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Finishing the Integrative URV Forge in Glaring Truth
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RAVEN.myst





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PostPosted: Wed, 28. Dec 16, 01:26    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ah, you've presented a scenario I've never encountered (done this part of the plot 5 or 6 times) - I guess I've been lucky. I can just imagine the pain of the STFs running out of Nividium Cubes, which (along with Cut Crystals, Refined Metals, Silicon Wafers, and RMPs) Plutarch has an absolute production monopoly on - you then end up waiting helplessly for NPC traders to supply that ware (unless you put on your eye-patch, mount your parrot on your shoulder and your hook on your hand, and go "procure" some of those Cubes from Intermediates Traders).

By the way, here's another strategy for acquiring those resources - in fact, it makes you increasingly independent, as it involves setting yourself up to produce the three mid-/high-tech good in question. Of course, it requires more patience (well, maybe - then again, if you are sitting waiting a week for NPCs to deliver a handful of cubes to a STF...) Build a Crystal Supplier (and ASAP upgrade it with a cube module) to produce your own cubes and cut crystals - local NPC traders will buy the RMP you'll need from PMC, as most of them are on trading terms with Plutarch (Ledda tend to be the most active in this regard). You can then build a construction shop, a tech lab, and a STF in the same manner (though as you add RMPs and then BOWs of your own making, you become less dependent), until eventually you are buying the cheap basic raw materials (food, energy, etc), and producing all the high-tech stuff you need to build anything you like Smile


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PostPosted: Wed, 28. Dec 16, 19:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Thanks for the details,
wondering if I was just unlucky with the state of the overall economy,
e.g. it's too 'young' yet to fill in those wares gaps.
(I did rush through the plot to this point)

Not quite understanding how building other stations can salve the situation (short term),
since you need even more of those wares (RMP etc).

Must say it's very difficult coming from a 300 station game
to having to 'wangle a way' to obtain the basic tech wares,
not sure I've got the patience to do it all again.

Thinking that the easiest route through is the idea posted above by ubuntufreakdragonon (1st page),
a CV (or maybe warehouse) in Albion to collect the wares from PMC via NPC free traders,
(at least without 'bending' the plot by going direct to HoL or OL).

Maybe plus a bit of opportunistic pirating, if the right PMC cargo ship presents itself...

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PostPosted: Wed, 28. Dec 16, 20:25    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

exogenesis wrote:
Not quite understanding how building other stations can salve the situation (short term),
since you need even more of those wares (RMP etc).


Well, that's not really a short-term solution. How it helps is by allowing you to circumvent the RMP buying restriction by producing your own - along with your own BOWs and FRs, thus making you self-sufficient where those wares are concerned. The key is to build those (at least the Construction Shop and Crystal Supplier) in Albion, so that third-party traders can bring the needed RMP. You can then use your own produced RMP in-system and/or ship it out to your construction sites in DeVries.


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PostPosted: Thu, 29. Dec 16, 05:19    Post subject: Building the Integrative URV Forge in Glaring Truth Reply with quote Print

I've got 71% of the Forge built but cannot seem to got any further. I have 114 Fusion Reactors but when I view the construction plan (1) I scroll down till I get to the URV Whaf and highlight Stage 1. However, I cannot "click" on "Extend" and "Next" because they are not "lit up." Also, if I try to give the Architect more money, the money is gone right after I end my conversation with her and then try to resume it. This is very, very frustration! Any help would be very appreciated.

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PostPosted: Thu, 29. Dec 16, 05:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

They main Point of building a station is where it is build if build in AL OL or HOL a station normally gets all resources delivered by NPC's, in DeVries not, so building a station in AL only requires Credits while build in DeVries requires a Supply chain for building materials.

However you can use the HOL warehause which is pretty cheap to circumvent the need of supply chain, it will be filled with this ware passivly, if build in AL OL or HOL.


