Kim Jong-nam

[Bishop149]

Is there any kind of antidote that the assassin could have taken beforehand?

Also . . how irreversible is the bind? By which I mean, with tetrodotoxin, you can keep the victim alive by putting them on life-support for long enough to metabolise the poison (24 hours or so, if memory serves). I'm guessing these toxins aren't survivable in similar ways?

For a nerve agent not really.
The usual treatment is Atropine delivered very shortly after exposure with an Epipen like device. Atropine works by binding to the same receptors as the nerve agent with higher affinity but the binding is reversible. This means the effects of Atropine are pretty horrible too but unlike the nerve agent they wear off. We actually used to have issues in my former job where a soldier would smell something funny (nerve agents are oderless) and get a little trigger happy with the Atropine. . . . the effect of taking it when not needed certainly render you in no fit state to attack anyone!

[philip_hughes]

From what i read about the toxin, it seemed to do some pretty serious damage to the sodium channels. Definitely not an expert but i would not be surprised if the nerves were out of commission for months if not permenantly.

[mrbadger]

Is anyone definitely sure he was assassinated?

Assassination is notoriously hard to pull off and get away with these days, so much so that most major powers with any grasp of current realities simply won't bother with it.

There are lots of ways apparently healthy people can just drop dead, I've seen it happen myself.

My final day working as a nurse was marked by such an event. In my case it was one event too many, so I handed over the drug trolley keys and literally walked off the ward without looking back.

I do somethings think it's a too sheltered view of the world that causes people to think that when something bad suddenly happens like this there must be a bad cause, someone to blame.

Sometimes there isn't a cause, it can just happen.

[philip_hughes]

Is anyone definitely sure he was assassinated?

Assassination is notoriously hard to pull off and get away with these days, so much so that most major powers with any grasp of current realities simply won't bother with it.

There are lots of ways apparently healthy people can just drop dead, I've seen it happen myself.

My final day working as a nurse was marked by such an event. In my case it was one event too many, so I handed over the drug trolley keys and literally walked off the ward without looking back.

I do somethings think it's a too sheltered view of the world that causes people to think that when something bad suddenly happens like this there must be a bad cause, someone to blame.

Sometimes there isn't a cause, it can just happen.

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[mrbadger]

My vote would be no, he wasn't, but I suppose it's better to be seen to be cautious first.

[Nanook]

[Conspiracy theory hat firmly in place]
What if ..... he isn't really dead. What if it's an elaborate plot to make his evil half brother think he's dead in order to keep any hit squads from coming after him. His body hasn't been released yet, presumably because no one has claimed it. And unclaimed bodies probably get cremated. End of story. Hmmmm.

[philip_hughes]

[Conspiracy theory hat firmly in place]
What if ..... he isn't really dead. What if it's an elaborate plot to make his evil half brother think he's dead in order to keep any hit squads from coming after him. His body hasn't been released yet, presumably because no one has claimed it. And unclaimed bodies probably get cremated. End of story. Hmmmm.

Yep. He also shot JFK from a plane, spewing chemtrails as he flew into the world trade centre

[Morkonan]

Yep. He also shot JFK from a plane, spewing chemtrails as he flew into the world trade centre

I KNEW IT!

And, they said I was crazy! One little chemtrail and everyone loses their minds!



At least, now, he'll get to go to Disneyland.

[Mightysword]

Is anyone definitely sure he was assassinated?

Assassination is notoriously hard to pull off and get away with these days, so much so that most major powers with any grasp of current realities simply won't bother with it.

Only if that major power care. It depends on several factors:

- Does it feel like it will give those who wanted to attack it anyway a reason to start. Say like Saddam, he knew half of the world probably want a piece of his country already, better not giving anyone an excuse.

- Does it try to maintain a good boy image: say like the US and most European, because we're afraid of diplomatic consequence and such. The US never could completely live down its attempt on Castro for example, but that only because it cares enough about not repeat that shenanigan.


Neither of this apply to North Korean.

- There is nothing to gain for anyone to get involved with it, a cesshole with little resource with a large indoctrinated-malnourished nation. Aside from the usual saber-rattleing, if nobody does anything when they testing nuke or fly missile, or even sinking a South Korean ship, nobody gonna care if they assassinated one of their own. It may make a sensible headline because of that 007 sensation, but think about it objectively, it's rather insignificant.

- Its image can't get any worse, and there is little more you can punish it saved for outright military action, which like I said nobody want. So you're either like NK when you think it can't get any worse. It could also be when you're too damn big you don't give a crap about what other think about you anyway, and the consequence facing you is much smaller than the consequence of those who want to face you. Say like Russia, did you forget the assassination of Alexander Valterovich Litvinenko?

You think this way because you're using the standard of where you live, but from other part of the world, you'll be suprise how "not" rare something like this is, in fact my generation already witness 3 counting just my own country doing alone, and I'm not even half way through life yet. This is simply a high profile case because everyone know fat Kim, but where I came from I would almost pass this as "politic as usual".

[philip_hughes]

Is anyone definitely sure he was assassinated?

Assassination is notoriously hard to pull off and get away with these days, so much so that most major powers with any grasp of current realities simply won't bother with it.

Only if that major power care. It depends on several factors:

- Does it feel like it will give those who wanted to attack it anyway a reason to start. Say like Saddam, he knew half of the world probably want a piece of his country already, better not giving anyone an excuse.

