Old player returns and need some help with ships and weapons

[lostone1993]

Been a while since I have played x3TC and feel like playing again I need some help updating a script now to cut things short, I made a script for x2 to give me a head start. it spawned a trading station, a kitted out trade ship, M6 and M5

I don't feel like starting from scratch again and so plan to update this, here is my problem I remember enough from x3tc that m6's are kinda useless in a fight so I was wondering if I could get some suggestions for replacement ships and weapons for them.

I am not looking to be overpowered, I am just a useless fighter pilot and don't feel like trading for 20+ hours just to get a ship that can give ma a chance of wining

seriously though I can be in a m3 and lose to a m5

I was not sure if this should go in the scripting subforum or not

[ancienthighway]

It would be easy enough to pick up Cycrow's Cheat Package. You can spawn anything in the game, to include hidden goodies.

As far as M6's, they do well against M6 and below. There are a couple that can take on M7s. With some engine and steering tunings, they handle quite nicely in battle.

[Cpt.Jericho]

Basically, all you need is a TS, a jumpdrive and some e-cells. Some Credits may be useful, too. All you need to do is to boost your reputation by doing taxi runs and have enough money to build your primay money maker.

[RAVEN.myst]

As far as M6s go, if you are not so much of a dogfighter, then you might consider one of the heavy corvettes, which pack stronger shields and turrets - then you can cruise around to heart's content and have your turrets handle much of the heavy lifting. If you opt with scripted spawning of starting assets, you may consider one of these.

Examples include:

- OTAS Skyron (great shields, good speed, decent weapons, medium agility)
- Heavy Centaur Prototype (good shields, great speed, good weapons, good agility)
- Heavy Osprey (great shields, lousy speed, decent/good weapons, medium/low agility, good cargobay)
- Hyperion Vanguard (great shields, great speed, great weapons, best cargobay, great agility, only M6 sporting fighter docking bays [2 of them])

Alternatively, if you want a more extravagant ride, there are several M7 options, I'll only mention one example here, the Gryffon (good speed, good shields, decent weapons, good agility, compact for its class [good for turning without sideswiping other objects, and makes for a smaller target], boasts 9 fighter docking ports, good cargobay)

There is another alternative you may consider if you want to do some 'commanding' instead of 'piloting': the M7C (light carrier frigate) class. These ships are generally faster than regular frigates, not agile, have shields comparable to those of M6s, generally slightly better weapons than M6s and with greater emphasis on turrets, usually have large cargo-holds, and typically sport around a dozen fighter bays (this number varies - one has double that many, a couple of have slightly fewer.) Two of the more interesting ones are:

- The Paranid Ariadne, which has an unusual appearance, carries up to 24 fighters, has below-par shields, good weapons (for its class), and can allow a TS or TP ship to dock with it (for some play styles, this is hugely useful.) This ship is for someone who wants to deploy large fighter wings earlier, without having to build up to an M1 carrier ship (one can then always get an M1 later and move the fighters over.)
- The Boron Guppy: striking-looking (quite nice, actually), with decent weapons, good speed, standard shielding, and a dozen docking ports (if I remember correctly), one of them being able to accommodate a TS or TP, just as the Ariadne can. This ship is more compact than the Ariadne, thus less cumbersome.

This M7C sub-class of ships is much-maligned and often highly underrated. They can serve as excellent mobile bases of operations for the early(ish) game, for several styles of play: commanders/delegators who like to get others to get their hands dirty can use these to launch fighter wings and drone swarms; players who like to dogfight in fighters instead of upgrading through ship classes can do so conveniently, as the M7C offers the range of operations of a capital ship, delivering its fighters to a desired sector, whereupon the player can then hop into his/her favourite fighter and get personal with the enemy; peaceful players mainly trading/building can also enjoy considerable flexibility, as the large cargo holds allow for considerable jumping around before refuelling becomes necessary, and the docking ports (especially if including a transport docking port) allow a variety of utility vessels to be carried on-board.

Good hunting!