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PostPosted: Fri, 30. Dec 16, 03:27    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Quote:
They main Point of building a station is where it is build if build in AL OL or HOL a station normally gets all resources delivered by NPC's, in DeVries not, so building a station in AL only requires Credits while build in DeVries requires a Supply chain for building materials.

And this is why it sucks. Not only do you not have the materials to build the station, you need to build the ENTIRE supply chain to build the station! The catch-22 is that you NEED the entire supply chain already in existence to create the entire supply chain.

The URV forge quest is the most blatantly NOT PLAY TESTED part of the campaign and our moderator tells us exactly why in the very first reply of this thread:
Quote:
Go to Omicron Lyrae.

Protip: You can not access Omicron Lyrae until the forge is built. The gate is not active until 2 quests later.

So you require a rare resource that isn't produced locally, is produced by a hostile faction that you are hard locked out of trading with, and is so unbelievably otherwise rare that it can take HOURS to scavenge up enough parts to complete before you check online and find out you have to enter deep in enemy territory and basically spawn camp them as they come off the line

It took me 6 hours to get enough fusion reactors the first time around, and once it's built you can't even supply it because it devours Nvidium like a space fly colony. This quest should have NEVER made it through QA.

Here are a few options that would fix the quest and make it reasonable:
1) The quest happens AFTER Omicron Lyrae is opened. The player can finally trade in friendly space. Easy.
2) The construction vessel comes pre loaded with FR. Simple.
3) DeVries has some ability to provide FR. Perhaps a side mission to scavenge some of the dead station husks that are everywhere (and practice using cargo mode) for FR. Or a single FR production factory somewhere.
4) The construction quest happens BEFORE PMC turns hostile. It doesn't matter what happens after that.


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PostPosted: Fri, 30. Dec 16, 15:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@ Bobucles: ".. our moderator tells us exactly why ..".

I was replying to the thread title question as stated 'Finishing the Integrative URV Forge ..' and you can indeed progress with the plot after building just a few initial modules of that station as this thread later states. I suppose that if memory had served me well I could have worked out from the ware quantity what module was involved - but it and I didn't. Wink

That original plot mission was indeed play-tested many times and as a result evolved over several post-release updates. That was why pre-stocked wares included on the plot CV have changed a few times since initial release - and may even change yet again if feedback remains constructive.

BTW, moderators are just players like everybody else apart from the devs. They have no especial insider knowledge above any other players that perhaps involved themselves in beta testing. Smile


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PostPosted: Fri, 30. Dec 16, 16:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Na Egosoft should include this mod: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=529329472

Oh and RMP were already patched inside the CV before this patch you had to buy RMP not only Fusionreactors which are at least theoretically available.
I know I was able to solve the mission in v1.something and thats the point before the release XR was tested by LvL5(people who signed a confidentiality agreement, after testing many of the old games) players from the old X that are people who have already delivered 75000Microchips to the Xenon Hub which normally takes days not hours, or managed to get hull plating or MAMWarheads as Enemy of the terrans in large quantities in AP for the peace mission.

Such people will get RMP and FR pretty easy and fast, but for testing Egosoft may needs some normal people. Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: Fri, 30. Dec 16, 18:09    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Quote:
'Finishing the Integrative URV Forge ..'

After the campaign opens up OL the difficulty of getting station resources goes down from "hair pulling nightmare" to "pretty tough". The real challenge is getting to that point to begin with and I assure you that many prospective players quit when they hit the URV forge brick wall.

If you already have pre existing meta knowledge then the best solution is to get the resources ready BEFORE the quest begins. That's no way to design a campaign.

I dunno. The first time I tried the quest way back at release there was no reasonable way to finish it. I literally had to cheat resources just to skip it. Trying it again a few days ago was no walk in the park as I had to basically spawn camp the fusion reactors in enemy territory(Albion IS enemy territory when every zone is hostile PMC) because NO ONE would automatically bring resources in after a dozen hours. I said it took 6 hours because that's when I stopped goofing around and deliberately hunted for FR in any way possible. That's counting the massive score of capturing a cargo ship with half a dozen different goodies inside, dozens of reloads and even having one of the LI factories nearly destroyed so it could no longer produce FR.

