EnglishGermanFrenchRussianItalianSpanish
Log inRegister
 
[4.20 HF2] FEEDBACK / BUG - No Reinforced Metal Plating - Improved in update
Post new topic Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
theManx





Joined: 10 Sep 2017



PostPosted: Thu, 14. Sep 17, 19:22    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@BirdTable I did, just the other side the highway from of District 8 which is only 2 stops down from district 6, the construction shop in the same sector that produces RMP.

I've left the game running now for over 6 hours. I Assigned my Rahanas to my architect on Sparky's suggestion after I discovered the game utilizing an underground locked economy.

My station is growing but SLOWLY. It no longer NEEDS anything and looks like its about 3 quarters done.

Hind sight is 20/20 and I have about a week of diagnostic work behind me in this, so the nagging questions I have are about this underground locked economy. I spent a good 3 hours last night investigating the construction shop to try to understand;
1. Why it was producing and storing RMP but not making it available for sale.
2. Why with a production schedule from just ONE of the multiple plants showing 370 units per 15 minutes (roughly) , the construction shop wasn't accumulating any stock beyond that of s single production run.
3. How the NPC ship was able to buy the stock roughly every 15 minutes and it wouldn't even list as a trade item sold by a station for me
4. Why a trade of product from one station to another for any purpose, would be hidden from the trade computer entirely.

I finally had to monitor the construction shop and watch all ship comings and goings to discover the movement of goods and the station the ship was working for.

Now I get the element of leaving things for discovery to make it challenging but lets face it, in the context of a trade economy in a game, putting an underground economy is akin to turning space into a gigantic invisible maze that you have to navigate by collisions alone, just to make things more "challenging". Its making things difficult just for the sake of making them difficult. Its extreme and I have a lot of trouble believing anyone thought that up as an intentional thing to do to the game.

As a programmer of 37+ years I know the older and more complex the code, the greater is the chance of a nasty foul up from innocent changes. This smells like an RMP balance change that went horribly wron and thankfully didn't have the same impact on the former DLC module as it did the rest of the environment.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
birdtable





Joined: 07 Feb 2004
Posts: 1342 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Thu, 14. Sep 17, 20:42    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Been playing Egosoft games ever since they started selling them . As I said ..."unless some magic happens"
There is no economy... well no real economy... You have to deny economic reality accept illusion and learn to bend a little ,, over the years I have become very bendy..
The task is to create a miniature self sufficient empire of your own ,, because that is all there is.
Wait untill you try the warehouse .... Smile Smile
The challenge is not to make money but make an efficient distrubution service within your constructions .. like a giant model railway......

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theManx





Joined: 10 Sep 2017



PostPosted: Thu, 14. Sep 17, 21:17    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Actually, I think those were the very words my government representative said when he informed me I had to pay more taxes.

DUDE.. Seriously.. Do you really believe anyone who plays a game building space stations and fending off alien attacks is inflexibly attached to reality?

I'm real happy for you in your "Bendiness". I personally like it when the fantasy I PAY for has enough consistency to adhere to its own imagined version of a reality.

This isn't an existential experience. This is a broken product that has promise and an effort to help it realize that promise. This forum thread is a testament to that very fact.

If you would like to accept that there is no bug, just the illusion of a bug, more power to you. Follow the white rabbit

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ezarkal





Joined: 22 Apr 2015

Location: Somewhere in my head

PostPosted: Thu, 14. Sep 17, 21:54    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

theManx wrote:

3. How the NPC ship was able to buy the stock roughly every 15 minutes and it wouldn't even list as a trade item sold by a station for me


From personal experience (non-vr version), wares that are in super-high demand simply gets sold fast. In the campaign of the original game, there is a similar issue with fusion reactors at the point where you have to build your first station. So when a production cycle finished, there's a short delay before the wares gets shown on the trade menu, then it takes less than a minute before everything gets sold out. Wares are then "kept aside" for the factions that bought them until their ships can come and pick them up.

Now, I don't have XR:VR, but the way I understand it they removed some of the NPC stations (to help with performance issues, I assume). As they did that, they accidentally removed the only two construction shops in albion, so there's simply no production of RMP in that system, which might be why they sell like hotcakes in other places. I believe ES is already on the case in order to address that. The game is still in early access after all.

