you forgot to factor in the fact that a dolphin has been blown to s**t by cack m3s about 6 times in a 1000 mile journeyI really don't know why people use mantas so much for cargo transport. I did some calculations and the manta may be faster in the short run but in the long run it is slower then both the Dolphin and the Vulture. I assumed that the speeds were miles/hour (I'm pretty sure there not but it still works) and that they took a 1000 mile journey. In 100 hours the Manta could take 21000 units, the Dolphin could take 30000, the Vulture could take 24000, but the Mercury could only take 19500; the Toucan could take 16200, and the Express could take 15,750.
ATTENTION! : TP Class
Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum
So, the question really boils down to this:?
Whatever changes made, is it still sane / comfortable to continue your 1.3 save game after 1.4 patch applied (presumed that TP class would been altered)?
Personally I could live with ripping of XL ware class from TP's, hence it would basicly require me to change Mantas doing ore/silicon runs (either loopped or not) to some split Caiman (fastest TS class, if excluding captured pirate TS which I also use a lot to do loopped ore/silicon runs or even buying from NPC factories). It wouldn't require changing S,M,L sale tasks at all.
If there would be cargo space alterration to significantly lower for all TP classes, it would make my current game pain to patch (I have about 300-400 TP alone), hence I wouldn't apply it.
I have some desire that TS class could be slightly upgraded speed wise.
Current cargo holds are all good for me.
The most worrying part is to see NPC trade being seriously nerfed due
to that practically speaking all NPC TS class ships aren't engine upgraded top/near to top, while it should be the first AI priority to upgrade with, hence it's relatively inexpensive upgrade. Maybe something to adjust there. As few allready wrote, TS going 60 while it's capable for going 120-130 makes it darn slow.
Whatever changes made, is it still sane / comfortable to continue your 1.3 save game after 1.4 patch applied (presumed that TP class would been altered)?
Personally I could live with ripping of XL ware class from TP's, hence it would basicly require me to change Mantas doing ore/silicon runs (either loopped or not) to some split Caiman (fastest TS class, if excluding captured pirate TS which I also use a lot to do loopped ore/silicon runs or even buying from NPC factories). It wouldn't require changing S,M,L sale tasks at all.
If there would be cargo space alterration to significantly lower for all TP classes, it would make my current game pain to patch (I have about 300-400 TP alone), hence I wouldn't apply it.
I have some desire that TS class could be slightly upgraded speed wise.
Current cargo holds are all good for me.
The most worrying part is to see NPC trade being seriously nerfed due
to that practically speaking all NPC TS class ships aren't engine upgraded top/near to top, while it should be the first AI priority to upgrade with, hence it's relatively inexpensive upgrade. Maybe something to adjust there. As few allready wrote, TS going 60 while it's capable for going 120-130 makes it darn slow.
How about this?
Leave TP totally alone.
Adjust TS in the following way:
1x125 sheild.
more cargo carrying capacity, up to 4000.
Better weapons, the Pirate TP has a foward firing BHPT, why can't it have one in the turret? Would make capturing and BBS missions more challanging as well.
Where as the TP can rely on speed to survive, the TS will be more durable, its slow speed being offset by superior cargo carring capability.
Leave TP totally alone.
Adjust TS in the following way:
1x125 sheild.
more cargo carrying capacity, up to 4000.
Better weapons, the Pirate TP has a foward firing BHPT, why can't it have one in the turret? Would make capturing and BBS missions more challanging as well.
Where as the TP can rely on speed to survive, the TS will be more durable, its slow speed being offset by superior cargo carring capability.
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Charlie Whiskey
- Posts: 1728
- Joined: Thu, 11. Mar 04, 10:37
The real issue here seems to be how can egosoft encourage more players to make use of the TS class of ship. IMO it is unrealistic to expect players who have many TP ships to install a patch which will render their fleet of cargo carrying ships useless. Therefore by dulling down the TP ships in its next patch egosoft would be alienating a large number of dedicated players.
The solution would be to improve TS ships and make them a better alternative to TPs. There have been many great suggestions in this thread on how to do this including;
1x125mw shield
increase speed
AI fix. When an armed TS is attacked it continues at maximum speed toward its destination instead of trying to fight. The turret will try to fend off the attackers.
The solution would be to improve TS ships and make them a better alternative to TPs. There have been many great suggestions in this thread on how to do this including;
1x125mw shield
increase speed
AI fix. When an armed TS is attacked it continues at maximum speed toward its destination instead of trying to fight. The turret will try to fend off the attackers.