The station build quest is still miserable. Most of the reason is because the quest is placed directly into a situation where the player has the fewest options possible. If it existed at literally any other chapter in the campaign then it would have been okay.


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PostPosted: Fri, 30. Dec 16, 23:13    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Bobucles wrote:
And this is why it sucks. Not only do you not have the materials to build the station, you need to build the ENTIRE supply chain to build the station! The catch-22 is that you NEED the entire supply chain already in existence to create the entire supply chain.

There are many ways around this - it's simply a matter of applying the "Think" aspect of all X games to find a solution that works. There are several viable ones, and in fact just about any play style has at least one viable and natural approach - it's simply a matter of not being constrained by one's own expectations and being willing to think through the puzzle. It also serves as a good way of teaching players (especially new players) various subtleties about the game, and to shake them out of their comfort zones. If such thinking is not your speed, then perhaps this game is not for you.


Bobucles wrote:
So you require a rare resource that isn't produced locally, is produced by a hostile faction that you are hard locked out of trading with, and is so unbelievably otherwise rare that it can take HOURS to scavenge up enough parts to complete before you check online and find out you have to enter deep in enemy territory and basically spawn camp them as they come off the line

This is part of the game's challenge:
There are many ways around this - it's simply a matter of applying the "Think" aspect of all X games to find a solution that works. There are several viable ones, and in fact just about any play style has at least one viable and natural approach - it's simply a matter of not being constrained by one's own expectations and being willing to think through the puzzle. It also serves as a good way of teaching players (especially new players) various subtleties about the game, and to shake them out of their comfort zones. If such thinking is not your speed, then perhaps this game is not for you.


Bobucles wrote:
It took me 6 hours to get enough fusion reactors the first time around, and once it's built you can't even supply it because it devours Nvidium like a space fly colony.

X games have never been intended to be completed in a matter of hours - if this game is too time-consuming for you, then perhaps it's not the game for you.


Bobucles wrote:
Here are a few options that would fix the quest and make it reasonable:
1) The quest happens AFTER Omicron Lyrae is opened. The player can finally trade in friendly space. Easy.
2) The construction vessel comes pre loaded with FR. Simple.
3) DeVries has some ability to provide FR. Perhaps a side mission to scavenge some of the dead station husks that are everywhere (and practice using cargo mode) for FR. Or a single FR production factory somewhere.
4) The construction quest happens BEFORE PMC turns hostile. It doesn't matter what happens after that.

Every one of those "options" involve removing the challenge factor of the mission and making it a cake-walk. If this game is too difficult for you, then perhaps it's not the game for you.

Incidentally, I've occasionally seen players complain that they reached the end of the campaign and don't what they're doing - this is usually a direct consequence of rushing through the campaign missions to the end. The RMP and FR sourcing challenges in the Integrative URV Forge construction phase represent a fantastic way to slow down the player and get him/her to use that stuff between the ears.


Bobucles wrote:
If you already have pre existing meta knowledge then the best solution is to get the resources ready BEFORE the quest begins. That's no way to design a campaign...
...The first time I tried the quest way back at release there was no reasonable way to finish it.

Funny, I finished the plot on my own without looking up any help (this is a matter of course for me in ANY game - I refuse to use spoilers or read up other players' solutions at least until I've come up with my own - for me, a handheld walkthrough is not a satisfying way to play a game) - and I can assure you I'm far from alone in this. Many players solved this conundrum, and I was blown away, after thinking myself oh-so-clever to have come up with 2 or 3 methods, to find there were other methods out there that hadn't occurred to me, some of them rather elegant. My point: none of us required "meta knowledge" to get through the game on our first time through.


Bobucles wrote:
I literally had to cheat resources just to skip it.

