for any parameters to be calculated, yes? Wink That being said, I'll try to remember to issue some long travel order any time I leave the game unattended, and if possible in a variety of ships. The hassles I experienced have mostly (or perhaps even only - not sure, sorry) been while travelling between Omicron Lyrae and Home of Light, in both directions (the route takes me through Toride and Maelstrom, so a 4-system trip including end-points.)

j.harshaw wrote:
Also did you give your captain a "Take me to" order, or some different movement order? Shouldn't matter, but would be good to test similar conditions.

OK, here I have different answers for the two issues. In the case of getting stuck after gates, I always use "Take me to" as the simplest and most direct command. However, the issue with the ship getting stuck arbitrarily happened in response to both "Take me to" (occasional, quite rare) and "Fly to position" with a specific point designated (very often), usually during the course of exploring the Cold Star and Toride sectors to map in the various zones.

Incidentally, I have experienced the problems with a Light Sul and possibly (not 100% sure at this point) a Rahanas (Container & Energy) as well, though I can't compare frequency due to uneven usage periods and styles (for example, I didn't fly around exploring in a freighter.)

I wish I could give some method to reliably reproduce the issues, but they are intermittent (notoriously the most irritating ones, and the most difficult to nail down.)

EDIT: Just a few extra details, in case any are relevant:
- I only ever have captains with skills of 4-5 in all three primary disciplines drive me around, and all my capital ships get 5-star engineers. Ship I was aboard in these cases were undamaged or fully repaired in all cases.
- In all cases, there were no combat drones installed, so there was no issue of awaiting return of drones.
- The order shown for the ship was always the correct one (so, no "calculating parameters" or anything else of an extraneous nature.)
- The problems have only occurred when I was aboard the ship in question and hitching a ride (I think this has been taken as read, but just stating it for the sake of thoroughness.)
- Most cases were with no enemies around (so no hostile interference), though the problems have sometimes also occurred in some situations where under attack by pirates or Xenon (incidentally, "Withdraw from battle" has been responding well, and has so far managed to get the wheels out of the mud every time - I might try using this as a workaround for the time being.)
- Cancelling the order (either through "Stop current task" or "Follow me again", depending on which is available) doesn't always sort out the looking-around-admiring-the-scenery issue, but has always gotten me moving after a gate traversal.

If I think of anything else, I'll update accordingly.
Regards, and happy hunting!


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PostPosted: Thu, 24. Aug 17, 21:03    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@ j.harshaw:

OK, just to complicate matters:
As you requested, I made a pair of saves - one just prior to this issue happening (by sheer luck - I make full saves, ie. besides quicksaves, roughly hourly) and one after the ship (in this case a Balor traveling from Cold Peaks to District 5 in West Gate, HoL) had been stuck after gate travel (in District 1, West Gate) for about 15 minutes.

Having waited this long, satisfied that the ship was well and truly stuck in the mud, I first reloaded the second save (while stuck) - upon loading, the ship immediately turned toward its destination and started boosting. I then loaded the prior save, just before entering the same gate - the ship traverses the gate, moves away from it slowly for a bit, then turns and boosts. So, well and truly an intermittent fault. *sigh...*

(Incidentally, Alt-TAB out and back in doesn't get the ship unstuck.)

I can make those saves available to you in case you think they may be of "forensic" value (though I'm hardly optimistic) - let me know.


EDIT: Additional:
I ran the round-trip route again (back to Cold Peaks in Albion, then back to Home of Light's District 5) and after entering HoL through the gate at District 01, the ship (Balor) engaged its engines briefly, flew forward a bit to clear the gate, then powered down its engines and sat there, ignoring its movement order (showing: Fly to District 05 - Flying). Issuing a new "Take me to" order without even cancelling the old order woke up the captain.


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PostPosted: Thu, 24. Aug 17, 23:04    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I, too, have experienced this issue, and in several different capital ships - Balor, Titurel, Taranis, Sanahar, Rahanas (from what I recall). It happens when traversing from OL to Maelstrom, Maelstrom to Toride, HoL to Toride and Toride to Maelstrom. I think it's happened once or twice from Maelstrom to OL, too. Those are the ones I remember, but there may have been other situations, as well.

