EnglishGermanFrenchRussianItalianSpanish
Log inRegister
 
[X3LU] Mayhem 2.2.4
Post new topic Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 190, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Jonzac



MEDAL

Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 259 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 8. Jan 18, 19:18    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Joubarbe wrote:
This auto-consumption shit is really stupid. In NPC docks, products are automatically consumed, and the consumption speed is always the same. So I'm gonna revert the change I did about maximum storage. NPC and Player docks will have the same values.

Besides, all Sanctuaries are going to make their own e-cells (1000 per minute), and the perk will triple this value.


Joubarbe,

It sounds like you are adding automatic e-cell production to Sanctuaries, however, I would recommend the Ankaris Crystal Free SSP script or your own that removes the crystal requirement for SSPs.

I have it installed (with no issues) and it is a perfect balance of eCell production and build requirements. One SSP isn't enough to run a 12 station sector, but that is when a perk for eCell production would be useful. I like the fact that I have to spend a station slot for production, I need to spend time and resources to build it and then I need to move it around. I personally think is a perfect "middle ground" that makes Mayhem perfect.

Just a thought

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hector0x





Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 308 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 8. Jan 18, 19:32    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@Hegbork: I think you must have had some serious drain of resources to build all that stations, to build more stations + the UTs, to support all those stations, which in turn need more stations (rocket equation at it's finest)
Those resources were missing to produce important stuff when the big "empty dock happening" occured. Smile

For me the most important resources are the building materials, because you can make everything else out of them. Station slots are precious in the beginning, so it should be a 12 slot sector to start with. I also often dimantle factories if the stockpile of a certain good gets to big and replace it with something i need more at that time. (set DA to ignore station and rescue the leftover goods)

If you compare availability after the docks are empty there are 3 types of building materials
ENERGY - very common, full factories, still common in docks, can be bought easily
ORE - medium availability, empty docks, but full factories are common enough to buy it in quantity
CLOTH, RASTAR and TELADIANIUM - very rare, empty docks, empty factories, hard to get hold of large amounts fast

So my buildorder for the 1st sector is:
1: scruffin farm (because you need food and it's the cheapest, you can dismantle it later when you have thousands of them stored)
2: teladianium foundry (it only needs energy)
3: 1st cloth and rastar loop (4 stations)
4: 2nd teladianium foundry
5: 2nd cloth and rastar loop
6: 3rd teladianium foundry

Food: in my game (day 3, 6 sectors) meatsteaks and nostrop are plentyful in argon and teladi docks so i haven't build a single factory

Money wise i don't believe in UTs and haven't used them. The corporate missions give plenty in the beginning. Execute triggers like half an hour for 1 free million. Collect yields like 13 mil for a small reputation penalty. Steal often gives a ship with weapons worth 3 million for free.
Even now i can balance out my expenses with missions (defend, destroy, weaken) but have claimed a mining sector recently to generate passive income.

The reap shuttle to salvage is day one's number two priority after the scruffin farm. When i saw an invasion i instantly dropped a satellite and also one on each race border with xenon, yaki, pirates. Some capital weapons from invasion leftovers - another 4 million for free.

The tech ship parts (chip, computer, tubes) can be tricky because when you start to need much of them they are already drained from the docks and factories are always low on stock. So it's better to make sure you produce all three of them, even if it's on low quantity.
The trade run command can help here. Ships will automatically refuel and try to collect all those little stocks and squeeze as much as possible out of the economy. It's expensive, but you can get quite a bit and it works for shields, satellites and lasers too.

Oh, and if you want to produce lasers and missles - build BOFU loops like crazy! I'm almost dedicated to put 6 bofu labs exclusively in a single sector Very Happy


_________________
"Hard pounding, gentlemen. Let's see who pounds the longest." - Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington, British general and Prime Minister
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joubarbe





Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 2778 on topic
Location: France
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 8. Jan 18, 21:06    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Jonzac wrote:
Joubarbe wrote:
This auto-consumption shit is really stupid. In NPC docks, products are automatically consumed, and the consumption speed is always the same. So I'm gonna revert the change I did about maximum storage. NPC and Player docks will have the same values.

Besides, all Sanctuaries are going to make their own e-cells (1000 per minute), and the perk will triple this value.


Joubarbe,

It sounds like you are adding automatic e-cell production to Sanctuaries, however, I would recommend the Ankaris Crystal Free SSP script or your own that removes the crystal requirement for SSPs.

