GCU Grey Area wrote:RAVEN.myst wrote:I very much struggle to understand how some people can find XR's combat more difficult than X3's... it seems utterly inconceivable to me. (Talk about "different strokes", eh?
)
Essentially, in X3 I had access to ships with firepower of an entirely different order of magnitude.
In my last game of AP this was a Heavy Dragon with 6x ISR + 2x PBG for main guns & a 4x PBE turret. Fighter class enemies would evaporate in seconds, often while they were still well outside effective range for their own weapons. Didn't really need missiles as a finishing move in that ship, but if I ever wanted to I had a good selection of missiles to choose from, depending on target's speed & hull strength.
In contrast in XR the only missile I've found in any way reliable in a dogfight is the Starflash & it's severely lacking in punch. Despite having a hypothetical 9k warhead, it generally takes at least half a dozen of them to slowly chew through e.g. a Maelchon with a 29k hull.
As for running away, not only did I have a jumpdrive in X3 (essential in X3 because mission timers tended to assume you had one, they don't in XR so never got round to building one), but also had a superior booster which ran on e-cells (rather than draining shield energy) which made it much more reliable for evasion if a dogfight was going badly.
In general, in XR I feel much less well armed & the universe feels like a much more dangerous place (by the way, this is a good thing IMO). Pirate swarms of 30-40 ships are a frequent sight often including capital ships, whereas in X3 I'd only see those sort of numbers if they were spawned for a mission. Otherwise the X3 universe was a remarkably peaceful place, so much so I'd often go out of my way to antagonise one of the main species (generally either Paranid or Split, often both) just so I'd have some sort of persistent threat out there.
[WARNING: For "dramatic effect" and (and hopefully some small entertainment value), the following is delivered in a sort of "impassioned" tone - no offence is intended.
]
Aaaaaand yet AGAIN come the (IMO) irrelevant specifics - like I said, these are meaningless in the face of the (subjective, as previously noted) experience of it: in the previous (dare I say "true") Xs, I find the combat more challenging and interesting, and no amount of analyzing or arguing the point is going to change that fact (the only thing that COULD change it, would be if
XR's combat were to be made a lot more nuanced, but beyond simply adding more numbers or even improving AI - an overhaul would be needed, probably to the entire engine.) Also, I don't really consider bullying fighters from within a heavy corvette as "dogfighting", so
to me the comparison is hardly fair - of COURSE you have a whole higher order of magnitude of firepower available at that level, but that's not the case if you keep it to fighters (yes, I know - my definition, not yours - but arguably closer to the generally accepted meaning of "dogfight".)
Regarding tactical jumps: this has already been covered by Nikola - yes, they are available, but sometimes having to survive those 10 seconds is the problem, a lot tougher than keeping an eye on shield capacity and boosting sensibly;
*also as previously covered* (this time by me), the Turbo Booster in the previous Xs is
*not universally available*, but rather is a costly upgrade with restricted availability (so, if playing as an enemy of Split, it's not even available) - unlike the Skunk's booster which is built-in by default and for free (though, of course, affected implicitly by shield upgrades.) Also, I find the
Freelancer-style booster on the Skunk to be easier to use than its older counterpart (in terms of its response dynamics) and easier to keep flying with (I'm not, however, saying that this is a bad thing - in this case I'd have to concede that "easier" is in fact "better", IMO) - the previous TB really puts you very nearly into a linear ballistic trajectory. Granted, it IS very powerful - as it damn well should be, given that it costs about the same as or more than the fighter it's fitted onto! And even though it's using ECs instead of shields, those are also used by the JD, and they use up cargo space which may be needed for missiles/ammo - so it's not free to use, while the shield-based one can be kept topped up more or less indefinitely by rotating through a handful of shield support drones, which very seldom get killed.
Speaking of missiles: yes, I totally agree that the
Rebirth missiles are lame - and STILL the combat is too easy for me (ie. just as in your Heavy Dragon, I don't need them as an offensive weapon - they make an adequate defensive measure, though, forcing an enemy into an evasive pattern instead of focusing on me), so just as well, as more effective missiles would make it even more of a joke. On the other hand, the Skunk can carry, on average, way more missiles than a fighter can, after installed shields, guns, ammo (if applicable), ECs for jumping/boosting (if applicable), drones (if opted for), and any other sundries that may be carried - therefore, the "decoy" functionality of the missiles is very extensive, ie. I can use them to keep fighters off my back for very long, ie. again making for easier combat.
I totally agree that feeling small and the universe being a dangerous place is a good thing (VERY good, IMO) in a game - my point is,
Rebirth totally fails to deliver this feeling to me - I never feel threatened in
Rebirth, not even in the early game before upgrades, unless I am strafing a Plasma Jet wielding capital in my Skunk - but then again, strafe any M1 or M2 or most M7s in previous games in a fighter, and you'll be crapping bricks just as much. On the other hand, flying a starting ship in most gamestarts through Pirate Highway can be an utterly hair-raising experience, and often results in being forced to turn back or be destroyed.
As for pirate swarms: thank you for cutting to the heart of it - here's the thing: I find a Carrack or a Galleon and a handful of fighters (which CAN DESTROY MY STATIONS/PLEXES, by the way, and all the ships I have docked therein, let's not forget) a damn sight more lethal than a 30-40 pirate swarm (with or without capital ships) in
Rebirth. Again, please understand that this is MY SUBJECTIVE, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, and trying to change my mind by proffering pseudo-facts is a complete waste of time - yours AND mine.
Conversely, all I've just explained is likewise probably irrelevant to your point of view (and likewise a comparable waste of time - mine AND yours
.)
My point here is this: I've just counterpointed all your points - was it worth it? Did it accomplish anything? Did it change your mind, or your perception? Did, in fact, either of us learn anything from this? I'm guessing the likely answer to all of those is 'no'. Your personal perspective remains unchanged (you still find XR combat more challenging, inexplicably to me), as does mine (I still find X2/X3 combat more challenging - probably equally inexplicably to you) - so why even bother? Why waste the time and effort? [Well, actually, perhaps for the fun of it...] Like I said in the very line you quoted: "different strokes..."
[OK, that's the end of the wild-eyed "ranty" bit, hehehe. I put away my wooden spoon, now...]
Btw, yes I do agree that it's generally necessary to antagonize factions to make things more lively in
X3 (
incidentally, Paranid are also often the object of my... "mischief", with Split a frequent second heheh. However, I also always add either Terran or Argon to the mix, depending on what side I'm playing) - but then, I used to have to do the same in
Rebirth (before I got bored of it - never took more than 5 weeks, and that was the one-time record - the rest of the times, bell tolled after about 2 weeks), so that's a wash in any case - those "cancel each other out".
So go on, enjoy whichever game's combat tickles your fancy the most - regardless of how little sense it makes to me or anyone else. Just don't try to convince me that it makes sense - because it really doesn't, you know...
*ducks*
Good hunting
EDIT: Just to get myself on topic for a brief second: my answer to the OP question is: yes, I think the missiles should have better range (even though that would make the combat even easier) - at the moment, their puny ranges don't make a whole lot of sense to me. Unless they're only meant to be used on New Year (Chinese or otherwise), 4th of July, and the like...