I get that it's a huge problem, especially for new players that may not know every small quirks of the game (and the game has a lot of them). But at the same time, it's early access. ES will fix this. In the meantime, try to build your own construction shop in albion. It should yield massive, massive profits. Using your own traders to manually buying the RMPs from OL and HoL to facilitate building will speed up the process massively. (NPC universe traders tend to be few and far between.) Make sure the station producing the ware as end product are well supplied, and be quick to buy and you should be fine.


As for your station building super-slowly, how many construction URVs do you have assigned to your CV, and how many are in use? Among the numerous quirks I mentioned above, here are a few that are good to know.
1- Each station type got different building speed, usually in relation to the station's price.
2- the 5 construction URVs (cURVs for short) mentioned in the upkeep mission are usually barely sufficient to build your station. If you only have 5, it will be slow. Try to get between 20 and 40 to speed up the process
3- Assigning new cURVs during the build will not change anything, since your CV will only use the cURVs it had on board when you started up the building process. They will be used for later stage, though.
4- It also means that if all your cURVs gets wiped out in a pirate attack, your station will never get finished. (Unless this was patched recently???)
5- Following the same patterns, ordering too quickly the build of a second module once the first one was finished is not a good idea: Only the drones that will have time to dock before the build order is given will be used for the next time.
6- A good workaround for point 4 and 5 is to be "out of sight" (in another zone/sector) while the station is building: Drones will still be counted for build speed, but they won't get actually launched. So they'll be safe from raids and always ready for the next steps.
7- Building "out of sight" is simply faster, somehow.


_________________
"I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...
I'm saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem solve itself out."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theManx





Joined: 10 Sep 2017



PostPosted: Thu, 14. Sep 17, 22:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hi Ezarkal,
Thanks, that made a lot of sense. I really appreciate your answer on that question.

As for the rest of it, I know its early access.. For the VR version. I also know the base product is over 10 years old and in the past couple weeks have spent a massive amount of time reading through Egosoft & Steam threads about all sorts of problems. This particular one has been mentioned as far back as 2013. Actually many of the solutions I have found have been from complaint and bug forums dating back as far as 2007. So suffice to say much of this has gone on a very long time.

I don't waste my time. I spend it where I believe there is value. I believe this game has some value and thus the only reason I'm posting anything. That having been said, messages like, "It's not a priority right now" which has has been used in this thread help explain the continued existence of a 4 year old issue that has annoyed and lost players. Due respect to Sparky's more recent efforts to get this on the table.

Truth be known, someone in the Oculus ratings feedback posted the game was a broken waste of time because of this exact RMP problem and urged people not to waste their money on it. These kinds of things are like house bugs. If you see one, there are hundreds more you don't see. I'm fighting hard not to accept that feedback as true. Sadly I'm beginning to see its uphill.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Boeng01





Joined: 01 Aug 2017

Location: at the border

PostPosted: Thu, 14. Sep 17, 23:24    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

j.harshaw wrote:
Hi,

we have been discussing possible solutions to help assuage this situation, and are at a point where we're ready to test. If someone could be so kind as to donate a save where the game is in a fairly advanced state and where Reinforced Metal Plating supplies in Albion are chronically short, it would be of much help and would be greatly appreciated.


Thx for getting into it, finally Smile

What exactly is a 'fairly advanced state' for you? From my experience, the problem occurs especially at early stages, whlie trying to build your first stations to start the production of those extremely rare products. As soon as those are delivering (RMP and Fusionreactors), everything starts to work out, at least this is what i felt in the games i started.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
j.harshaw
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT



Joined: 23 Nov 2015



PostPosted: Fri, 15. Sep 17, 02:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Boeng01 wrote:
What exactly is a 'fairly advanced state' for you?

Around a hundred hours in would be good. Simply making RMP more abundant is easy, but exactly how abundant is rather tricky. We're hoping to find the sweet spot where, in an advanced save, the ship rights itself without causing imbalances.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sparky Sparkycorp
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 6774 on topic
Location: UK
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Fri, 15. Sep 17, 02:31    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Semi-related thought on trade balance in XRVR:

IIRC, each successive DLCs added a small number of additional galaxy trader NPCs to ensure at least a little inter-system trade occured in classic XR.

Did XRVR have the total number of such NPCs adjusted to match the VR galaxy's adjusted layout? I imagine "yes" but it seems relevant to ask in the context of this thread.