I have it installed (with no issues) and it is a perfect balance of eCell production and build requirements. One SSP isn't enough to run a 12 station sector, but that is when a perk for eCell production would be useful. I like the fact that I have to spend a station slot for production, I need to spend time and resources to build it and then I need to move it around. I personally think is a perfect "middle ground" that makes Mayhem perfect.

Just a thought


I'm not a big fan of this solution. A better solution is to have a good logistics system to handle the e-cells distribution. And I'm working on that. Maybe I'm wrong Smile

I can say for sure that if I do a Mayhem 3, the jumpdrive will be removed from the game. This thing is not a good idea, especially with Mayhem, where it's all about conquering sectors. I imagine scouts and real defense; not some magic teleportation from anywhere. I'm saying this, because handling logistics without jumpdrive will sure be a challenge.


_________________
Mayhem - Satellites Monitoring - Internal Distribution Network - ADS (Joubarbian Edition) - Bounty Board - The Joubarbian Toolkit - EasyConnect
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hector0x





Joined: 18 Nov 2013
Posts: 308 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 8. Jan 18, 22:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Sounds interesting. The player would need some sort of small, unarmed Sohnen command ship with built in jump drive. Or at least the option to bail out of his ship and respawn at a sanctuary.
Otherwise you could end up in impossible death traps with enemies that are faster than you.


_________________
"Hard pounding, gentlemen. Let's see who pounds the longest." - Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington, British general and Prime Minister
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SirNukes





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 84 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 8. Jan 18, 22:48    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Joubarbe wrote:
I can say for sure that if I do a Mayhem 3, the jumpdrive will be removed from the game.

The vast majority of my time in X games has been with a no-jumpdrive rule for my ships (on top of others like no-strafe and such), so I think that is a great idea. The main problem I've had with complete removal is that a lot of the NPC military scripts strongly rely on a jumpdrive to get around, so rapid response forces and such end up taking many hours to respond to incursions and often die along the way. I don't know how much that would be an issue for LU/Mayhem.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
memeics





Joined: 26 Sep 2010



PostPosted: Mon, 8. Jan 18, 22:50    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I'd love to see a balanced X mod without jumpdrive, but because of the huge issues still remaining in OOS vs IS combat I don't think that can be done very well. Simply jumping to a sector to have IS combat gives more options to be tactical and completely changes the outcome of the battle. Even if I just do MLCC completely automated combat, the are huge differences between IS and OSS outcome of the same battle (ex. losses for smaller ships, missile use and counter). It also makes Emergency Jump useless (unless you want to keep that one in).

Changing subject: what is the status of this mod? Is it considered complete, fully playable, any known (big) issues and workarounds/things I should be avoiding?


_________________
X3LU 1.5.2/1.7.0 Youtube series with: IEX 1.5b + LUVi, SIaF r7 (previously also used Phanon Plus 4.02, Revelation Plus 1.04, Diverse Game Starts - LU Edition)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
idont





Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 11 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 8. Jan 18, 22:54    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hi Joubarbe, I wanted to tell you that this mod is amazing.

But, of course like other people I'm posting because I have things to complain about. It's all pretty minor though, since this mod feels remarkably polished.
  • If I build a Goner Temple, it lets me dock there, and appears to offer a police license and Salvage Insurances, but I can't actually buy them.
  • If a sanctuary is producing something in a loop and I want to stop it, I have to cancel and thus loose whatever resources the product needed. I would like to be able to say to finish the current cycle but don't start another one.
  • I often see pirates hang out in a normal race sector and kill all ships, but this doesn't seem to count as an invasion in the War Ministry. Is this intentional? It seems weird to see them completely dominate a sector for hours without conquering it.
  • The vanilla Pirate sectors still have non-Pirate stations at the game start, which makes conquering those sectors a bit awkward, and doesn't really fit with how Pirates conquer sectors during the game.
  • I sometimes have a group of pirates enter one of my sectors, but then just sit at the edge outside the range of my OWP without achieving anything. It makes sense they don't just suicide against the OWP, but shouldn't they do something?
  • On a similar note, I sometimes see pirate M4s or Xenon Ns that seem to fly circles around the outside of sectors. This again mostly feels tedious to clean up. Are those ships supposed to do anything useful?
  • I'm actually not sure if this is a vanilla bug, but when I do a Xenon Invasion mission, sometimes one of the Ns I'm supposed to kill instead leaves the sector. The mission doesn't end until I kill it though, which is awkward since the mission also auto cancels if I leave the sector being invaded. Is it possible to remove any ships that leave the sector from the target list?
  • Is there a reason the research stations even have docking ports? This isn't really a problem, I'm just wondering if I'm missing something.
  • Is there any way to repair stations? Especially for OWP this would be useful. Or do I just delete it and rebuild it?
  • The message you get when you do a corporate rescue mission just mentions people being on the run, but not where they are or what ship they ran into, which means that if one of my UTs happened to dock somewhere targeted by a rescue mission, I have no clue where those people are.
  • I can do corporate rescue, steal and especially execute missions without hurting my race rep at all. This feels too easy, surely at least executing people should annoy governments?
  • Is there anyway to hide stations in the property view? Since we can't build complexes, there's lots of separate factories cluttering up the overview.


