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ubuntufreakdragon



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PostPosted: Tue, 13. Jun 17, 15:49    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

PAC is more than enough for any freighter including TMs, other weapons are to rare costly and energy requiring.


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Imgran





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PostPosted: Tue, 13. Jun 17, 16:06    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Monkspeed wrote:
Honved wrote:
With a Perseus, scanning that Pirate base should have been a cakewalk. Run away, until they're strung out in a long line, then engage one-on-one.
Yep, that's what I did in the end! Very Happy

No TM yet but I'm sold on the idea for sure! Probably going to buy a Zephyrus, what weapons are best for it?

So the pirates are back but in another sector harassing my trader in Teladi Gain, Ceo's Buckzoid, Profit Share and surrounding areas? My trader is level 11 so he drops a load of drones and docks to the nearest station but they just wait outside...

I have no idea why they've started singling out my traders? I'm guessing because my fighter rank is high (veteran 1%) or I pissed them off when I did the Terran plot and killed them off and scanned the base? So, at the moment two of my best traders are docked and the other two are most of the time on standby because of their low rank (4, and 2) so my profitssss have taken a hit Sad

You reap what you sow I guess. The game maybe thinks I know what I'm doing and presumes I have fighter escorts for every trader?

On the plus side, I'm seeing more damaged ships for sale near gates and grab them when I think it's a good deal. And, my since my miner was left unmolested this time he filled the cargo (7000 units) with ore.


1: For the Zephyrus -- I recommend particle accelerator cannons due to its small laser capacitor. In the turrets I pair one PAC and one Mass Driver, that works pretty well against enemy fighters and allows me to use the main guns without fearing that I'm leaving the turrets dry. Once I get access to mass driver ammunition on more than an ad hoc basis I often go full mass driver on my turrets and mount something a bit more expensive in the main guns but with a TM that's pretty optional.

2: All fighter escorts for your trader mean is that you'll be losing fighters if anything heavy comes along. Fighters are FAR more expensive than freighters for the most part. Even the Solano, one of the most cost effective fighters in the game, is still like twice as expensive as a system trader.

Until you have the resources to field multiple m7 frigates, your best response to enemy threats is to have your traders pop their drones and GTFO and deal with any pirate incursions yourself.

3: Are you setting your traders to emergency jump? It's an option in the command menu. You really should ensure your freighters have jump drive and can simply be somewhere else when danger looms. That way you still know where the pirates are but don't have skin in the game. I'd still clear the pirates out of there manually if possible because you want to have that sector open to your freighters, but if your freighters respond to problems in the sector by not being in that sector, that works better than docking up and frees you up to ignore the problem if something more profitable/interesting is occupying your attention.

If you use U-traders your traders will go out of their way to acquire a jump drive and a supply of energy cells, then you can proactively set their command orders so they'll decide to be somewhere else when the pirates come a-knocking. It's part of my necessary prep to make my u-traders properly set-and-forget.


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Imgran





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PostPosted: Tue, 13. Jun 17, 16:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

ubuntufreakdragon wrote:
PAC is more than enough for any freighter including TMs, other weapons are to rare costly and energy requiring.


If you can afford it though, the increased projectile velocity of the Phased Repeater Gun makes it very useful in turrets. It depends on the TM and whether you have the firepower to keep the combat short.

By the by -- given the location you've revealed yourself to be in, Monkspeed, I assume you're working through the OTAS corporate missions. Some very lovely rewards down that mission chain. Including my all-time favorite fighter (at least in TC)


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PostPosted: Tue, 13. Jun 17, 17:38    Post subject: Pirate relations Reply with quote Print

I hate to say it, Monkspeed. It looks like you're experiencing the consequences of killing too many pirates. That puts your pirate rating very high. Then they respond by attacking you or your traders on sight everywhere in the TC universe. If you want to save this game you need to find a number of pirate missions and do them. And you might not get good ones because of your bad pirate rating. Every pirate base has its own group of ships. They sent them out on mission. With a bad pirate rating most missions will start as red. It'll take time to clear each of them even when you have a good rating. And killing them to get rid of them will make the situation worse. But each mission has a route and will eventually end. And the next mission spawned might be blue and you're safe from an attack from that mission, if you've earned a good pirate rating.