That's you. Many others did not. If it weren't dangerously close to violating forum rules, I might suggest that thinking that just because you had to, then that's somehow representative is naively egocentric, at best.


Bobucles wrote:
Albion IS enemy territory when every zone is hostile PMC

That's incomplete exploration/scouting - there is a perma-zone with 2 build locations in Albion, specifically Exhaustless Mines in Far Out, conveniently close to the friendly HoA shipyard at Gemstone Manufacture. Furthermore, you don't HAVE to build only in perma-zones, and all "empty space" zones are extra-jurisdictional, so you can build freely without being molested.


Bobucles wrote:
NO ONE would automatically bring resources in after a dozen hours.

Chances are, you were doing something wrong - of the half-dozen-plus times I've gone through the Rebirth plot, my last 2 or 3 involved building in Far Out, and NPC traders (primarily Ledda Industrial) were happy to bring me the necessary resources. After I had a Crystal Supplier and a Construction Shop there, I had no problems getting or making anything I needed thereafter. Oh and the deliveries by LI were impressively fast (though they DO slow down a bit on FRs as the game gets on, as supply falls short of total demand with the player's requirements added.)


Bobucles wrote:
The station build quest is still miserable.

This phase is actually pretty much my favourite in the whole plot, because...
Bobucles wrote:
because the quest is placed directly into a situation where the player has the fewest options possible.

And discovering that those options turn out to be vastly more abundant than apparent at first blush is most satisfying.


Bobucles wrote:
If it existed at literally any other chapter in the campaign then it would have been okay.

In my opinion, replace "okay" with "too easy" - and that's precisely why I think it's perfect where and the way it is.


FINAL NOTE: As ubuntu pointed out, at some point in the version history, the game was patched to provide more than the requisite RMPs to build that station, and that's the only of the construction wares that is "impossible" to get. So, if all you care about is getting through the Integrative URV Forge construction phase in order to continue... then what exactly is the complaint??? The only way you still fall short (of RMP) is if you have the foresight to want to set up your own independent infrastructure - and as explained previously, that's merely moderately challenging (the first time or two - after that it even gets trivially easy). As for Fusion Reactors - again as ubuntu pointed out, those ARE available - sure, they are scarce at the best of times, and it takes a little ingenuity and patience to acquire them. If patience and ingenuity are not your speed, then perhaps this is not the game for you...


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PostPosted: Sat, 31. Dec 16, 00:40    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Bobucles wrote:

So you require a rare resource that isn't produced locally, is produced by a hostile faction that you are hard locked out of trading with, and is so unbelievably otherwise rare that it can take HOURS to scavenge up enough parts to complete before you check online and find out you have to enter deep in enemy territory and basically spawn camp them as they come off the line

RMP is only likely to be sold by the PMC but as noted, that doesn't apply today - as noted above, a game update added enough RMP to the plot CV for plot station construction. FRs are indeed rare but periodically sold by friendly factions, as discussed above. At release, yes, it was hard to gather enough RMP and FRs.


RAVEN.myst wrote:

Bobucles wrote:
The first time I tried the quest way back at release there was no reasonable way to finish it. I literally had to cheat resources just to skip it.

That's you. Many others did not. If it weren't dangerously close to violating forum rules, I might suggest that thinking that just because you had to, then that's somehow representative is naively egocentric, at best.

I don't think you're being particularly fair here. I personally didn't play rebirth until 1.25 but at release:

- We couldn't build in empty space.
- PMC rep wasn't locked (civilian ships would probably be kill on-sight).
- There were fewer galaxy free traders.
- There were no Trade Agents and less station info available (making it hard to know if and when FRs were being produced).
- There were problems with available trading mechanics.

I don't have first-hand knowledge of it but I think I read that in the past, stations had their own ships so perhaps there were fewer NPC system traders for 3rd party deliveries compared to today. Perhaps boarding was working OK at release but before there was a PMC rep lock, it was less easy to evac a capture.