[lostone1993]

It would be easy enough to pick up Cycrow's Cheat Package. You can spawn anything in the game, to include hidden goodies.

that's simple to answer, I don't mind programing stuff and why download a mod when I can do it just as quick myself....I think

As far as M6's, they do well against M6 and below. There are a couple that can take on M7s. With some engine and steering tunings, they handle quite nicely in battle.

hmm, maybe my memory is a bit faulty but thanks for the info

Basically, all you need is a TS, a jumpdrive and some e-cells. Some Credits may be useful, too. All you need to do is to boost your reputation by doing taxi runs and have enough money to build your primay money maker.

This is mainly to give me some variety, I don't mind doing missions and trading but I start to go mad if all I am doing is mainly setting a destination then letting auto pilot and SETA do the rest so the attack ship lest me hunt some pirates if I get bored

As far as M6s go, if you are not so much of a dogfighter, then you might consider one of the heavy corvettes, which pack stronger shields and turrets - then you can cruise around to heart's content and have your turrets handle much of the heavy lifting. If you opt with scripted spawning of starting assets, you may consider one of these.

Examples include:

- OTAS Skyron (great shields, good speed, decent weapons, medium agility)
- Heavy Centaur Prototype (good shields, great speed, good weapons, good agility)
- Heavy Osprey (great shields, lousy speed, decent/good weapons, medium/low agility, good cargobay)
- Hyperion Vanguard (great shields, great speed, great weapons, best cargobay, great agility, only M6 sporting fighter docking bays [2 of them])

Hmm that quite useful, I had forgotten about those. I will take a look
that Hyperion sounds awesome

thanks

Alternatively, if you want a more extravagant ride, there are several M7 options, I'll only mention one example here, the Gryffon (good speed, good shields, decent weapons, good agility, compact for its class [good for turning without sideswiping other objects, and makes for a smaller target], boasts 9 fighter docking ports, good cargobay)

There is another alternative you may consider if you want to do some 'commanding' instead of 'piloting': the M7C (light carrier frigate) class. These ships are generally faster than regular frigates, not agile, have shields comparable to those of M6s, generally slightly better weapons than M6s and with greater emphasis on turrets, usually have large cargo-holds, and typically sport around a dozen fighter bays (this number varies - one has double that many, a couple of have slightly fewer.) Two of the more interesting ones are:

- The Paranid Ariadne, which has an unusual appearance, carries up to 24 fighters, has below-par shields, good weapons (for its class), and can allow a TS or TP ship to dock with it (for some play styles, this is hugely useful.) This ship is for someone who wants to deploy large fighter wings earlier, without having to build up to an M1 carrier ship (one can then always get an M1 later and move the fighters over.)
- The Boron Guppy: striking-looking (quite nice, actually), with decent weapons, good speed, standard shielding, and a dozen docking ports (if I remember correctly), one of them being able to accommodate a TS or TP, just as the Ariadne can. This ship is more compact than the Ariadne, thus less cumbersome.

This M7C sub-class of ships is much-maligned and often highly underrated. They can serve as excellent mobile bases of operations for the early(ish) game, for several styles of play: commanders/delegators who like to get others to get their hands dirty can use these to launch fighter wings and drone swarms; players who like to dogfight in fighters instead of upgrading through ship classes can do so conveniently, as the M7C offers the range of operations of a capital ship, delivering its fighters to a desired sector, whereupon the player can then hop into his/her favourite fighter and get personal with the enemy; peaceful players mainly trading/building can also enjoy considerable flexibility, as the large cargo holds allow for considerable jumping around before refuelling becomes necessary, and the docking ports (especially if including a transport docking port) allow a variety of utility vessels to be carried on-board.

Good hunting!

that sounds awesome, if I use a M7C then I don't need the equipment dock, since it can dock a TS I only used it as a dock and storage

thanks for the info I am starting to get a feel for what I am doing to spawn

a Hyperion Vanguard, Ariadne, TS and a couple of fighter for defence that a unique start

[Zaitsev]

Correction from the sideline: The M7C-class is exclusive to X3AP, and is nowhere to be found in TC. If you want a good allround ship and you don't want to take the step up to AP, then the Hyperion Vanguard is first on a very short list of viable ships. It has the best maneuverability of any M6 in TC, it's one of, if not the best shielded M6, it's among the faster M6-class ships out there, it has a huge cargo bay and as RAVEN.myst already mentioned it can dock two fighters.