- Does it try to maintain a good boy image: say like the US and most European, because we're afraid of diplomatic consequence and such. The US never could completely live down its attempt on Castro for example, but that only because it cares enough about not repeat that shenanigan.


Neither of this apply to North Korean.

- There is nothing to gain for anyone to get involved with it, a cesshole with little resource with a large indoctrinated-malnourished nation. Aside from the usual saber-rattleing, if nobody does anything when they testing nuke or fly missile, or even sinking a South Korean ship, nobody gonna care if they assassinated one of their own. It may make a sensible headline because of that 007 sensation, but think about it objectively, it's rather insignificant.

- Its image can't get any worse, and there is little more you can punish it saved for outright military action, which like I said nobody want. So you're either like NK when you think it can't get any worse. It could also be when you're too damn big you don't give a crap about what other think about you anyway, and the consequence facing you is much smaller than the consequence of those who want to face you. Say like Russia, did you forget the assassination of Alexander Valterovich Litvinenko?

You think this way because you're using the standard of where you live, but from other part of the world, you'll be suprise how "not" rare something like this is, in fact my generation already witness 3 counting just my own country doing alone, and I'm not even half way through life yet. This is simply a high profile case because everyone know fat Kim, but where I came from I would almost pass this as "politic as usual".

It was said that life was cheap in Ankh-Morpork. This was, of course, completely wrong. Life was often very expensive, you could get death for free.

[korio]

To make things even more strange, seems like someone tried to steal the body from the hospital morgue.

[Morkonan]

I've seen a lot of blurbs on this and I'm not sure how much is "fact" and how much is... something else.

For instance, I read that the women's hands were coated with a toxic substance and that was the delivery method.

I've also read that they had practiced this ambush multiple times in shopping malls and there's evidence for that claim.

I think this is something that is going to remain indecipherable until we get some official statements that included detailed evidence and fact-based opinion.

[philip_hughes]

We are speculationing about it, that's all.

[Morkonan]

And, we have a winner!

VX nerve agent used to kill Kim Jong Nam, police say

Speculation is cool. It's as close to inspiration as one can get. It's just that some media outlets I came across kept speculatin' and posting it up as "news." That sort of made things a bit difficult. For instance, I don't think those two women coated their hands in VX. Barrier Cream isn't that effective a protection...

[philip_hughes]

I have to wonder why they think its odourless and tasteless- seeing there would not be that many people around with first hand experience.

The best you could get is: "Tastes like AAAAAARGH!"

[Morkonan]

I have to wonder why they think its odourless and tasteless- seeing there would not be that many people around with first hand experience.

The best you could get is: "Tastes like AAAAAARGH!"

Oh, I'm so cruel... The first thing that came to mind, and what my reply would like be if I could get one out:

"Mork! What does it taste like?"

"Your mom."

Worth dying for? Maybe... ultimate "Mom Joke Win."

[theeclownbroze]

Tetrodotoxin: The substance produced by stonefish, blue-ringed octopuses and that "poison thing that lives in a shell that spikes you when you pick it up . . ."

Come to Australia - you might accidentally get killed.

I almost stepped on one on my trip to the Philippines.

[mrbadger]

Assassination is notoriously hard to pull off and get away with these days, so much so that most major powers with any grasp of current realities simply won't bother with it.

Quoting myself, how meta...

Seems I was on point though. It wasn't a regime with any grasp on current realities, it was North Korea...

Using an internationally treaty banned weapon of mass destruction (VX nerve agent) in an airport terminal...

Do they want to get put down?

[Usenko]

Assassination is notoriously hard to pull off and get away with these days, so much so that most major powers with any grasp of current realities simply won't bother with it.

Quoting myself, how meta...

Seems I was on point though. It wasn't a regime with any grasp on current realities, it was North Korea...

Using an internationally treaty banned weapon of mass destruction (VX nerve agent) in an airport terminal...

Do they want to get put down?

I was going to point out that you'd excepted North Korea with your first statement.

Look, NK has been BEGGING to get put down for years. It's utterly embarrassing to those countries which remain nominally allies, and infuriating to those who are not allied. It shows that the world has far more patience and forbearance than we often think that NK has not actually been nuked already . . .

[Sorkvild]

Probably a nerve agent of some sort, super fast absorption through mucous membranes.

an internationally-banned chemical weapon that can kill within minutes, according to a preliminary report by the Chemistry Department of Malaysia.

How it works
VX inhibits the operation of an enzyme that helps the body's nervous system function, causing paralysis and suffocation.
"VX is probably the state-of-the-art nerve agent," CNN military analyst Rick Francona said. "It is probably the most lethal of all the nerve agents ever designed."
Symptoms can appear after a few seconds, and even small doses -- as little as 10 mg on the skin -- can affect people. Larger exposure can lead to convulsions, paralysis and deadly respiratory failure.
VX is most dangerous when inhaled, rather than absorbed through the skin, according to Nial Wheate, a chemical weapons health expert at the University of Sydney.
"It's not (meant as) a skin agent. It's a thing that you aerosol through the air," he said.

So I was right. Nerve agent VX used to murder Kim Jong Nam

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/23/asia/ ... rve-agent/

Also local police wants to question more nkorean people including an embassy worker.