Put a TP-nerf into a patch, and that patch won't get installed on my system until I finally think about starting a new game.
My opinion is the TP should be left alone - it's too established as a tool. It's the TS that needs work to make it attractive. A boost in speed and a reduction in cost should help.
It also appears the majority of voters agree with me.
My opinion is the TP should be left alone - it's too established as a tool. It's the TS that needs work to make it attractive. A boost in speed and a reduction in cost should help.
It also appears the majority of voters agree with me.
For me, I have roughly 200 TPs (Mantas, Iguanas and Hermes, but the majority are Mantas, 160 of them for 80 factories).
I am OK with changing the Manta to only carry L class and lower, as that would cause me to replace about 20 ships, and I can live with that.
What I have problem with is reducing the Manta cargo to 300-600 as was suggested, as that would force me to replace the fleet of 140 Mantas since they would then become useless. (140 not counting the 20 that need to be replaced to carry XL loads)
LEAVE THE TPS ALONE, ITS THE TS CLASS THAT NEED FIXING!!!!!
EDIT:
(A compromise that I think is acceptable, is to leave the existing TPs as is, but new TPs bought from shipyards need to be upgraded to have the specs of the old TPs, i.e. it would cost a lot to bring the cargo hold of the Manta from 500 to 1000, and the speed to 216 etc...)
I am OK with changing the Manta to only carry L class and lower, as that would cause me to replace about 20 ships, and I can live with that.
What I have problem with is reducing the Manta cargo to 300-600 as was suggested, as that would force me to replace the fleet of 140 Mantas since they would then become useless. (140 not counting the 20 that need to be replaced to carry XL loads)
LEAVE THE TPS ALONE, ITS THE TS CLASS THAT NEED FIXING!!!!!
EDIT:
(A compromise that I think is acceptable, is to leave the existing TPs as is, but new TPs bought from shipyards need to be upgraded to have the specs of the old TPs, i.e. it would cost a lot to bring the cargo hold of the Manta from 500 to 1000, and the speed to 216 etc...)
Not sure if this has been mentioned in the 10 previous pages...
What should the relative costs of a TP and TS be???
Currently, a maxed Manta is about 200k but a maxed Dolphin is 960k.
If just maxing the speeds, it's around 200k to 200k (guessing on Dolphin) so the Dolphin could carry 50% more than a Manta at half the speed and yet it's the same price...or 3 times the cargo but at 5 times the price.
There are lots of things in this game that will probably never be bought. How many buy Boron SPPs? Apart from perhaps 1 or 2 at the start of the game I'll bet almost none are bought later in the game. They are just not cost effective. Once a player owns his own TL it's no problem to dash off to Split space to but a cheap factory...
I fear that the TP/TS relationship will reverse and then no-one will ever buy TPs...
What should the relative costs of a TP and TS be???
Currently, a maxed Manta is about 200k but a maxed Dolphin is 960k.
If just maxing the speeds, it's around 200k to 200k (guessing on Dolphin) so the Dolphin could carry 50% more than a Manta at half the speed and yet it's the same price...or 3 times the cargo but at 5 times the price.
There are lots of things in this game that will probably never be bought. How many buy Boron SPPs? Apart from perhaps 1 or 2 at the start of the game I'll bet almost none are bought later in the game. They are just not cost effective. Once a player owns his own TL it's no problem to dash off to Split space to but a cheap factory...
I fear that the TP/TS relationship will reverse and then no-one will ever buy TPs...
So let's see.
37 people said that nerfing a TP is a good idea.
Well over a hundred said that they need to be left alone, and that the TS should be fixed instead. There are several answers which don't equivocally state either way who or what they mean.
And yet, on the advice of a few mods who find it "unrealistic" that TPs can carry all cargo, the TP is losing its XL cargo class.
I guess "listening to your players" just doesn't mean the same thing it used to anymore.
Creston
37 people said that nerfing a TP is a good idea.
Well over a hundred said that they need to be left alone, and that the TS should be fixed instead. There are several answers which don't equivocally state either way who or what they mean.
And yet, on the advice of a few mods who find it "unrealistic" that TPs can carry all cargo, the TP is losing its XL cargo class.
I guess "listening to your players" just doesn't mean the same thing it used to anymore.
Creston
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twilight_echoes
- Posts: 1770
- Joined: Wed, 14. Jan 04, 14:16