[ancienthighway]

Actually there are 2 M7C class frigates in TC, the Split Panther and the Griffon. The Griffon is only available as a plot reward though.

Another route that you might consider is using a TM.

The Yaki Chokaro is a great mission ship with a very roomy cargo hold, three fighter bays, and with it's Advanced variant is two of the three fastest TMs. Load it up with your favorite M3 and M5, and there's only a few missions it can't do.

The OTAS Zephyrus is slightly slower, the most shielding, but the smallest cargo hold. The Zephyrus was designed for self defense and light attack; it's the only TM with frontal guns along with the 2 turret standard for the class and has the widest selection of missiles of any TM.

[RAVEN.myst]

Correction from the sideline: The M7C-class is exclusive to X3AP, and is nowhere to be found in TC.

Oh, crap - I wasn't paying attention, didn't realise we were talking TC (even though it's clearly stated...) - thanks for spotting that, Zaitsev My apologies, Lostone1993 - the closest you will get to M7C in X3TC are the Argon Gryffon (plot reward, but if you script you probably can get it in regqardless) and the Split Panther (which is disgustingly good as an all-rounder, anyway.)

Also, Ancienthighway makes an excellent point, regarding the TM class of ships. These I consider a must-have in the early game (and plenty handy later on, too) - they serve as micro-carriers and excellent mobile bases of operations, and are more docking-versatile than M7Cs - the latter are capital ships, after all, and require large docks, while TMs can dock at any station.

[Snafu_X3]

The Yaki Chokaro is a great mission ship with a very roomy cargo hold, three fighter bays, and with it's Advanced variant is two of the three fastest TMs.

I may well be mistaken, but isn't the Adv Chokaro AP-only as well?

[ancienthighway]

In both games the Adv Chokaro are capture only.

[DrJambi]

Any carrier and few fighters armed with PBG will destroy anything at the speed of destroyers, but you may get bored because everything becomes too easy, things die like flies, even 1 M3 with PBG can kill an M7 in less than 15 seconds.

[lostone1993]

Correction from the sideline: The M7C-class is exclusive to X3AP, and is nowhere to be found in TC. If you want a good allround ship and you don't want to take the step up to AP, then the Hyperion Vanguard is first on a very short list of viable ships. It has the best maneuverability of any M6 in TC, it's one of, if not the best shielded M6, it's among the faster M6-class ships out there, it has a huge cargo bay and as RAVEN.myst already mentioned it can dock two fighters.

Maybe I should download AP then hmm, It is only gathering digital dust on my GOG shelf

Sounds like the Hyperion Vanguard is a match for me

Actually there are 2 M7C class frigates in TC, the Split Panther and the Griffon. The Griffon is only available as a plot reward though.

Another route that you might consider is using a TM.

The Yaki Chokaro is a great mission ship with a very roomy cargo hold, three fighter bays, and with it's Advanced variant is two of the three fastest TMs. Load it up with your favorite M3 and M5, and there's only a few missions it can't do.

The OTAS Zephyrus is slightly slower, the most shielding, but the smallest cargo hold. The Zephyrus was designed for self defense and light attack; it's the only TM with frontal guns along with the 2 turret standard for the class and has the widest selection of missiles of any TM.

thanks, I will keep those ships in mind just want to check them out in game first

Correction from the sideline: The M7C-class is exclusive to X3AP, and is nowhere to be found in TC.

Oh, crap - I wasn't paying attention, didn't realise we were talking TC (even though it's clearly stated...) - thanks for spotting that, Zaitsev My apologies, Lostone1993 - the closest you will get to M7C in X3TC are the Argon Gryffon (plot reward, but if you script you probably can get it in regqardless) and the Split Panther (which is disgustingly good as an all-rounder, anyway.)

