Funeral Etiquette

[greypanther]

It seems I have the chore of going to a funeral next week. A friend of my wife is burying her mother and my wife wants to support her friend, which is very understandable, as they used to be close. I of course want to support my wife and will drive her to the funeral, as she does not drive. No problems so far, but the funeral is being held in a Catholic church, it is a full service. ( Not entirely sure what that entails! )

The problem from my point of view is that I am not even Christian, so find the prospect uncomfortable. I mean it seems to me to be hypocritical ( ? ) almost, to go into a church and " pretend " to believe. ( Not sure if hypocritical is the right word there...)

I never met the deceased and hardly know the wife's friend, yet still feel sympathy for her. She is very devout and I am afraid that I will upset her, if I do not enter the church for the service.

What am I supposed to do, or for that matter what is anyone supposed to do, when faced with the prospect of a long funeral service, in a faith they do not share? It seems to be a case damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I have been thinking about funerals in general, why do people want to spend so much money on them? Obviously it is not for the deceased, so what is the point in spending thousands of pounds? It all seems wrong, almost like the family of the deceased is competing to see who can give the best send off to their relatives.

It seems to me that we all have a very poor attitude to death. I know when I cremated my mother, I just wanted it to be over, wished I could have done without the funeral. Of course I was made to feel compelled to follow the norm.

[Rapier]

I've had similar dilemma's when my grandparents' died. I personally have no need for a funeral to enable me to grieve, but other members of my family do and me being there helps them. I think you have to take these things on a case-by-case basis and balance your needs against those of other people (in this case, your wife and her friend) and make a judgement that you're comfortable with. Sometimes there is no 'good' solution and you just have to do the 'least worst'.

Churches are generally open(-minded/hearted) places and they know that not everyone there will be a Christian at funerals and weddings. When I have to, I got along and stand, sit and bow my head at the appropriate times, but I don't sing (which is a good thing, as I can't!) or join any of the spoken prayers; I've never had anyone bother me about it. I've come to the view that people, a) generally don't notice , and b) still respect you if they do. Basically, if you respect the situation, people will respect you (IMO).

[Santi]

From my point of view the faith of the deceased person or family is irrelevant, it is not about what your faith is, but to show support for a person and honour the deceased, even if you do not know that individual or share the faith.

As a stranger, you go, during the ceremony you can reflect in mortality and the impact your life has on others or think about a new Civ V campaign, give your condolences and then make small chat and try to get off earlier, your presence is just testimonial nothing else.

[Observe]

The problem from my point of view is that I am not even Christian, so find the prospect uncomfortable. I mean it seems to me to be hypocritical ( ? ) almost, to go into a church and " pretend " to believe. ( Not sure if hypocritical is the right word there...)

You don't need to pretend anything. You are going to the service out of love and respect. That's all anyone of good nature can expect. No religion can have anything against that.

[pjknibbs]

Yeah, you're not going into the church to pretend to believe, you're going there to show support for the bereaved and for your wife. It's not like a mighty accusing light from above will shine upon you as you walk through the door while the congregation mutter "Blasphemer!" and turn their faces from you, after all.

[Morkonan]

... No problems so far, but the funeral is being held in a Catholic church, it is a full service. ( Not entirely sure what that entails! )

A little bit longer of a standard memorial service than other Christian faiths. (20 mins, maybe?) Add a few more minutes for "graveside" services, if they're opened to non-family.

The problem from my point of view is that I am not even Christian, so find the prospect uncomfortable. I mean it seems to me to be hypocritical ( ? ) almost, to go into a church and " pretend " to believe. ( Not sure if hypocritical is the right word there...)

Funerals are for the living. In this case, you're going there to show your support for those hardest hit by the death of this person. Regardless of what you believe, it's a gesture showing that you recognize the impact of mortality and, more importantly, the impact that the living can have on each other, while they're alive...

I never met the deceased and hardly know the wife's friend, yet still feel sympathy for her. She is very devout and I am afraid that I will upset her, if I do not enter the church for the service.

Why wouldn't you enter the church? To you, it's just a building where people go to do their religious stuff, right? Don't grandstand, here - You're entering the church to show your compassion to your wife's friend and to support your wife and her relationships, right? So, do that.

What am I supposed to do, or for that matter what is anyone supposed to do, when faced with the prospect of a long funeral service, in a faith they do not share? It seems to be a case damned if you do, damned if you don't.

How is this a negative thing for you? You're doing a positive thing by showing your support, both for your wife's friend and your wife. This isn't about "you" so don't make it about you.

..I have been thinking about funerals in general, why do people want to spend so much money on them? Obviously it is not for the deceased, so what is the point in spending thousands of pounds? It all seems wrong, almost like the family of the deceased is competing to see who can give the best send off to their relatives.

Funerals are for the living. Many people feel that a funeral is "the last thing they can do for the deceased." They're important in that the people making this gesture need to make this gesture. The "guilt of surviving" is very real and these highly orchestrated rituals are an important part of the grieving process in cultures that have incorporated them.