RAVEN.myst wrote:

Bobucles wrote:
Trying it again a few days ago was no walk in the park as I had to basically spawn camp the fusion reactors in enemy territory(Albion IS enemy territory when every zone is hostile PMC)

That's incomplete exploration/scouting - there is a perma-zone with 2 build locations in Albion, specifically Exhaustless Mines in Far Out, conveniently close to the friendly HoA shipyard at Gemstone Manufacture. Furthermore, you don't HAVE to build only in perma-zones, and all "empty space" zones are extra-jurisdictional, so you can build freely without being molested.

Whilst Exhaustless Mines may not be hostile, it isn't a route through which I would expect NPCs would be transporting FRs. Although we could in principle use a second deployed CV in Exhaustless Mines to attract free traders with FRs on-board, I personally think that's a bit too "out-of-the box" to reasonably expect a player to work out on their own.


RAVEN.myst wrote:

Bobucles wrote:
NO ONE would automatically bring resources in after a dozen hours.

Chances are, you were doing something wrong - of the half-dozen-plus times I've gone through the Rebirth plot, my last 2 or 3 involved building in Far Out, and NPC traders (primarily Ledda Industrial) were happy to bring me the necessary resources. After I had a Crystal Supplier and a Construction Shop there, I had no problems getting or making anything I needed thereafter. Oh and the deliveries by LI were impressively fast (though they DO slow down a bit on FRs as the game gets on, as supply falls short of total demand with the player's requirements added.)

Bobucles was probably referring to resources not being brought to the plot CV in DeVries. A long delay isn't unlikely given system free traders in AL will be competing with galaxy free traders for FRs.


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PostPosted: Sat, 31. Dec 16, 03:03    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:
Whilst Exhaustless Mines may not be hostile, it isn't a route through which I would expect NPCs would be transporting FRs. Although we could in principle use a second deployed CV in Exhaustless Mines to attract free traders with FRs on-board, I personally think that's a bit too "out-of-the box" to reasonably expect a player to work out on their own.


I think you misunderstood me here: it doesn't matter whether there is traffic of a ware through that zone - if you have a construction job here, and your architect is funded and the offered prices are left alone (it defaults to max, and it's best to leave it that way, as it NEEDS to be competitive), then whether or not there is passing traffic is immaterial - a trade offer is broadcast, and NPC container-ships will bring in the required construction materials. I wasn't referring to making a "magnet CV" to pull in wares and then ship them off that - I would agree that is somewhat too convoluted for (especially first time players, or even second or third, likely) to come up with. I know I never did myself - I read it suggested by someone some time ago - still never tried it myself, as it kinda violates the "CVs can't sell wares" rule in my opinion - though I think it IS a perfectly valid and ingenious (I didn't think of it - curses! Very Happy ) trick. I was simply referring to the more pedestrian but solid method of getting set up in Albion by instituting RMP production there and, in so doing, getting around the PMC embargo (courtesy of Ledda and friends Smile )

Regarding some other points: yes, I do know (and, in fact, remember) that a lot has changed - for instance, as I kept coming back with every new major revision, I kept seeing the "instant RMP - just add water" that materialises within that plot CV getting more and more abundant, until (in the latest versions) it was more than enough to build a Construction Shop! (Though not enough for a ConShop AND a Crystal Supplier - and both are needed.) And yes, freespace building was only introduced later, too. [But let's not forget: these things are YEARS past relevance!] Nonetheless, even from the (admittedly very troubled) first iteration, I never failed to get the RMP etc needed for the plot - it was satisfyingly challenging, and that's my whole point: whining about it being too difficult is nothing more than exactly that: whining. Many people solved that riddle - claiming that it was "impossible to do" without outside help is ludicrous: if that were the case, who would have been there to provide that help? Did someone travel to the future, read posts on how to solve the problem, then return and post it, in so doing creating an ontological paradox?