Also, Ancienthighway makes an excellent point, regarding the TM class of ships. These I consider a must-have in the early game (and plenty handy later on, too) - they serve as micro-carriers and excellent mobile bases of operations, and are more docking-versatile than M7Cs - the latter are capital ships, after all, and require large docks, while TMs can dock at any station.

its cool, I have been trying to remember stuff as well but I have not played TC in about 5 years. I might try to download AP later gonna take a while though

Any carrier and few fighters armed with PBG will destroy anything at the speed of destroyers, but you may get bored because everything becomes too easy, things die like flies, even 1 M3 with PBG can kill an M7 in less than 15 seconds.

If I remember correctly, PBG Plasma Burst Generators mainly a Pirate weapon and shoot like a flame thower ?

I will have none of those my ship will have good stuff but not be overpowered so it should not be easy

[Zaitsev]

If I remember correctly, PBG Plasma Burst Generators mainly a Pirate weapon and shoot like a flame thower ?

Yep, that's the one. Only the most overpowered fighter weapon in all of TC

[RainerPrem]

Hi,

Been a while since I have played x3TC and feel like playing again I need some help updating a script now to cut things short, I made a script for x2 to give me a head start. it spawned a trading station, a kitted out trade ship, M6 and M5

I don't feel like starting from scratch again and so plan to update this, here is my problem I remember enough from x3tc that m6's are kinda useless in a fight so I was wondering if I could get some suggestions for replacement ships and weapons for them.

I am not looking to be overpowered, I am just a useless fighter pilot and don't feel like trading for 20+ hours just to get a ship that can give ma a chance of wining

seriously though I can be in a m3 and lose to a m5

I was not sure if this should go in the scripting subforum or not

not wanting to criticize you, but you can always choose a start supporting your playing style without "cheating."

Want an M6? Start as Terran Commander.
Want an M3? In TC there are several abandoned ones lying around.
Want a Hyperion? Start as Poisoned Paranid; after one game day or so, you will own one.

cu
Rainer

[RAVEN.myst]

A thought occurs to me: in X2, the mouse interface was appallingly bad for combat, and the game really required a joystick. This problem persisted into X3 Reunion, but since X3TC, the mouse interface has been vastly improved, adopting a model more similar to that used in Freelancer. Have you perhaps tried using it in X3TC? I ask this because, if unaware of the improvement, you may well be using keyboard-only (I know I did, pretty much, when re-playing X2 recently, since my joystick died some time ago), and unaware of the much finer mouse control offered in X3TC and X3AP...

Rainer's ideas are sound, and I'd like to expand on one of them in particular: whenever I play as Terran, especially if I want to do some trading and/or station building, I take the Terran Commander start, trade in the M6 Katana that I get and buy myself pretty much whatever I need. (This works better in X3AP, though, as in the latter title you can buy Terran stations from the start, instead of having to first finish multiple plots.) One thing to keep in mind, though: the Terran Commander start (in X3TC, not in X3AP) is unlocked by completing the main plot with any character first (though there's a way to unlock game starts by editing the registry.)

Also, the Humble Merchant is (in my opinion) the most privileged start: you begin with TWO ships, a freighter and a scout. This allows the player to explore and/or salvage, and trade simultaneously - it's my favourite if I'm looking for a fast start as Argon.

[lostone1993]

Hi,

not wanting to criticize you, but you can always choose a start supporting your playing style without "cheating."

Want an M6? Start as Terran Commander.
Want an M3? In TC there are several abandoned ones lying around.
Want a Hyperion? Start as Poisoned Paranid; after one game day or so, you will own one.

cu
Rainer

nah its cool, I know its cheating
I would start as Terran Commander but it is not unlocked, I have not touched TC in 5 years and have swapped computers a few times since then

A thought occurs to me: in X2, the mouse interface was appallingly bad for combat, and the game really required a joystick. This problem persisted into X3 Reunion, but since X3TC, the mouse interface has been vastly improved, adopting a model more similar to that used in Freelancer. Have you perhaps tried using it in X3TC? I ask this because, if unaware of the improvement, you may well be using keyboard-only (I know I did, pretty much, when re-playing X2 recently, since my joystick died some time ago), and unaware of the much finer mouse control offered in X3TC and X3AP...