In part, this finalizes the death and makes it "OK" for the person to continue living without grieving or dwelling on the death of someone who may have been the most important person in their life up to that point. Upon conclusion, they can not "move on" without as much guilt or sense of loss, since they have fulfilled their "obligation" to that person.

It seems to me that we all have a very poor attitude to death. I know when I cremated my mother, I just wanted it to be over, wished I could have done without the funeral. Of course I was made to feel compelled to follow the norm.

Everyone has their own feelings about death. I'm not sure what sort of "poor attitude" you're describing. To me, what's most important is how the living feel about the natural state of mortality and how their lives are effected by it. Most importantly, we are reminded of the very real significance of people in our life and, hopefully, we should be reminded that we should spend our time, while living, being a positive part of the lives of the people around us. After all, our time here is relatively short and, one day, we won't have any more time left.

Just remember: If you're truly doing this for your wife and her friend, then this isn't about you. Doing "easy stuff" for other people in order to show that you care for them is... easy. Doing the stuff that is hard for you to do in order to show your compassion for others is what really counts and is what "builds character" and, perhaps, helps you to understand why doing these things is important in the first place.

It's not about you, so don't think like that. You do what you must do in order to be a good person and a good husband to your wife. THAT is all that you should be thinking about.

[greypanther]

Thank you for the replies, gives me something to think about.

The problem is not that I expect some Monty Pythonesque moment, as suggested by pjknibbs, but that my lack of joining in the prayers and singing hymns, during a long church service, is going to be very noticeable, when even with me in there, there will be only seven of us in the church with the Priest.

She does have a large Irish family, but none of them can be bothered to cross the sea to attend. It is quite embarrassing really, in a way. Which made me think about and question the point of funerals in general.

Edit: @ Morkonan: I was not aware that I was making it " about me", but will consider myself chastised. I just worry that I will make things worse for her.

[Morkonan]

...The problem is not that I expect some Monty Pythonesque moment, as suggested by pjknibbs, but that my lack of joining in the prayers and singing hymns, during a long church service, is going to be very noticeable, when even with me in there, there will be only seven of us in the church with the Priest.

Be respectful. Don't place your needs over the needs that you are there to fulfill with your show of solidarity and support. You're there for your wife and her friend, not to somehow convert and start becoming religious at a funeral. If you sing with them, you're singing as a part of what you're doing for your wife and her friend? Are you going to act out, defiant, and refuse to take part in their ritual because of some belief you have that to do so is somehow insulting someone or some thing?

Hard things are hard. This isn't "hard" in the grand scheme of things, is it? So, get over it, go there, do what they do as a part of your demonstration of compassion for what they're experiencing and as your duty as a good husband to your wife. You're there to show the meaning that this event has in your life, as husband to your wife and supporter of her friends, not as some sort of "religious ceremony" you're going to corrupt.

..She is spending thousands and for what?

Because she is in grief and she feels she needs to do that. If you felt you really needed to do something, something that was very personally important to you, and you kept yourself from doing it, what sense of self-betrayal would have, years later, when you couldn't stop thinking about "what you should have done", knowing that you didn't do it?

Life is full of enough regrets already without us purposefully going around and creating new ones. Let her have her time, doing what she things she should do so that she can be free, in some small way, of the possible guilt she'd feel if she didn't do this thing.

..Edit: @ Morkonan: I was not aware that I was making it " about me", but will consider myself chastised. I just worry that I will make things worse for her.

I hope it's understood that all I want you to do is to think in the terms that it appears motivate your show of support. In other words - Your intention is to support your wife and her friend. This is what you feel you should do. OK, so do that! Do that, fully. Don't start getting wrapped up in worrying about trying to not do things that you feel an atheist would normally do in this situation. This isn't about going there to be "an atheist" is it? It's about going there to be "a good husband and friend" to your wife and her friend, right?

So, do that. When faced with a situation while you're there, you do those things that "a good husband and friend" would do, not what "an atheist" would do.

My advice is completely about you. You have a stated motivation. I think it's a positive motivation. So, my advice is to stay on track and be true to original motivation without bringing in all this other stuff your worried about.

If you were going there motivated by the need to do what your ideal of "what an atheist would do", then my advice might be different. But you're clearly thinking about your wife and showing support to her and those people that are significant in her life. So... do that.

PS - Typos and spelling mistakes due to a lack of coffee, or too much, and cold fingers, which are slowly warming up. Which probably explains why this post isn't much, much, longer!

[greypanther]

"what an atheist would do",

I would not know, I am not an atheist...

Oh and I am aware that you consider it odd to use one paragraph, when you can use 20 instead!
( Thank goodness you cannot regulate your temperature and coffee intake properly at the moment, not sure I could take the guilt trip! )

Edit: thank you for taking the time to offer advice, it is appreciated.

[Santi]

Thank you for the replies, gives me something to think about.

The problem is not that I expect some Monty Pythonesque moment, as suggested by pjknibbs, but that my lack of joining in the prayers and singing hymns, during a long church service, is going to be very noticeable, when even with me in there, there will be only seven of us in the church with the Priest.

