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Finishing the Integrative URV Forge in Glaring Truth
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exogenesis



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PostPosted: Sun, 1. Jan 17, 14:42    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Well that went much smoother than I thought,
using the 'dummy CV near the DV gate' work-around method posted by ubuntufreakdragonon (1st page).

Seems the URV station is more sensibly set up that in earlier versions
(it used to have a very weird resource setup for drone production),
& surprisingly it's become profitable quite soon after building completion
(but no station weapons built, to make it easier/quicker as suggested).

Even the 'dummy CV' is now starting to build the ShipTech Fab (makes Fusion Reactors),
so soon(ish) I'll be getting going properly again.

PS : strange that the dummy CV architect was given no construction drones,
but managed to build the first level anyway - eventually,
which was unexpected & could have scuppered this work-around if left too long.

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Sun, 1. Jan 17, 19:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I feel I need to apologise to the OP (mcsquared) and other participants in this thread: I should not have responded to nor engaged with its derailment - the topic was about how to get things done, not whether or not it is "inappropriately difficult", or anything of the sort.


exogenesis wrote:
Even the 'dummy CV' is now starting to build the ShipTech Fab (makes Fusion Reactors),
so soon(ish) I'll be getting going properly again.

Good thinking/planning Smile The proverbial two birds - now that its "unorthodox" function has been fulfilled, it can now go to serve in a more conventional yet massively useful manner.

exogenesis wrote:
PS : strange that the dummy CV architect was given no construction drones,
but managed to build the first level anyway - eventually,
which was unexpected & could have scuppered this work-around if left too long.

Yes, even without CURVs, a CV can still build, albeit as you noticed it's excruciatingly slow. Although in this workaround it could be a disadvantage (it would only have delayed it, though, not scrapped it altogether), in general it's a crucial safeguard: imagine that you buy a CV but the shipyard has no CURVs, so you intend to fit CURVs to it some other way (another shipyard, ship-to-ship transfer, or ship-to-constructionsite transfer), but you forget to do so before you start building something - once a certain portion of the required resources arrives (has to be some of each needed ware), construction begins, and at this point the number of in-use CURVs gets locked in. [I've actually made this mistake once, maybe twice... Oops ] If not for the "droneless construction" capability, that would then make the project unfixably stuck (in most such cases, it may be possible to cancel the job, as that applies only to first-stage, which is when you'd have the problem, having forgotten.)

Worse scenario: imagine that you are doing a non-cancellable phase (ie. any phase after the initial one), and some bad guys show up and destroy all the CURVs - again, this would be irreparably broken from this point. Or, another possible situation: the CV is deployed to a station but is not currently busy with any build orders. Along comes that aforementioned gang of bad guys and takes out the drone bay - all CURVs are lost. You may not necessarily be aware of this, and order an extension to be built - again, once sufficient wares arrive, you'd be screwed.

Another place where this safeguard has proven invaluable (to me, on several occasions - to many others too, I suspect, sometimes even without them realising) - let's say that, like me, you care about helping the Canterans and Heart to build their stations in DeVries. It is entirely possible that any of those CVs could lose all their drones (I've seen it happen on a couple of occasions) - without the safeguard, not only would those be irreparable if they happened to start a phase, but since the AI doesn't think to replace those drones and there is no way for the player to intervene, there would be no way to even try to fix it.

So, to put it shortly (oops! Too late! Very Happy ), thank you Egosoft for putting in that little safety Smile (I suspect it wasn't always there, but was added at some point...)


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Eumerin





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PostPosted: Tue, 17. Jan 17, 23:10    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. Take it for however you want.

I pulled Rebirth out again on Sunday after leaving it alone for a year and a half because of the Fusion Reactor issue. Here's what I experienced over the course of far too much time spent playing over the last couple of days.