People who shy away from challenges and stuff to work out in a "fight, build, trade, THINK" game are perhaps not looking for their instant-gratification easy kicks in the right place... Accusing the game of being "broken" or "ill-conceived" or "untested" because it contains intriguing challenges is downright absurd. By that logic, old classics such as Myst or (to a lesser extent) Fahrenheit should be considered totally unplayable and undeserving of existence. By that logic, Dark Souls, which received excellent reviews despite being fiendishly difficult, should not exist, or at least should not have proved praise-worthy.


However, just to play devil's advocate against myself... Very Happy I certainly agree with difficulty settings for games, if they are well implemented. Here is where there is a missed opportunity, in Rebirth - the difficulty settings shouldn't only (in my opinion) apply to combat difficulty and numbers of enemy spawns, but should also influence economic and infrastructural game aspects. As such, an easier level could have more relaxed (though I find the current state of affairs trivially easy as is) requirements for the infamous Integrated URV Forge et al, along with higher availability of wares AND (somehow) greater demand for wares (this could be tricky to implement, because higher demand of some things means LOWER availability on products depending on them...) Conversely, higher difficulty settings could mean that in some areas it becomes harder to trade profitably (highly competitive market), or that there are critical but hard-to-fill shortages, perhaps due to frequent vandalism of storage facilities. Not everyone IS looking for the same high level of challenge (and it would be arrogant of me to assume along such lines), so if a broad spectrum of players is to be enticed, if the game is to be made "more accessible", then it needs to be able to cater to both extremes as much as possible, with as little penalty to either.

Anyhow, now I'm simply rambling... over and out! Smile


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PostPosted: Sun, 1. Jan 17, 00:02    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Man, I'm not a big fan of textual walls. Let's see if I can boil down RAVEN's reply to its base components.
Quote:
No, it is YOU who was playing wrong!

Is that good? Did I get that right?

I'm no stranger to the X series. I started up pretty late on X3, lost weeks of my life, built the HUB, and went to Rebirth when it came out. I'm not saying the campaign quest is impossible. I got through it after all. I'm saying that the main goal of the campaign is to show new players the core concepts of Rebirth, almost like a tutorial. In this respect it does EVERYTHING wrong with the station building quest.

The most important quest flaw is in its timing: The quest exists at the most difficult point of the campaign! You have to build in dead space. You only have access to Albion. The primary supplier of station resources is permanently hostile. The hostile force guards your only gate. There are no other friendly territories. This combination of circumstances creates the most difficult point in the campaign to build anything.

Raven explains the difficulty of completing this quest much better than I:
Quote:
making a "magnet CV"...
Albion has only 2 safe zones...
You should build other stations first... (FYI fusion reactor factories are among the most expensive in the game)
It's supposed to take many hours...
It's just not the game for you.

I mean. Wow. Thanks for making my point for me.

I'm not saying the mission should be a complete cakewalk, but consider this. Building a station is easier at literally every other point in the campaign. It is simple to gather the resources before entering DeVries. It is easy to get resources after being trapped in Omicron Lyrae. It is easy to build nearly anywhere after unlocking maelstrom. All of these chapters give the player more options, better options, and fewer obstacles towards completing the quest. Because of that I am very confident when I say that the campaign URV quest is very simply a BAD quest. It should have never been placed in the middle of the DeVries chapter.


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PostPosted: Sun, 1. Jan 17, 00:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Bobucles wrote:
Man, I'm not a big fan of textual walls. Let's see if I can boil down RAVEN's reply to its base components.
Quote:
No, it is YOU who was playing wrong!

Is that good? Did I get that right?

Ummm... where did you get THAT from? Certainly not quoting me, there. Manufacturing quotes - lame (and manipulative and dishonest - putting words in others' mouths. Despicable.)


Bobucles wrote:
I'm saying that the main goal of the campaign is to show new players the core concepts of Rebirth, almost like a tutorial.