Nobody is going to be "checking" on you about prayers or singing, they are there not to judge you but in support of a family member or friend and to honour the deceased.

You are still thinking about the funeral in a rather disturbing personal way when it all comes down to show support for a person, be the wife friend or your wife.

[Memnoch]

Can't add anything to what others have said above. I'm an Atheist too but would have no problem attending church out of respect. And besides, I think God would forgive me for not believing in him anyway. As Balian of Ibelin said in the film Kingdom of Heaven:

God will understand... And if he doesn't...then he is not God.

And I'd like to think that everyone else would accept someone sitting in quiet contemplation and respect with that same respect, regardless of their beliefs.

[greypanther]

be the wife friend or your wife.

Say what?

My apologies for disturbing you with my thoughts.

[Avis]

You're not there to believe but to support the living who are grieving or supporting those grieving.

Catholic services wear my teeth down every time, 99% baby Jesus 1% the person who's service it is.
I've been to some where hymns and prayers seemed to go on and on and others where a couple of each sufficed, either way, I don't sing and don't pray I'm not there to pretend to take part in the pantomime, I'm there out of respect for the deceased and those left behind.

[greypanther]

You're not there to believe but to support the living who are grieving or supporting those grieving.

Catholic services wear my teeth down every time, 99% baby Jesus 1% the person who's service it is.
I've been to some where hymns and prayers seemed to go on and on and others where a couple of each sufficed, either way, I don't sing and don't pray I'm not there to pretend to take part in the pantomime, I'm there out of respect for the deceased and those left behind.

Thank you an well said.

I have been told to expect well over a half hour, plus graveside. I will do my best.

Time to leave this alone now, for me. All advice has been helpful.

[mrbadger]

Whether or not you are an atheist has no bearing on a funeral, unless you are expected to take part in a religious ritual you might not understand. Generally this isn't the case.

Funerals aren't for the dead, they're for the people still alive to say goodbye. You only need to be respectful, beyond that you can more or less wing it. Provided you wing it in decent clothes.

I don't do the god thing, but I do like churches, well, old churches anyway, we gave some over a thousand years old near where I live.

I don't like funerals, generally I try to avoid them. Since I think the person is gone everywhere but in the memories of those who knew them and any extant effect on the world they left behind. Burying the body is a matter of hygiene only, not respect. I think a return to exposing on hilltops would be sound.

[Morkonan]

"what an atheist would do",

I would not know, I am not an atheist...

Oh and I am aware that you consider it odd to use one paragraph, when you can use 20 instead!
( Thank goodness you cannot regulate your temperature and coffee intake properly at the moment, not sure I could take the guilt trip! )

Edit: thank you for taking the time to offer advice, it is appreciated.

Sorry I made the "atheist" assumption. Just insert whatever belief you have that could conflict/contradict the ritual of the faith being practice at the event. I simply reply to each question/comment point that's appropriate, and quote the appropriate passage for the convenience of the poster I'm replying to or the reader that might happen upon such a post. That way, they don't have to scroll around looking for what I was responding to.

Time for more coffee! (That deserves a paragraph break )

PS - You'll do fine. Your heart is in the right place and, if it stays there, people will recognize that, no matter what happens. So, keep it there and be true to your sincere motivations!

[Santi]

be the wife friend or your wife.

Say what?

My apologies for disturbing you with my thoughts.

I said "You are still thinking about the funeral in a rather disturbing personal way when it all comes down to show support for a person, be the wife friend or your wife."

You asked about funeral etiquette. What I find disturbing? When someone close to you dies, you do not expect people calling you and even more a total stranger "to raise the subject of faith and asking them about if it should be ok to wait outside the church because you do not share their beliefs." Frankly, it is out of order in such a situation.

[Golden_Gonads]

As has been said, funerals are largely so the family can grieve and let go, for that reason all are welcome in Church regardless of religion. You don't have to believe, you don't have to sing, you just have to be there to support whoever - In this case, your wife who may well get emotional in sympathy with her friend.

[Usenko]

From the other end of the spectrum, we Christians are VERY used to people coming to weddings and funerals who don't believe. We're cool with you if you're cool with us.

[Chips]

Just have a quiet word with the priest before it starts if you're worried. They're humans (certainly didn't necessarily start out as being very religious in their life) - he isn't going to sprinkle you with holy water and press a cross into your forehead while chanting in Latin

I'm not religious, my friends dad was a vicar though, so dinners always had a prayer. Was I thankful for food - yes. Did I believe God provided? Heck no - but I only had to say "Amen" rather than stand up and pontificate about religion; seemed trivial in return for a dinner. Fairly sure I could have kept my gob shut and not said anything and they would not have batted an eyelid.

Personally, in this instance, supporting your partner who's supporting their friend, would trump all personal concerns about saying a few words here and there. I mean most people tell lies in their life, so why would saying a prayer be any different when you don't "mean" it? Not exactly sure why you have to mean it either Words are just words... it's your thoughts, beliefs, actions that would define you as religious. Saying "thanks for the food, dude - Amen" after each meal doesn't make me religious.