Concerning X4

Silla · Post by **Silla** » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 00:04

I hope the next UI is able to use the complete screen ..or at least 80% of it and not just 50% or so...

monster.zero · Post by **monster.zero** » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 16:23

GUI?!!?
Are we sitting in a space ship??
How are we 'seeing' this GUI(popping out the side of my monitor)?

GUI should be Heads Up Displayed.

Could you imagine Star Citizen with a pop up GUI menu?!!? Of course not!! In Star Citizen you are ON the ship! You use your helmet HUD or your wrist band projection or your Cockpit HUD or the various monitors on your ship............You are Not at home watching it on a monitor.

Hopefully X4 will support VR and this becomes a non issue. [/b]

The Q · Post by **The Q** » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 16:57

Err... A Head-up-Display (HUD) is still a Graphical User Interface (GUI).

Nikola515 · Post by **Nikola515** » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 20:52

In my opinion XR UI was focused more on small scale management than a empire building. This would be perfect if XR was limited to hand full of ships and stations. But after we get to empire building it becomes impossible to manage anything....

What I would want to see more use of map UI. Here are some examples:

1) Single or double click on stations would open trade menu and for ship build menu (for shipyard).

2) Selecting trade/combat ship once on map and click to stations would assign it automatically to station. Also when selecting ship and clicking one enemy it will attack enemy ships.

3) Clicking once on ship will only select that ship.

4) Clicking twice will select all ships that are same in that zone.

5) Clicking three times would select all ships in that class.

6) Clicking right mouse button will open station/ship menu.

This is some of things that would be useful later in game... Also I would want to add some other things:

1) Get rid of equip ship weapons & shields. Nobody relly don't buy half equipped ships (at least I don't).

2) Capital ship quota(buying multiple ships at once). This would be useful later in game where we can buy multiple ships without using 1000 clicks and 5 hours to do it.

3) Ships should be equipped with crew automatically.

This would improve later game UI when we have large empires without micromanaging every small thing. I have over 2000 hours on XR and this is one of reasons why I dislike game. It is fun at beginning but later it gets annoying without mods. Also AI is another problem as well.

monster.zero · Post by **monster.zero** » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 21:25

The Q wrote:Err... A Head-up-Display (HUD) is still a Graphical User Interface (GUI).

No..That's an Overlay. a HUD is a projection onto a cockpit window or a helmet visor. Or a holographic projection onto a surface of a in game object.

The MENU pop up(overlay) on the left side of the screen, is unconnected to anything in the game. It's no different then the opening selection screen just a bitmap overlay. In X3 you aren't aboard the ship...you're remotely controlling it's actions and watching it at home on a 2D monitor(hence a 2D menu).

It's like EVE: Online overlay...it's not a HUD...you aren't on the ship. You're just observing through a window.

Overlays and drop down menus are 80's tech...if ES is going old school with X4 and having immersion breaking pop up menus I'll be disappointed. it's the 21st century already.

Post by **Sparky Sparkycorp** » Sat, 1. Apr 17, 22:21

monster.zero wrote:
The Q wrote:Err... A Head-up-Display (HUD) is still a Graphical User Interface (GUI).
No..That's an Overlay. a HUD is a projection onto a cockpit window or a helmet visor. Or a holographic projection onto a surface of a in game object.

The MENU pop up(overlay) on the left side of the screen, is unconnected to anything in the game. It's no different then the opening selection screen just a bitmap overlay.

How do you know that Ren isn't wearing a helmet*, and the menu on the left isn't simply being shown on the left to keep it available without blocking his view?

*Or has an implant that makes him perceive the menu is on the left of his field of vision.

monster.zero wrote: In X3 you aren't aboard the ship...you're remotely controlling it's actions and watching it at home on a 2D monitor(hence a 2D menu).

Who or what is existing the ship for spacewalks? If it's not the player's body, why can't the player take control of any ship or spacesuit inside them remotely?

Meme Turtle · Post by **Meme Turtle** » Sun, 2. Apr 17, 00:04

Stability over Features. Usability over Immersion.

Certain game features(like flying multiple ships) or immersive UI improve user experience. However, these things should not come at the expense of game stability or UI convenience, as game breaking bugs or cumbersome UI will leave many users unhappy and force them to leave lots of negative reviews.

