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New X game anti-wishlist!! write here features you dont need in next X game
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matveich[EG]





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PostPosted: Thu, 27. Apr 17, 17:26    Post subject: New X game anti-wishlist!! write here features you dont need in next X game Reply with quote Print

The purpose of this topic is for the members of the community to discuss features of the upcoming X games, that they do not want to be implemented or do not care about. State things you are ready to sacrifice in order for the features you want to be implemented.

Remember, that your opinion has to be reasonable. If you do not want to see a certain feature in the new game, it must not be a core feature(like station construction) and be substantial enough.

Here are a few things I consider worth removing from X4:

1) Plot.
Every X game is a sandbox, where plot is more of an extended tutorial than an important aspect of the game. I would not mind if there wont be any plot in X4 and new game scenario is explained in a separate pdf file. In my opinion time spent on developing assets for a new plot, could be better spent on improving AI logic and UI.

2) Generic missions.
In X:R generic missions are too disconnected from the universe. Ships spawning out of thing air for you to kill do not feel like a part of live universe with real economy, where everything is produced from resources. In fact these missions are a legitimate hack to capture a nice fleet of capships without any consequences on game economy or faction reputation.
So, choosing between generic missions that give player an unfair advantage and no missions at all I chose the latter.

3) Flyable cap ships(and other ships).
Because "flying capital ships is boring". As long as I can stand on the bridge of my personal destroyer and command my fleet, I do not really care if I can WASD the damn thing or not.

4) Crafting and weapon mods.
To be fair I like this aspect of X: Rebirth as it actually gives purpose to exploring space and spending time exploring stations architecture to find something really unique. Looting enemies also brings some of the missing RPG elements and extra excitement, when you find good weapon mods.
Yet again this aspect gives player some unfair advantage over NPCs and I would sacrifice this feature, if I can get some improvements to managers AI.

5) Multiple weapon types.
This is a rather small thing to consider, but taking into account the necessity to create 3d models(turrets and bullets), fx and balancing, I think it is worth mentioning. It is better to have a small number of distinct and well-polished weapons like in X:R than a whole array of weaponry of X3. So, I would not mind if no new weapon types are added into the game, but existing ones are improved and rebalanced.

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SteveMill





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PostPosted: Thu, 27. Apr 17, 18:55    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

1. Mini-games

2. A pre-2010 interface

3. Bad character models and amateur voice acting.

4. 'Humour.'

5. Unfinished and broken on release.

6. Cut and paste assets.

Just give us that good old X games gameplay but with a set of modern interfaces and we will hrow money at you.

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matveich[EG]





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PostPosted: Thu, 27. Apr 17, 19:33    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

SteveMill wrote:
1. Mini-games

2. A pre-2010 interface

3. Bad character models and amateur voice acting.

4. 'Humour.'

5. Unfinished and broken on release.

6. Cut and paste assets.

Just give us that good old X games gameplay but with a set of modern interfaces and we will hrow money at you.


This is exactly the type of posts I want to avoid in this topic. If you are incapable of reading and understanding the differences between a feature, a design flaw and a game bug, then you should restrain yourself from commenting in this topic.

The only bit I can agree is removal of mini-games from X4, as those potentially can be repetitive and intrusive, if there are no alternative ways, not involving minigames. So if there are no mini-games and you are required to spend money or time(when scanning with drone for example) it is a better alternative to having bad mini-games.

Everything else you mentioned is not relevant to game having certain features or not. Everyone would like the game to be bug-free and stable, and not like the game to be broken. The questions is which aspects of the game(as in the feature set of all X games) are not important to you, so you are willing to sacrifice them for the devs to spend more time on QA? Would you like to sacrifice trading, boarding or station building for that? If you can not answer this question, please, refrain from posting here.

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kurush



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PostPosted: Thu, 27. Apr 17, 19:53    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Flying a capital ship is a deal breaker for me considering that I spent 90% of my game time in X3 and X2 doing exactly that. You captial ship under AI control will mean watching helplessly how dumb AI is killing it and I am not paying for that. (may be I am, but not before the price drops under $15 as I did with Rebirth).

Weapon mods? I am not sure why would it be bad and it also is cheap to implement.