- It is nearly impossible to buy from the two LI factories. I camped outside the factories (mostly the one in Buried Treasure, though I also visited the other one briefly) for probably about four hours in total. I watched the production timer, and the moment it hit 0 (every 20 minutes), I checked the trade outlet and the Trade Offers windows. Regardless of which I was checking, the Fusion Reactors appeared for sale exactly one time. It appears that the NPC corps are snapping them up within nano-seconds of the production finishing, making it impossible for a player with human reaction speeds to get them.
- Hijacking is impossible without having to go through an incredible amount of trouble (and expense). I figured that since I couldn't buy the reactors, I would hijack a PMC freighter instead. The first problem was that PMC didn't appear to be the primary buyer. Instead, it was LI, and I didn't want to mess up my rep with them. But eventually, purely by accident, I ended up with a saved game set just as a PMC Hull-Tech Rahanas freighter loaded with Fusion Reactors was about to pull away from the dock. So with my Marine Officer, my 50 marines (3 surviving vets from the storyline hijack, and 47 newbies), and a YouTube tutorial that explained that hijacking freighters was oh so easy, I went after the freighter. Took out the jump drive, took out the rear turrets, took out the engines, boarding pods were launched, boarding party was wiped out shortly after boarding. I figured that maybe the problem was that the forward turrets had killed too many boarding pods. So after reloading, I took another crack at it. This time, I destroyed all of the turrets first (and destroyed the now-partially repaired jump drive again). So there was nothing to stop my boarding pods from reaching the freighter. Failed again. Took a few more stabs at it, had it jump out a couple of attempts when the constant stream of fighters from the nearby base distracted me, had the boarding party wiped out again when it didn't jump, finally gave up.

The problem, as you game vets probably already know, is that freighters are apparently protected by crack teams of commandoes. As I learned when I looked up some posts on the topic, an overstrength platoon of rookie marines, even when led by a good officer (I lucked out in that regard - my hire had Leadership 5, for all the good it did me), apparently can't hijack the freighter unless you first hammer it with fire so badly that it risks structural failure from an incidental micro-meteorite hit. Apparently the solution to this is to work your way up starting with small targets (mining ships? Not sure on this, since the other primary goods freighter can't be boarded.) so that your marines get enough experience that they become Elite, and can start dealing with the commando freighter guards.

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Tue, 17. Jan 17, 23:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@Eumerin: regarding the boarding business... I'm guessing that the video tutorial you found was probably an old one - the game mechanics of boarding were changed significantly in various patches, making it a lot more challenging than it was in the initial release (at which point it was, let's face it, absurdly easy to execute.) So yes, you do need to help your marines even against freighters, early in their careers. There are other piratic alternatives, though, just FYI: for one thing, you can take the simplest option of simply dusting the freighter, and picking through the wreckage. This is, as you probably guessed, the weakest and most random option, as the surviving cargo tends to be paltry and varies wildly (interestingly, blowing up M-sized freighters tends to give much richer loot, relatively speaking.) The other alternative is to use a hacker drone on a freighter in order to get it to release some freight. This option is stronger than the Path of Maximum Force, in that you get more predictable drops; I'm not sure how the rep hit compares to the violent approach - logic would suggest that it should be smaller, but considering that capturing a ship damages your rep more than killing that same ship, I'm not so sure. This hacking approach is quite tricky (only really practical vs. non-hostile ships, as your Trojan drone needs to get in there without getting shot), and involves the "beloved" time-the-squiggle mini-game... Of a harder sort than in conversations... Requiring several successes...

Another but similar approach involves hacking station storage to release its cargo - works much the same way. If you botch it, the station goes red to you for a while. If you get it right, a ton of cargo bins end up floating near the corresponding storage module - as soon as you tag one for collection, the station goes red to you, so some ingenuity is required.

Good hunting! Smile

PS: Oh, and camping the trade offers at those STFs IS definitely a PitA, yes. I generally could expect to snag 2 out of 3 or 3 of 4 at best, sometimes less. If you happen to take the approach of building a station in Albion (either with the intention of completing it and using it to produce stuff you need, or in order to retrieve delivered materials from that CV to divert to your other construction projects), then you can mitigate that nasty business of competing against the NPCs, because now some of them are coming to buy on your behalf, so you've effectively co-opted them.


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Eumerin





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PostPosted: Wed, 18. Jan 17, 00:10    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

RAVEN.myst wrote:
PS: Oh, and camping the trade offers at those STFs IS definitely a PitA, yes. I generally could expect to snag 2 out of 3 or 3 of 4 at best, sometimes less.


Then you were doing far better than I. My stated "one in four hours" comes out to one in *twelve*.

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Wed, 18. Jan 17, 04:15    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Eumerin wrote:
RAVEN.myst wrote:
PS: Oh, and camping the trade offers at those STFs IS definitely a PitA, yes. I generally could expect to snag 2 out of 3 or 3 of 4 at best, sometimes less.


Then you were doing far better than I. My stated "one in four hours" comes out to one in *twelve*.