Rainer's ideas are sound, and I'd like to expand on one of them in particular: whenever I play as Terran, especially if I want to do some trading and/or station building, I take the Terran Commander start, trade in the M6 Katana that I get and buy myself pretty much whatever I need. (This works better in X3AP, though, as in the latter title you can buy Terran stations from the start, instead of having to first finish multiple plots.) One thing to keep in mind, though: the Terran Commander start (in X3TC, not in X3AP) is unlocked by completing the main plot with any character first (though there's a way to unlock game starts by editing the registry.)

Also, the Humble Merchant is (in my opinion) the most privileged start: you begin with TWO ships, a freighter and a scout. This allows the player to explore and/or salvage, and trade simultaneously - it's my favourite if I'm looking for a fast start as Argon.

I was playing earlier actually and started asking myself was the controls this bad before?

Ok mind if I ask a different question then. if you played as humble merchant whats the best way to advance ? if I remember correctly all I did was transport ore mainly

I am beginning to think to play a normal start for a while(I will properly go humble merchant) and leave the script for if it starts to get too boring (or monotonous) for me

[RAVEN.myst]

Well, as you no doubt realise, your options in this game are nearly limitless, so here are a couple of ideas. I'll assume that you take the Humble Merchant start, but some of it applies to most starts.

An excellent money-spinner for the very early game if you start in the Argon capital district (which the HM start does), is the booze run in Herron's Nebula. I'll leave you to figure out what I mean, but will say this much: for this job, the Disco is pretty good, once you've given it some cargo-space upgrades, because it's fast, thus reducing the chances of you being pulled over and searched.

As for what to do with that lovely Mercury... First off, you will want to invest in engine upgrades, obviously. As you say, ore is quite a common commodity to trade in early on - you can buy it for as little as 50 and sell it for as much as 200+, so that's "quite" a healthy profit margin Also, don't underestimate the value of occasional high-volume ECell hauls - besides being modestly lucrative, they will help to lubricate the local economy, getting production going and thus stimulating both healthy supply of products (thus cheap prices to buy at) and demand for resources (thus high prices to sell at.) Back in Reunion, silicon used to be consistently very profitable, but in TC and AP this is no longer the case. However, when you CAN get it for minimum price, it's a good idea to look around for a decent place to offload it.

An important aspect is to drop satellites in as many sectors as possible (the Argon capital district is great for early commerce, given how tightly packed those sectors are.) These satellites cost money, so you will want to prioritise their placement, and roll them out as profits permit. Having vision in as many sectors as possible will allow you to spot good deals remotely, while you flit about in your Disco Speaking of which, other than exploring and deal-finding, what's there to do in a scout ship? Well, what I like to do at this stage of the game is to keep an eye on the sectors bordering pirate space, especially Elena's Fortune and Atreus's Clouds - skirmishes between local forces/traders and pirates take place in these areas from time to time; occasionally, if you are lucky, a pirate capital ship will fly in and start causing havoc, and will eventually be evicted by the local military. In the interim, odds are that large amounts of loot end up floating in space, as long as you were present in the sector when the fighting went down. Collecting and selling missiles (to the Military Outpost, another reason that those 2 sectors are good for this) often accounts for a substantial portion of my early income.

You will want to start delegating and automating your economy as soon as possible. An intermediate step in this can be to use the so-called MORT (Manually Operated Remote Trader) command set (Remote Best Buy, Remote Best Sell - requires your freighter to have Best Buy/Sale Locator, Trade Command Software 2, and probably one or both of: Nav Comm Software, Trading System Extension. EXTREMELY HIGHLY recommended: Jumpdrive.) With this setup, you can pick wares and regions to carry out once-off trades. So, for example, you can order your freighter to buy for best price ore, looking within X sectors of a designated sector, then once that's happened you can order that ware to be sold off for best price within a certain radius of another designated location. There are other (manual run, for example) commands that can come in handy, in various situations.

Something you may consider is getting Commodity Logistics Software 2 and setting up an automated trade run, as the first step toward truly hands-off trading (alternatively, there's the MUCH more expensive but more autonomous Trade Command Software 3, which gives you access to Single-Sector, Multi-Sector, and Universe autonomous trading functions.) Using CLS2 requires a fair understanding of the local economy in order to design a route that will train your pilot quickly enough (you can trade off profit margin for faster training, too, as an option.) This, however, is too large a topic for here.