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ubuntufreakdragon



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modified
PostPosted: Thu, 27. Apr 17, 20:19    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Edit: oh mixed up topics Rolling Eyes
Unwanted things:
1)minigame
2)pirates using jumpbeacons
3)blocking commenu
4)separation of player and mass wares
5)temporal separation of any single action e.g. first order to repair than to get drones... or frist build stage one than order stage 2 of a station


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Last edited by ubuntufreakdragon on Thu, 27. Apr 17, 22:25; edited 3 times in total
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Nanook
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PostPosted: Thu, 27. Apr 17, 20:21    Post subject: Re: New X game anti-wishlist!! write here features you dont need in next X game Reply with quote Print

matveich[EG] wrote:
The purpose of this topic is for the members of the community to discuss features of the upcoming X games, that they do not want to be implemented or do not care about. State things you are ready to sacrifice in order for the features you want to be implemented.

Remember, that your opinion has to be reasonable. If you do not want to see a certain feature in the new game, it must not be a core feature(like station construction) and be substantial enough.

Here are a few things I consider worth removing from X4:

1)...
2) ...
3) ...
4) ...
5) ...


1. Disagree
2. Disagree
3. Disagree
4. Disagree
5. Disagree.

Razz

I like all those features assuming they're done right.

For me:

Highways - really, in space???

Claustrophobic zones, sectors.

Ships built at shipyards disappearing, ships spawning out of nowhere. Destroyed ships should be replaced by the shipyards.


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BigBANGtheory





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PostPosted: Thu, 27. Apr 17, 21:19    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

hmmm I would say...

1. highways
2. any attempt at RPG
3. repetative dialog
4. low polygon character models
5. a universal gamepad optimised UI


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Ezarkal





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PostPosted: Thu, 27. Apr 17, 21:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

1) Crew micro-management. It's a very good idea to be able to hand pick your crew so have more optimal ships, but a very bad one to have none of your freshly built capship missing two essential crews, or your stations having none. The point I'm trying to raise here is, while it was a good idea for early game customization, it quickly became tedious when you try to manage a full empire. Ships and stations should at least have the minimal crew for running, and any other crew shouldn't have to be taxied by the player himself. (It could actually become a reason to see NPC taxi ships in the galaxy.)

2) On a closely related subject, NPC skills should always be revealed (if it's still applicable). Ever heard of someone being hired for an important position without submitting a resume to his employer? Or an applicant who has to be bribed before submitting said resume? Aren't these people looking for a damn job? If the goal was to have a factor of uncertainty on their skills, them let them lie about it to a certain extent. But put in some stats.

3) On NPC speeches. While I certainly don't mind being insulted by space pirates or enemy factions, why the hell are my own employees, commercial partners and various allies treating me like they want me to shoot them in the face?

4) UI focused on gamepad access. I believe X games are complex enough to justify the use of mouse and keyboard. If you want to make it accessible to gamepad, fine. But focus on mouse/keyboard first, and then see if you can find solutions for gamepad imput. Don't compromise the whole thing for it.

There are more, of course, but it will come later as I wanna take time to look at them and word my thoughts (...and also avoid repeating what was already discussed over and over in other forums.)
Besides, we've already got confirmation that many points we listed over the past few years are being looked into. Might be worth it to wait for more details.

@ matveich[EG]:
Quote:
3) Flyable cap ships(and other ships).
Because "flying capital ships is boring". As long as I can stand on the bridge of my personal destroyer and command my fleet, I do not really care if I can WASD the damn thing or not.

Nice kick in the hornets nest. Wink I can see another threads incessant circling arguments popping up soon.


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mr.WHO





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PostPosted: Thu, 27. Apr 17, 21:58    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Ezarkal wrote:

3) On NPC speeches. While I certainly don't mind being insulted by space pirates or enemy factions, why the hell are my own employees, commercial partners and various allies treating me like they want me to shoot them in the face?



IKR. It's like whoever wrote these speeches had serious passive-agresion issues Smile

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kurush



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PostPosted: Fri, 28. Apr 17, 06:46    Post subject: Re: New X game anti-wishlist!! write here features you dont need in next X game Reply with quote Print

Nanook wrote:
I like all those features assuming they're done right.

^This. My problem with Rebirth is that
1) Egosoft completely remade the gameplay
2) I am struggling to name a single feature they did right in the process.
I'd be happy with pre-rebirth gameplay with a graphic facelift and a multi-threaded core. The trade and factory simulation there was beautiful in its simplicity and elegance. What we have now is the exact opposite - convoluted model that is not engaging at all.

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matveich[EG]





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PostPosted: Fri, 28. Apr 17, 08:56    Post subject: Re: New X game anti-wishlist!! write here features you dont need in next X game Reply with quote Print

kurush wrote:
Nanook wrote:
I like all those features assuming they're done right.