One of the easiest ways to earn rep in the early game is taking Defend Station missions. The opponent is generally pirates or Yaki. You gain rep and fight experience. But you get bad rep with the pirates. You see the consequences now. I'll take those missions if there's defending fighters in a sector, fighters of the sector owner. If you accept the mission, those fighters will kill the opponents for you. They even do it if you leave the sector. You complete the mission but don't lose pirate rep.

You've learned a lot, Monkspeed. You'll put it to good use in your next game.


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Honved





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PostPosted: Tue, 13. Jun 17, 18:11    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Your TS with the unwanted "follower" probably needs to be bailed out by something with big guns or missiles. If the pirate is in an M3, you can probably kill it with the Perseus, otherwise if it's an M6 or bigger, you either have to wait until the sector race's security forces show up to deal with the Pirate, or else use bigger missiles than Wasps. Meanwhile, the trader can sit there docked and will be reasonably safe, although it's an investment that's not returning any profit at the moment.

It can be handy to hang onto one M8 bomber later if you manage to bail one in a fight, because they can spam Tomahawk heavy torpedo "salvos" that are a serious threat to even the largest capital ships and stations. One M8 with enough torpedoes can clear a sector of any hostiles, but it may not be cheap to replace that much ammo. At that price, it may be cheaper to buy a Diemos and a full set of shields for it, and just ram the targets.

Wasps are perfect against most M5s and less well shielded M4s, but too weak to really do much to an M3 or M6. There are a couple of unguided "multiple warhead" missiles that rapid-fire like guns, delivering REALLY serious damage if you can hit with enough of the individual warheads. Against an M6 or other large target at close range, that's not too difficult. Single heavy warheads are far too likely to be shot down unless you first spam a few Wasps to distract their defensive turrets. You can also use a couple of Fighter Drones to provide the distraction, then hit the target with a Hornet or other heavy missile.

The problem with Pirates isn't fight rank, it's Pirate reputation. Once you've taken on a few Pirates, the others will increasingly go out of their way to kill you and your stuff. It often pays not to pick on them too heavily, unless you WANT the intense combat-heavy gameplay and corresponding increased salvage and bails. I've played it both ways, and either is viable, but there's no advantage in being on only "semi-bad" terms. No matter how good your reputation is with the Pirates, there will always be a FEW hostile ones that spawn at random.

The Yaki in particular can be very useful to maintain as non-enemies, or even as friends, since for some unfathomable reason they seem to have the only Incendiary Bomb Launcher factories in the game, which are the main weapons used on most M7 Frigates. Their sectors are also good for placing your own contraband factories and other "illicit" activities, where they'll actively defend their sectors against anything that might show up to take out your assets (like stolen ships from "Return" missions), so you don't take a Reputation hit for killing them yourself.

Also be aware that some of the weapons that are overpowered while you're in the same sector (In Sector = IS) are seriously deficient while you're Out of Sector (OOS). The Plasma Burst Generator (flamethrower) normally hits multiple locations simultaneously, doing massive damage even to large ships In Sector, but only does one hit OOS, and therefor isn't particularly effective. The Phase Repeater Gun, which has a high rate of fire and fast bullet speed, only fires once per "round" of combat while OOS, the same as any other weapon, so the lower individual bullet damage makes it nearly useless. Energy consumption isn't calculated, and ammo-base weapons burn through a full ton of ammo in a couple of rounds. Slow-firing big guns like the High Energy Plasma Thrower (HEPT) or Concussion Impulse Generator (CIG) become the preferential weapons for arming your station defenders while you're away, since the chance to hit is totally random, rather than based on the speed of the projectile. Also, why NOT mount all 8 (or whatever fits) forward guns and pack every turret to the max when weapon recharge isn't calculated, and all turrets can fire in a 360 degree arc?

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Monkspeed





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PostPosted: Wed, 14. Jun 17, 11:34    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Honved wrote:
3: Are you setting your traders to emergency jump? It's an option in the command menu. You really should ensure your freighters have jump drive and can simply be somewhere else when danger looms. That way you still know where the pirates are but don't have skin in the game. I'd still clear the pirates out of there manually if possible because you want to have that sector open to your freighters, but if your freighters respond to problems in the sector by not being in that sector, that works better than docking up and frees you up to ignore the problem if something more profitable/interesting is occupying your attention.

I didn't know there is that setting, I'll definitely use it now. Thanks.