Heh - well, I forgot to mention that it did involve some very tedious flipping back and forth between station detail screens in order to keep the trade fields updated (they don't update in real time) when the trade fell due - and just to add to the inconvenience, the trade doesn't always go up immediately, sometimes it can be up to a minute or so late - which of course means that when it's been snagged by a NPC unbeknownst to me, I'm flipping back and forth pointlessly like a fool - and no way to know if so until enough time passes... Oops


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Sparky Sparkycorp
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PostPosted: Wed, 18. Jan 17, 09:37    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I was under the impression that the player gets an initial window of opportunity before NPCs purchase something. But I could be mistaken, or it may be shorter than potential delay before a sale appears.


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iforgotmysocks





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PostPosted: Wed, 18. Jan 17, 09:55    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:
I was under the impression that the player gets an initial window of opportunity before NPCs purchase something. But I could be mistaken, or it may be shorter than potential delay before a sale appears.


I doubt that. ^^ I've been camping at stations waiting for reactors to be finished but they never showed up, which means they were already sold.
Sames goes for metal platings alot, they're pretty hard to find in the beginning aswell.

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TheDeliveryMan





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PostPosted: Wed, 18. Jan 17, 11:58    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I played through the plot a couple of times and I always bought the Fusion Reactors from LI Ship Tech Fabs. It requires some patience but is far from impossible. My thechnique relies on a Trading Computer (Mk1 or better), as I developed it before we had Trade Agents. I wait some safe distance away from the station outside the range of the Trading Computer and watch the production timer. A few seconds before the cycle completes I boost towards the station into Trading Computer range to trigger trade updates just after after the FR have been produced. If the Fusion Reactors don't show up in the trade menue I might try to trigger another update by flying outside of Trading Computer range and back in.

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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Wed, 18. Jan 17, 13:09    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

TheDeliveryMan wrote:
I played through the plot a couple of times and I always bought the Fusion Reactors from LI Ship Tech Fabs. It requires some patience but is far from impossible. My thechnique relies on a Trading Computer (Mk1 or better), as I developed it before we had Trade Agents. I wait some safe distance away from the station outside the range of the Trading Computer and watch the production timer. A few seconds before the cycle completes I boost towards the station into Trading Computer range to trigger trade updates just after after the FR have been produced. If the Fusion Reactors don't show up in the trade menue I might try to trigger another update by flying outside of Trading Computer range and back in.


Interesting... I hadn't thought of "encouraging" (read: "forcing" Very Happy ) trade offer updates in such a manner. Presumably, you also occasionally had to deliver some food, ECs or AM Cells to the STFs, given how spotty NPC-driven supply can be. (I too, other than requiring a bit of patience, never found this task particularly challenging, in any of a bunch of playthroughs.)

Off-topic: I've had so little time to read (despite a number of power outages Oops ) that I still haven't gotten much more acquainted with your namesake character in The Dreaming Void. I miss the days when I could devour books in days...
Good hunting Smile


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ubuntufreakdragon



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PostPosted: Wed, 18. Jan 17, 16:38    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@Eumerin use the dummy CV method I posted on the first page.

@Trademenu you can actualize the trade menu by switching between the buy and sell view if I remember correctly.


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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Wed, 18. Jan 17, 16:51    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

ubuntufreakdragon wrote:
you can actualize the trade menu by switching between the buy and sell view if I remember correctly.

That's the method I use - it forces that info to be refreshed.


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RodentofDoom





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PostPosted: Sat, 28. Jan 17, 21:34    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

If you have the expansions you can access OL through the back door via Teladi space.

If you only have vanilla and dont mind a little piracy

Cuspid Splint (Albion:Inner World) is a good ambush spot.
Target PMC [Ship Tech] & [High Tech] freighters using a Traitor ROV on the drive & main engines, reduce defences and then board it.

crew it, send to your construction site and offload the needed supplies
you can then decide whether to sell off in devries, or retain for own trading fleet

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KRM398





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PostPosted: Wed, 22. Feb 17, 15:23    Post subject: my forge problem Reply with quote Print

got the first layer done, added the warf and a big red box appeared around my station, then nothing. I got a manager, a defense officer and added a ship to the station, and asked the architect what wares she needed and what cash, her answer..nothing, she's waiting on orders it says, and doesn't ask for anything. do I need to finish all the upkeep missions for the station before she starts on the warf? because I'm about half way through those, and still not asked to restart the plot yet.

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ubuntufreakdragon



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PostPosted: Wed, 22. Feb 17, 16:41    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

just leave the zone, the red grid means the is something in the buildspot blocking the next stage, if the station gets out of viewing range collision will be ignored, so just fly away.


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