^This. My problem with Rebirth is that
1) Egosoft completely remade the gameplay
2) I am struggling to name a single feature they did right in the process.
I'd be happy with pre-rebirth gameplay with a graphic facelift and a multi-threaded core. The trade and factory simulation there was beautiful in its simplicity and elegance. What we have now is the exact opposite - convoluted model that is not engaging at all.


I guess by now everyone on the forums and at Egosoft HQ is aware that kurush is upset about the game in general and inability to fly capital ships in particular. Now, if only there were people who actually cared about his feelings... Not liking the game is not an excuse to keep whining all the time.

But in all seriousness, stay on topic. Pick a feature or two that is either already present in X: Rebirth(and working correctly) or on devs TODO list and comment that having this feature is not important to you and would not mind if it is dropped from the game or at least not improved at all.

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CBJ
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PostPosted: Fri, 28. Apr 17, 12:09    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

OK, this is getting unnecessarily personal.

The OP has a point that there have been plenty of threads for people who just want to make general statements about not liking XR, and that it would make a change to have one for some specific, and perhaps constructive, discussion about what people would not like to see in the next game.

However that is not an excuse for making personal attacks, so keep it friendly if you want the thread to remain open.

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Oldman





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PostPosted: Fri, 28. Apr 17, 17:08    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hi folks Smile

Highways.
1. One of the things I didn't like about XR was these. For some reason it virtually destroyed my feeling of being in 'Space'.

2. Certain planets are quite detailed surface wise, I was hoping there'd be a space port or two on some of them. Was a bit miffed that Egosoft hadn't taken the plunge and put a planet port on at least one of 'em.
I could go down virtually into (the lip) of a large crater on one of the planets (can't remember off hand which planet at the moment). It could have had the port foundations fixed to the crater base but the docking ports for ships way up in the atmosphere (if you get my drift), something like a 'sky' city'.
At least that would have made a good feeling of (an imagined connection with) docking at a planets city etc.
Edit...I think the planet I'm describing is in 'Aspiring Champions'?...or very near, it has the crater on the nearest planet to the station.

Oldman Smile

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Nikola515





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PostPosted: Fri, 28. Apr 17, 19:14    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

XR Economy

All thought i like how economy works in XR it dont leave much options with large empire building. Economy is unchanging and limited to local productions (no more player galaxy/universal trader). Sectors like DV or Cold Star are useless do to lack of sinks in them making them pointless for empire building. I actually use mods where I build my empire in DV and use Station Galaxy Trader to sell to Albion and OL (it is actually game changing mod ). Another problem is that player ships/managers are too stupid to use 100% of ships cargo. For example ship would jump 3 sectors away to sell 100 E-Cells wasting 600 F-Cells. Also sometimes stations needs 10.000 E-cells and ship will just go and sell 500 at time even thought my stations is full of E-cells.

Anyway my point is that they should fix economy and create more sinks (like hub from X3) and at the same time fix that damn AI already Rolling Eyes Also another fake economy that don't have anything to do with main economy would help. Something like station building small arms or space suits(that mass traffic can be put to good use and buy that junk)....


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aquatica



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PostPosted: Fri, 28. Apr 17, 21:22    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

User Interface.

I could live with the bonkers AI. I could handle the extremely complex stuff regardless of whatever.

But I cannot handle the User Interface. I mean really. Things that used to be somewhat accessible (in X there has always been a lot of things you can do, so it is unsurprising that you needed a lot of shortcuts etc), like getting a ship X ordered to go to place Y - or to dock at station Z.

The whole UI is utterly and completely rewritten from scratch, it would seem, solely in the mindset that the game would played with a gamepad.
Hence everyone else is, well, literally screwed up. Navigating the menus after 80+ hours? No way in heck. I still have absolutely no idea what I am doing. I've watched dozens of tutorials on Youtube and so on. Absolutely horrendous the whole interface experience.

PS.
I didn't like the change from X2 to X3:R in the UI either. But it worked. It was pretty much the same after all, just some major tweaking. The thing that's done with XR is the same as would happen if Microsoft suddenly decided to create iOS-clone.

Oh wait.

They almost did, with Win10. They wanted to, but couldn't. And now they have something that doesn't like to be what it is, meaning it's bad user experience.

Just bring back the *actually working* system?! Pleaaaaaase.

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