Bill Huntington wrote:
One of the easiest ways to earn rep in the early game is taking Defend Station missions. The opponent is generally pirates or Yaki. You gain rep and fight experience. But you get bad rep with the pirates. You see the consequences now. I'll take those missions if there's defending fighters in a sector, fighters of the sector owner. If you accept the mission, those fighters will kill the opponents for you. They even do it if you leave the sector. You complete the mission but don't lose pirate rep.

I think you're right, that's what's happened. I did quite a few "defend station" missions and paying the price now.

Honved wrote:
The problem with Pirates isn't fight rank, it's Pirate reputation. Once you've taken on a few Pirates, the others will increasingly go out of their way to kill you and your stuff. It often pays not to pick on them too heavily, unless you WANT the intense combat-heavy gameplay and corresponding increased salvage and bails. I've played it both ways, and either is viable, but there's no advantage in being on only "semi-bad" terms. No matter how good your reputation is with the Pirates, there will always be a FEW hostile ones that spawn at random.

Yes, I think my rep took a hit after a did quite a few "defend station" missions.

Imgran wrote:
By the by -- given the location you've revealed yourself to be in, Monkspeed, I assume you're working through the OTAS corporate missions. Some very lovely rewards down that mission chain. Including my all-time favorite fighter (at least in TC)

No but now you mentioned it, I'll do some! Smile

----

Yesterday, after a few attacks in the morning and a few reloads, I was relatively unmolested for the rest of the day. There were a few spawns in the sector where my Perseus was but fortunately, there was a massive police presence and they got vaporised before they even got near me. They were mostly M3, M4, M5, and haven't seen that big ship since the other day.

I ordered 3 of my freighters back to Terracorp HQ and purchased jump drives for them, the two high-level traders now are using them automatically which is great! The low-level trader isn't using it yet but hopefully, he will level up now if left unmolested. My last trader is near Heretics End so haven't been able to get a jump drive for him yet but I'll sort something out.

EDIT: Oh I checked friendly/foe settings and everything is on friendly apart from Xenon and Kha'ak.

Also, do you guys advise me to remove all weapons from the freighters and just arm them with drones?

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PostPosted: Wed, 14. Jun 17, 12:14    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Monkspeed wrote:
Imgran wrote:
By the by -- given the location you've revealed yourself to be in, Monkspeed, I assume you're working through the OTAS corporate missions. Some very lovely rewards down that mission chain. Including my all-time favorite fighter (at least in TC)

No but now you mentioned it, I'll do some! Smile

OTAS ships are some of the finest in the game, but not all are available for purchase right off - to gain access to some (and to get some of them awarded to you for free!) that OTAS mission sequence is great. However, although I deplore taking shortcuts or the like, I am now going to recommend one that is often vital, because it impacts your OTAS "plot" start, and so failing it can be quite serious. The first mission is to escort a convoy to the OTAS HQ. The problem is, the way the mission is structured, what often happens (especially once you've gained some fight rank, as the mission's difficulty ramps up with your fight rank) is that attacking ships will spawn when the convoy is about to go through a gate - the convoy freighters get scared and instead of putting foot and gapping it through the gate, they go into a (panicked) sort of "evasion mode", which actually ends up getting them killed. Now, no matter how good you are, it is possible for the situation to get so bad that you never get through the gate - attackers arrive, your convoys starts milling around like sheep, you deal with the pirates, the convoy starts back toward the gate, more attackers arrive - and the process repeats ad nauseam. Gradually, your convoy will take damage and the ships will be destroyed.

But fear not - there IS a way around this (even if it's technically rather "cheaty" - I think it's justified given the constantly moving impossible goal-posts.) First, make a fresh game save. Then take the mission, and JUMP as far as you can - the object is to NOT ENCOUNTER the convoy you are meant to defend - as soon as you do, the attack waves will start. So long as you and the convoy aren't ever in the same sector, it will keep moving toward its destination without being attacked. Yes, it's unfortunate having to do this, as theoretically a convoy-defense mission could be good fun, but as described above, it can become impossible, and then you screw yourself over (I'm not sure about this, but failing the first mission of a corporate sequence could be very dire - at the very least you will lose standing with that corp and make your life a lot harder - at worst, it may be possible to render that sequence inaccessible, though I'm not sure.)