At this point, your options really start to multiply. You can build yourself a factory, for instance, and by this stage you will be familiar enough with the local trends to be able to identify potential holes to exploit. In the area I've been using for this example (Argon Prime neighbourhood), there is almost always a serious energy shortage - the problem is not so much one of abundance, but one of distribution. Hence, a CLS2 freighter running energy from local suppliers to local clients can be quite lucrative, as well as driving up demand for cahoonas and ore. There is also respectable demand for ore in this area, usually. I find that local factories are usually adequately fed, so investing in food industry here is *usually* not viable. (The area South of Seizewell usually wants for agricultural products, specifically sunrise flowers and to a lesser extent swamp plants; the NW Boron enclave usually has need of BoFu; the map-central Boron district around Lucky Planets usually has an abundance of ore that isn't getting to its local customers; the Teladi area around Profit Centre Alpha is often hungry for Nostrop Oil, as its supply is cut off to the South by the Xenon sector there - paying close attention to factory stock levels will, over time, reveal exploitable trends.)

Personally, I like to develop my economy in parallel with advancing the plots - my growing economy helps to pay for tools to help me with the campaign - there's no law that dictates that the campaign MUST be completed as a pauper in a fighter, after all! At some point, I get the Hub, which then in turn adds to my economy - but that's a whole other story for another day! (I've been encouraged to post a guide on how to turn the Hub into a credit-making machine, which I may write in the near future if I manage to get bored enough somehow to take the time for it )



EDIT: PS and "disclaimer": Please understand that, given how many ways there are to do things in this game, this is by no means the only or the best way to go about things - it's just meant as a set of ideas/suggestions to either use or to inspire plans/methods of your own.

[ancienthighway]

Back in Reunion, silicon used to be consistently very profitable, but in TC and AP this is no longer the case. However, when you CAN get it for minimum price, it's a good idea to look around for a decent place to offload it.

It's best to find that place to sell the silicon before you buy it. I had a TS full of silicon bought at minimum price that became a door stop until I had a station that needed it.

[RAVEN.myst]

Back in Reunion, silicon used to be consistently very profitable, but in TC and AP this is no longer the case. However, when you CAN get it for minimum price, it's a good idea to look around for a decent place to offload it.

It's best to find that place to sell the silicon before you buy it. I had a TS full of silicon bought at minimum price that became a door stop until I had a station that needed it.

Yup, that's what I meant - I've had a similar problem in TC and/or AP: it's also a good idea to check HOW MUCH a station will buy - I've had cases where I loaded up with Si, sent off to sell, only to find that the station will only take ~half of what I brought, with nary another customer to be found heheheh

[lostone1993]

snip

thanks for the tips, I have been using of them and will use more later first thing I did after a few trade loads was buy engine and rudder upgrades for my mercury and a duplex + trading system extension for my discoverer while running some space fuel

so I can explore sectors while trading with my mercury at the moment just a simple trade loop of ECells, Mine, Ore repeat seems to be good money

almost feel like role playing as a space fuel runner just have my hidden factory's and legions of discoverers selling

Back in Reunion, silicon used to be consistently very profitable, but in TC and AP this is no longer the case. However, when you CAN get it for minimum price, it's a good idea to look around for a decent place to offload it.

It's best to find that place to sell the silicon before you buy it. I had a TS full of silicon bought at minimum price that became a door stop until I had a station that needed it.

Back in Reunion, silicon used to be consistently very profitable, but in TC and AP this is no longer the case. However, when you CAN get it for minimum price, it's a good idea to look around for a decent place to offload it.

It's best to find that place to sell the silicon before you buy it. I had a TS full of silicon bought at minimum price that became a door stop until I had a station that needed it.

Yup, that's what I meant - I've had a similar problem in TC and/or AP: it's also a good idea to check HOW MUCH a station will buy - I've had cases where I loaded up with Si, sent off to sell, only to find that the station will only take ~half of what I brought, with nary another customer to be found heheheh

I know that quite well I remember this when I first start playing, I ended up with a "junk" mercury full of stuff I bought cheap but could not sell