_________________
X:R mod list. X:R Wiki.
Updated TC/AP Bonus Pack. AP TS efficiency.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
birdtable





Joined: 07 Feb 2004
Posts: 1342 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Fri, 15. Sep 17, 20:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I have 4 stations with 15 trade ships plus another 20 traders and they are working flat out trying to service 4 stations... (buying small lots as they become available and because of small repeated deliveries congestion occurs)
Spacefuel as an example ... at the moment I need around 40000 and there is 0 to be found .. I have bought it all...
Need more NPC Trader Ships and they need to be fully stocked....

Edit ... Having checked a bit more, there are a large number of NPC TradeShips travelling empty looking for trades which do not appear to exist because stations are also short of commodities.

You can sleep next week..... Smile

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tuyijop





Joined: 27 Apr 2015



PostPosted: Mon, 18. Sep 17, 01:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Same for me...the main plot don't work ...after few wave...nada !! eveywhere...every galaxy...after 97 hours....and no plating metal reinforced...for constructibg station....97 hours to turn around....Pfff Evil or Very Mad


Comments split and merged with other report. Plot comment noted. But please try to keep other reports to their own thread (to stop them de-railing e.g with the below comment.) Xenon_Slayer

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mavo Pi



MEDALMEDALMEDAL

Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 502 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 18. Sep 17, 08:18    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

tuyijop wrote:
Same for me...the main plot don't work ...after few wave...nada !! eveywhere...every galaxy...after 97 hours....and no plating metal reinforced...for constructibg station....97 hours to turn around....Pfff Evil or Very Mad


Regarding the reinforced metal plating you should build your own production. To finish it I looked at the storage of the construction shop in Home of Light district 6 and provided the missing ressources (mostly energy cells, works fine with gigurums). When the RMP is in storage fly away from the station and reapproach it to force an update of the trade data. Then you can order a container transport to bring it to your construction ship. If there are not even enough RMP to build a construction ship you will have to deliver the ressources to the shipyard first. From my experience RMP is too rare in X-Rebirth VR to rely on NPC traders to deliver it.


_________________
"Willkommen auf dieser Yaki Station fühl dich wohl du bist unter Freunden"
"Würden sie sich bitte etwas beeilen, meine Tentakel trocknen aus" Very Happy
Emcall AL-Plugin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
birdtable





Joined: 07 Feb 2004
Posts: 1342 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 18. Sep 17, 10:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

On a lighter note spotted the UFO in Omicron,, sadly it was carrying no RMP but appeared to be moving faster or maybe my reactions are slower.. Nice to see it though..

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lemril



MEDALMEDALMEDAL

Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 342 on topic
Location: Paris, France
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 18. Sep 17, 11:01    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hi, I use mod but I dont have that affect this subject.
here is one of my save before I wanted to start build stations and I see the problem.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7ln0gecrsia12h5/AABgZS0W6mIeLYngxAGuZnoXa?dl=0

I think that there is not enough energie in Omicron Lyrae.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sparky Sparkycorp
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 6774 on topic
Location: UK
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 18. Sep 17, 11:43    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Lemril wrote:
Hi, I use mod but I dont have that affect this subject.
here is one of my save before I wanted to start build stations and I see the problem.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7ln0gecrsia12h5/AABgZS0W6mIeLYngxAGuZnoXa?dl=0

I think that there is not enough energie in Omicron Lyrae.

Thank you for sharing your save. Mods are not ideal but as this is the only save offered so far, it might still be useful.

Do anyone else have a vanilla save? If it's on 20-odd hours old it still night be useful as an additional datapoint for the Devs.


_________________
X:R mod list. X:R Wiki.
Updated TC/AP Bonus Pack. AP TS efficiency.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tuyijop





Joined: 27 Apr 2015



PostPosted: Mon, 18. Sep 17, 21:31    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

For me same problem and not mod installed

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
Control Panel
Login Data
The time now is Tue, 14. Aug 18, 19:56

All times are GMT + 2 Hours

[ Disclaimer / Impressum ] | [ Privacy Policy / Datenschutz ]

Board Security

Copyright © EGOSOFT 1989-2018
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Template created by Avatar & BurnIt!
Debug: page generation = 0.14158 seconds, sql queries = 29