Monkspeed wrote:
I ordered 3 of my freighters back to Terracorp HQ and purchased jump drives for them, the two high-level traders now are using them automatically which is great! The low-level trader isn't using it yet but hopefully, he will level up now if left unmolested. My last trader is near Heretics End so haven't been able to get a jump drive for him yet but I'll sort something out.

Good Smile Now, remember that the jumpdrive consumes energy cells, so you need to make sure those freighters refuel (for starters, make sure you have enabled automatic purchasing of jump fuel in their command consoles, right by the auto-jump setting - you've likely already done so.) As for your freighter by Heretic's End, here is one possible approach to equip it: Get a TM (yes! This time this IS a sales pitch Razz ), and fit it with a jumpdrive. Also fit a jumpdrive to your Perseus, and park it (the Perseus, that is) in your TM. Fly over to your jumpdriveless freighter, and shuffle your jumpdrives around - you have two, so get one over to the freighter, and make sure your TM ends up with one (and then, go back and replace the one for your Perseus - even if you don't often jump in the fighter itself, as you can see, it can be very useful to keep a spare JD in storage in this manner.)


Monkspeed wrote:
Also, do you guys advise me to remove all weapons from the freighters and just arm them with drones?

There are different schools of thought on this matter. Some will recommend that on the grounds that the more pacifistic your freighters, the less likely they are to get into trouble. I don't really agree with that - I prefer to keep a PAC on each freighter (or even more, in the case of the bigger and/or better armed ones, such as the OTAS Mistral range.) My reasoning is as follows: freighters are not fighters, they will not seek out enemies and hunt them down, no matter how many guns you stick on them. Also, if you are running automated trade scripts such as CAG, CLS, or ST/UT (Trade Command Software Mk.3), then the pilots are even more intelligent and focused on acting as merchantmen. Having the turret means that a freighter can fend off and even kill an M5, discourage or potentially even kill an M4 (not hugely likely, but possible), and at the very least stall an M3 (in-sector, if the turret lands a few good shots on the M3, it may veer off to be more evasive, and in doing so will do less damage to your freighter, potentially buying you more time to extricate it.) Also (again only in-sector, as far as I'm aware) the turret will be able to shoot down some incoming missiles (if you equip the freighter with FCS1 and 2, and set its turret to "Missile Defense"). The only time you might have a problem is if you set the turret of a freighter to "Attack enemies", and it happens to fly near an "enemy" but not actually hostile ship, in which case your freighter would be starting a fight - but this is not only easily avoided, it should never happen in the first place, as turrets should be set correctly.

As for drones, this is a bit more complicated, but also a lot simpler Razz For starters, if your freighters aren't running any scripted command software, drones are useless unless you manually have them launch (you can do this remotely) every time you respond to a notification - which is usually too late. However, I know that CAG and CLS scripted pilots are pretty good (for the most part!) with their use of drones to distract attackers while they get clear. I think that the UT (TCS Mark.3) also does something similar, but I forget. Basically, if the scripted pilot is of high enough level, it can use drones to good effect - and can also supply itself, so long as you haven't barred it from doing so.

Happy hunting! Smile


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Triaxx2





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PostPosted: Wed, 14. Jun 17, 12:33    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

No, but set the turrets to Missile Defense, so if they get attacked in sector, they'll attempt to defend themselves from missiles, which drones offer no protection against.


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PostPosted: Wed, 14. Jun 17, 12:57    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I just bought a Zep, I'm so hyped up!

Gonna kit it out now and go kick some ass.

The pirates spawned on my miner again, 4 of them but he took them all out with his fragmentation bomb launchers! Can you believe it? One was a pirate elite as well! I was so sure he was minced meat.

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Wed, 14. Jun 17, 13:18    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Monkspeed wrote:
I just bought a Zep, I'm so hyped up!

Gonna kit it out now and go kick some ass.

Nice Smile Enjoy

Monkspeed wrote:
The pirates spawned on my miner again, 4 of them but he took them all out with his fragmentation bomb launchers! Can you believe it? One was a pirate elite as well! I was so sure he was minced meat.

Well, the PIrate Elite is a very underwhelming ship, despite the implication of the word "elite" in its name ^^ In fact, the word there is the ship-model name, nothing more, and not an adjective reflecting some veterancy level of the pirate Smile Still, a TS fending off 4 pirate ships is not bad at all!
FBLs are quite good OoS, but really very weak in-sector - just keep that in mind. Wink


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Monkspeed





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PostPosted: Wed, 14. Jun 17, 13:26    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

So should i buy PAC for all weapon bays and turrets?