Snafu_X3 · Post by **Snafu_X3** » Sun, 2. Apr 17, 01:11

Just so long as R(off-click, for LH users)MB menus become available I'll be happy: modders can figure out specific UI/menu details if necessary

The above is one of the most 'intuitive' UI things I miss from <X:R

(& yes I had a lot of fun with Freespace, both versions; I really must install it again!)

monster.zero · Post by **monster.zero** » Sun, 2. Apr 17, 16:01

Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:
monster.zero wrote:
The Q wrote:Err... A Head-up-Display (HUD) is still a Graphical User Interface (GUI).
No..That's an Overlay. a HUD is a projection onto a cockpit window or a helmet visor. Or a holographic projection onto a surface of a in game object.

The MENU pop up(overlay) on the left side of the screen, is unconnected to anything in the game. It's no different then the opening selection screen just a bitmap overlay.
How do you know that Ren isn't wearing a helmet*, and the menu on the left isn't simply being shown on the left to keep it available without blocking his view?

*Or has an implant that makes him perceive the menu is on the left of his field of vision.

monster.zero wrote: In X3 you aren't aboard the ship...you're remotely controlling it's actions and watching it at home on a 2D monitor(hence a 2D menu).
Who or what is existing the ship for spacewalks? If it's not the player's body, why can't the player take control of any ship or spacesuit inside them remotely?

Well.....Was really hoping I'd wouldn't have to 'imagine' icons and pop up menu's fed directly into my brain.

If that's the direction they are headed...so be it.

Not sure how they are going to handle UI overlays in Virtual Reality?! Will you have to remove your headset to look at your monitor? Think they could kill two birds with one stone....just make the jump to HUD's.

dfm5000 · Post by **dfm5000** » Mon, 3. Apr 17, 07:06

I hope this new interface that is being worked on for X4 includes these three things.s

1. The ability to command your squad properly this time, i can't believe i have to use one of my wishes on this.

2. A real corporation management system, that means banking hireing and fireing system. A salary system, food management meaning if you don't feed them they leave or die.

3. Making friends and having contacts, that can call you and friends that you can call.

Like someones trying to kill me i need help, or lets raid this warehouse or rob this space bank.

Alandauron · Post by **Alandauron** » Tue, 11. Apr 17, 23:53

linolafett wrote:I got the lovely task of taking care of the UI in X4...

Sweet! Now we know who to blame when we hate everything about it

Honestly I feel for you in your task, making the UI is often one of the most difficult things to do in a game. Even if you please the majority there will always be someone(or a group of someones) that thinks it's terrible and will have all these "amazing" suggestions on how it could have been improved. Good luck my friend!

BigBANGtheory · Post by **BigBANGtheory** » Sun, 16. Apr 17, 22:48

Man of my word, prior to the cheese topping

CommanderTM · Post by **CommanderTM** » Mon, 17. Apr 17, 11:52

Thank you linolafett for letting us know and getting feedback! I also have few ideas that would help a lot with making ship buying and refitting easier.

1. Blueprints. It would be awesome if we could have blueprint dropdown at ship buy screen and refitting screen. If i want to have specific loadout and drone counts on my mining vessel i should not be forced to enter it every time i buy one. I could just select one blueprint from dropdown menu and click buy. Creating ablueprint can be done with a "create blueprint" button at the last screen where you also click buy. Some input box opens up and you type in the name and it is saved. Deleting could be done after selecting blueprint and just hitting delete blueprint button.

2. Ship count at final dialog on ship buying. If i want to buy 10 capships with specific loadout i could just select the blueprint and enter the number i want to buy and click the button.

Good luck!

Post by **linolafett** » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 09:46

CommanderTM wrote: 1. Blueprints. It would be awesome if we could have blueprint dropdown at ship buy screen and refitting screen.

2. Ship count at final dialog on ship buying.

Both cases are taken care of

The loadout can be understood as a list of upgrades on a selected ship. These loadouts can be saved and edited and are avaliable every time you buy a ship.

EDIT: clarified loadout != blueprint

Cucumber King · Post by **Cucumber King** » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 19:07

Not going for an RTS like element seems like a huge missed opportunity to me.