Fair enough, I completely agree with that assessment, until...
Bobucles wrote:
In this respect it does EVERYTHING wrong with the station building quest.

The most important quest flaw is in its timing: The quest exists at the most difficult point of the campaign!

And that's where the wheels fall off for me - so, in keeping with putting words in each other's mouths, let me turn the tables here - what you're saying is:
Quote:
All lessons should be pathetically easy and never stretch/challenge the student's imagination, skills, or capabilities.

Is that good? Did I get that right?
So what you're implying is that there shouldn't be any difficult lessons. Well, at least you seem to be in agreement with current trends in national education in many countries, where passing-grade percentages seem to be increasingly becoming more important than actually TEACHING pupils what they will need in life... Keep on lowerin' that bar, yeh!

Bobucles wrote:
You have to build in dead space.

No you don't - you CAN, but you don't HAVE to - I did so only once, in my LAST playthrough, and that was totally optional, purely done because I wanted to build a full infrastructure in Albion (just for a change, in order to alleviate the tedium of a too-easy game), which on my previous ~6 go-rounds I didn't bother to (sometimes building just Crystal Supply and ConShop, other times NOT BUILDING IN ALBION AT ALL, but instead finding other ways around.)

Bobucles wrote:
You only have access to Albion. The primary supplier of station resources is permanently hostile. The hostile force guards your only gate. There are no other friendly territories. This combination of circumstances creates the most difficult point in the campaign to build anything.

GOOD!!!! People get the chance to sink their teeth into a challenge, and perhaps even LEARN some new skills and tricks! FFS, if it's a cakewalk all the way through, what would be the [REDACTED] POINT? It would utterly fail in its function as tutorial (which, let's not forget, you yourself endorsed. Wink )

Bobucles wrote:
Building a station is easier at literally every other point in the campaign. It is simple to gather the resources before entering DeVries. It is easy to get resources after being trapped in Omicron Lyrae. It is easy to build nearly anywhere after unlocking maelstrom. All of these chapters give the player more options, better options, and fewer obstacles towards completing the quest.

And thank YOU for making MY point for me: if that iURVForge mission were to be placed anywhere else, it would become bland and simply "just more of the same" - but it's PRECISELY being placed when/where it is that distinguishes it, making it memorable and also teaching new ways to think around problems (for those willing to put to use that thing between their ears - no, not their noses). Seriously, there's nothing wrong with suddenly pulling the player up short and getting him/her to scratch his/her head, and THINK for a change. It is PRECISELY that mission placement that maximises its "tutorial value", which would be undermined at any other point in the game. The crux of it for me is: easier is NOT better, in fact quite the opposite.

I say, bring on the tough missions, the tricky puzzles, the unintuitive conundrums (please note: I am NOT advocating unintuitive controls and such!), the head-scratchers, the stumpers, the subtleties, the dilemmas. Egosoft, PLEASE do not compromise your vision for the sake of "greater accessibility" and such - I can't play tennis to save my life, but I don't whinge on about the net being too high - that would be absurd, no? Well, then, please keep making your games challenging and interesting. Sure, feel free to include an "I-win-with-a-click-of-the-mouse-while-not-using-my-brain-at-all" difficulty setting for the instant-gratification crowd if you feel it's that necessary - but please don't let the lowest common denominator compromise and corrupt (ie. dumb down) your games for the rest of us. There's plenty of material out there for the mass-market, so arguably it's pointless to even try to compete with such drivel, but niches like this X-community are increasingly getting neglected - please look after us, so that we may look after you.

Nappy Yew Hear! (and back to my first drinking of the year, heheh)


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Alan Phipps
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PostPosted: Sun, 1. Jan 17, 12:55    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@ RAVEN.myst and Bobucles: Unless you want this thread locked as happened with the Defence Officer one due to you two arguing heatedly, please cut out the personal comments and stick to discussing the topic politely. Thank you.


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