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PostPosted: Wed, 14. Jun 17, 14:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:
Monkspeed wrote:
Also, do you guys advise me to remove all weapons from the freighters and just arm them with drones?

There are different schools of thought on this matter.

Indeed.

Ships run scripts. Scripts define what the ships do. Disclaimer: I have seen the X3R scripts, but not much of the later games. Based on what I saw:
  • A ship that does not have any "lasers" installed, will not run any attack routine (even if it were loaded with missiles). A very blunt IF no guns THEN quit check at the start.
  • TS or TP class ship will launch Drones, if it has any, when sustaining damage
  • Ships able to attack will attack their damager
  • Use of jumpdrive to travel or escape damagers were only in Trade Mk3 and CLS/CAG scripts (and only they had a refuel subroutine). X3TC did add jump/refuel to most ship routines.
  • Only Trade Mk3 and CLS/CAG scripts had "buy more drones / mosquitos" routine. X3TC (or AP?) did add a "restock ammo" subroutine to ships.
  • Up to X3R fighters that (1) had installed guns, (2) were homebased to Carrier/Station and (3) were docked at their homebase, would launch and attack when something did assault their homebase.
  • X3TC did add the TM and M7C classes and clearly did change "escort ship routines". The fighters now undock and dock from their "carrier/leader" as part of their "Protect/follow (formation leader)" routine.

It is quite plausible that the routines in X3TC differ from previous also in respect to the "What shall I do if I'm hit?" behaviour. At least the CLS/CAG do override the default response with their own, for those scripts originate from time when the default was clearly insufficient.

I do prefer the school of Know thyself and know thine enemy that does read the source to know oneself exactly. Luckily, I'm usually too lazy to read.


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Honved





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PostPosted: Wed, 14. Jun 17, 16:23    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Weapons on freighters are a mixed bag. On the one hand, it can allow them to shoot down incoming missiles, or fend off the occasional M5 pest. On the other hand, it can result in them standing their ground and slugging it out with an M6 Corvette, instead of running away screaming like a little girl as they should. If they encounter a Xenon Q, it doesn't matter either way, because the Q will vaporize them in one round of fire, often not even allowing time for an "under attack" message, nuch less a jump to safety or the deployment of drones.

I sometimes tack on a spare IRE or PAC if I have one handy, and then need to install Fight 2 software to allow the Missile Defense command, but weapons on freighters are not something I go out of my way to supply.

The default settings for Mk. 3 Traders are to allow the use of drones and jump drives after some level, and I don't change those settings. Note that even if you blacklist certain Pirate and Xenon sectors so the trader doesn't trade there, he may still take a shortcut through those sectors to replenish E-Cells or reach some sector with a lucrative deal on the other side. In some cases, it can actually pay NOT to allow their use, and tie the trader to a (relatively) safe area of operations.

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PostPosted: Wed, 14. Jun 17, 17:02    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The Zeph has been my best buy so far, without a doubt, thanks to all of you.

I've now been able to stock all my ships with a jump drive, energy cells, shields, and whatever else they needed.

The jumpdrive is totally brilliant and has opened up the game to a whole new level for me.

Although, for some reason, my trader in Terran space (Saturn) is not utilising his JD?

Also, funny story, one of my traders jumped into Circle Of Labour where there was some huge Kha'ak invasion going on and he was right in the middle of it. I managed to issue "jump to sector" in time without sustaining any damage but got my hole twitching for a moment there Very Happy

I am now glad to report, profitssss are on the increase.

Also, I figured out why the 25mj shield is so hard to buy in Cloudbase SE and surrounding areas, it seems to be a problem with the Quantum Tube manufacturing plants and their supply chains (especially ore). The QTs are more expensive to buy than to sell so consequently, no traders are supplying the medium shield complex the QTs they need. I felt sorry for the local economy so I supplied them at a loss because that's how I roll Very Happy

Loving it! Very Happy

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PostPosted: Wed, 14. Jun 17, 19:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

1. Tubes are a secondary resource, are they not?
http://www.egosoft.com/support/faq/faq_answer_en.php?answer=936&version=9

2. Can you jump to Saturn? I bet not; no Gate or Beacon for the JD to lock on. Your trader has same issue.


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