Fleet management becomes much easier when it moves from the 2D sector map to an actual Homeworld-like view. This would lend itself very well for end-game fleet/asset managment and would show the true scope of battles then fought. Think mouse dragging, drag & dropping for cargo, much more intuitive movement in 3D space and quick RTS like orders.

Sure, realism is at odds here but it wouldn't be unrealistic to assume that a future technology could simulate a real-time sector in a 3D VR environment that a user can interact with.

Here is a video from the Limit Theory prototype that shows an RTS-like environment:

https://youtu.be/ilg8azR2JK8?t=40

The ship cockpits are indeed immersive, but once you are in a capital ship you want to control the sector - and seeing recent VR developments, simulations of ones surroundings aren't a far fetched thought.

If you truly want to cast aside the menu mess of in-sector asset management, this is likely the most intuitive way to do it.

I hope you strongly consider the implementation of a view like this if we are indeed able to control fleets in X4, or create complex space empires.

Post by **Ketraar** » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 19:34

I sure hope not. X is NOT an RTS, even though RTS is my favourite genre, cramming different genres in one game of the likes of X is hardly going to work. As I said before, if you have a "tactical room" of sorts sure, but focus on the first person aspect and the economic simulation first, thanks.

MFG

Ketraar

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 20:43

RTS interface will not make X4 the RTS game. There is plenty of games that use RTS interface but are not - like RPG, MOBA, Shooters.

The old Battlezone 2 was my favorite you command your base and forces via RTS interface and then hop in to FPP to take a walk as infantry or into your hover tank to go into battle.

RTS interface can only improve X4 experience, but will to takover it's soul core gameplay.

CommanderTM · Post by **CommanderTM** » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 21:51

linolafett wrote:
CommanderTM wrote: 1. Blueprints. It would be awesome if we could have blueprint dropdown at ship buy screen and refitting screen.

2. Ship count at final dialog on ship buying.
Both cases are taken care of
The loadout can be understood as a list of upgrades on a selected ship. These loadouts can be saved and edited and are avaliable every time you buy a ship.

EDIT: clarified loadout != blueprint

Thanks for the info. Good to know! Cant wait for the game.

And yeah, by blueprints i meant list of weapons, shields and missles and drones and stuff like that. Just like the XR.

Cucumber King · Post by **Cucumber King** » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 22:28

When you are at the stage of flying a capital ship you will manage a lot. Quickly zooming out into the in-game sector and selecting and commanding a group of ships will be faster and more intuitive than going over a 2D map + visually more appealing. It would also send a true signal as to how the game scales.

Late stage empires have always been juggling through menus, but at least in-sector this could be a lot easier. Large fleet combat in X games has always been more RTS like than anything. This could be further refined and explored in X4.

The X-Series would lend itself perfectly to combining first person with a tactial RTS view, giving players more choice. It would also be a differentiator when comparing it to games like Star Citizen, where RTS elements are infeasible.

X:Rebirth dodged the capital ship question by barring players from command. The answer however lies in creating a more fun, intuitive and streamlined command experience that rewards those who choose to have a squadron or fleet. Of course an empire builder with engagements over vast sectors could benefit from a modern tactical view that engages more than a 2D map.

BigBANGtheory · Post by **BigBANGtheory** » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 23:47

Ketraar wrote:I sure hope not. X is NOT an RTS, even though RTS is my favourite genre, cramming different genres in one game of the likes of X is hardly going to work. As I said before, if you have a "tactical room" of sorts sure, but focus on the first person aspect and the economic simulation first, thanks.

Ketraar is correct in his appraisal imho, X Universe needs to encorporate and integrate RTS elements not become an RTS genre focused game. To do so would compromise the space sim. I think Egosoft understand this and have us covered... The key to all this is to remember that since X3 we have had RTS gameplay in the later game stages all we are really saying is support that gameplay and UX properly and in a way that makes sense.

The way I think of it is allowing the player to expand and be supported by the game mechanics in that expansion. So Space Sim is very much dominant at the start and mid game phases with more tactical and strategic elements coming in later and by player choice. The killer feature imho is to create an environment is which the players economic success in the space sim allows them to expand... so economy can still be the root and key to X Universe it is the motive and justification for choice in the later stages based upon your success. It maybe for example that you do not build you own fleet and manage it yourself rather you buy it in as a service from a faction.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Concerning X4