Unfortunately, I don't have any unmodded saves to illustrate it, or even modded ones for that matter, as I haven't played Rebirth in a while. I just wanted to confirm R.m's problem as not his alone. Smile


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PostPosted: Thu, 24. Aug 17, 23:19    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

one more confirmation from me. <move_to/>-command is given to a Ship (confirmed with my Debug Output - no way it could have been skipped or anything), but the Ship takes ages till it starts moving, if at all. (changing Attention to lesser than visible for a moment usually fixes this)

Note: this was observed with my custom movement Scripts, but the base function both vanilla and mine use is the same ( <move_to/> )


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PostPosted: Fri, 25. Aug 17, 14:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@ Nanook: Are you also saying that this problem is not new to 4.10 as suggested by the OP in the thread title?


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PostPosted: Fri, 25. Aug 17, 20:09    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

To be honest, I don't remember when I first noticed it, although it seems to have gone on longer than a couple of months. I haven't played since April or early May, so my best guess is yes, it was before 4.10.


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PostPosted: Fri, 22. Sep 17, 10:20    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I'm not sure if this is the same issue exactly, but I have had frequent trouble getting captured cap ships to jump even if I don't damage the jump drive, or I get the jump drive repaired. Most recently, I had this happen after capturing a Titurel mostly intact and letting it fully repair. The jump drive is in perfect condition, ship has enough fuel for more than 10 jumps, and it's in my squad, but it won't jump. I've gone to other sectors and asked it to jump to me and it still does not. I've tried giving it the order to refuel, at which point the order switches to refueling but it just sits there doing nothing. I'm no stranger to capital ships, I have a fleet of them already and have used them extensively in the logistics chain for my stations. I know about how long it takes them to do things. This ship is stuck. The captain's order always defaults to "Calculating Parameters", and occasionally switches to what I want it to do before quickly switching back to Calculating Parameters. This has happened before as well. Sometimes the ship recovers within an hour or so, sometimes it takes 3 or more hours, sometimes it just ends up getting destroyed by some roaming enemy after doing nothing for many hours.

For a long time I had no idea why this happened with some ships and not with others, then I was lucky to happen upon a damaged ship and captured it very quickly, without my usual process of hacking it first. It jumped out quickly after I gave the order. A few more experiments later and I am starting to suspect the problem has something to do with hacking. I had made a habit of hacking a ship with a drone before boarding it, because this prevents it from jumping as well as disabling the turrets, making it easy to board. However, if this effect is still active after it's been captured, it could be preventing the ship from jumping, as if it's still hacked. I don't know how long the hack effect is supposed to last, but so far all of the ships I've hacked before boarding seem to have this problem, though I've only tested a couple since I came up with this theory.

I don't know if this is related to the problems others have had in this thread, but I thought I'd throw it in here anyway in case it helps. If my suspicion is correct, my suggestion would be to have the ship's hacked status get cleared once it's been boarded - or have some way to allow the player to purge the virus from the ship.

In any case, I can continue to test this if needed.

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PostPosted: Fri, 22. Sep 17, 13:55    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@Rob Allen: Thanks for your observations - I guess it's a good thing that I never hack ships prior to boarding them, then (but if ever I do, I will know not to be surprised by anomalies.)

The overwhelming majority of ships found to suffer the problems had been purchased, one was acquired from abandoned state by landing and assigning crew (abandoned Balor in Cold Star), and a couple/few were acquired through boarding.

(Mis)behaviour also witnessed on capital ships not "being ridden" but in the same zone. Most (but not all) of these were in Omicron Lyrae, and many had been ordered to refuel and merely sat there (no, the refuelling station wasn't full or fully queued - cancelling the order and getting ship in question then reissuing refuel order resulted in immediate compliance; alternatively, leaving the zone also resulted in ship in question immediately proceeding to refuel - each of these approaches tested several times, with 100% success, so extremely unlikely to be timing coinciding with refueling queues clearing.)

Ships that can be added to the pile of models witnessed to be affected:
- Lyranea
- Olmekron
Several other assorted models, including both fighting ships and freighters (unsure about freighters/CVs) - but I'm afraid it has been several weeks, so am foggy on specifics, sorry


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