@Hegbork I don't have a full survival guide, but some thoughts on your game
  • As you've noticed the NPC economy is pretty broken with everybody killing each others traders. But this also means that SPP are the one NPC factory that will usually be full, since the NPC ones are magic and always produce, but nobody can use the energy. So I think building your own SPPs is just a mistake.
  • Once you're big enough that the NPC SPPs are no longer enough, there's a sanctuary perk that makes them produce 2k energy per minute. That's enough to run 2 sectors with 12 factories each, with a little jump fuel left over. And this way you don't need any supporting factories to feed a SPP.
  • You can build your own mines, but that feels like a waste. You can also stick mobile miners in a friendly races Sector, and have a courier hit all your mobile mining bases to collect the output. That way you don't waste precious factory slots, and only have to pay a little jump fuel. Just stick to 4 miners per sector to avoid any nastiness.
  • UTs should make a reasonable amount of money, but more importantly the help fix the NPC economy. This makes for a slightly weird game where at the start all the docks are full, then the economy crashes and you can't buy anything, until your UT fleet gets big enough and the economy recovers. But if you are aware of that trough you can deal with it. It's also not a quick fix, since you need quite a few traders to be noticeable, and they take a few hours to get trained. But if you start building UTs soon enough, the NPC economy will never crash completely, just quite badly.
  • So you should try and pre buy stuff on day 1, even if you don't need it right now. Your sanctuary has a lot of space, it doesn't do you any good empty.
  • It's probably still a good idea on day 1 to manually control 1 or 2 TS that feed specific NPC factories, especially those that produce your building materials. This is kind of tedious, but means your shortages should never be crippling.
  • Since many of the vanilla missions are re-enabled, you can do some taxi missions for nearly infinite money.
  • If you're scared of the OCV, you can delay the first invasion until the end of the second day by not expanding on day 1. I'm not sure how necessary this is, but it makes for an easier start.
  • Using M6 is okay, but Litcube greatly improved the ability of fighters with the bounce script, since they no longer fight by trying to headbut capitals.
  • For an even better experience give them missiles. Way to many players just ignore them since they're somewhat tedious to use in vanilla, but now you have a sanctuary that can produces an endless amount of missiles. Instead of using a dozen M6, try using 20 M3s filled with missiles, and you'll probably crush that first OCV invasion.
  • The point of the OWP seems to be to give enemies some big shields to pound away at. They're pretty good at that, just don't expect them to do anything without a fleet to support them.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sirrobert





Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 1046 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 8. Jan 18, 22:54    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Alternative jump suggestion: Perhaps making the Jumpdrive exclusive to huge military ships? If that's possible. It would still force advanced logistics, but I feel like no jumping at all would introduce far to much wait to the game.


_________________
9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm crazy. The 10th is singing the music from Tetris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hegbork





Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 8 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Tue, 9. Jan 18, 01:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

idont wrote:

@Hegbork I don't have a full survival guide, but some thoughts on your game
  • As you've noticed the NPC economy is pretty broken with everybody killing each others traders. But this also means that SPP are the one NPC factory that will usually be full, since the NPC ones are magic and always produce, but nobody can use the energy. So I think building your own SPPs is just a mistake.
  • Once you're big enough that the NPC SPPs are no longer enough, there's a sanctuary perk that makes them produce 2k energy per minute. That's enough to run 2 sectors with 12 factories each, with a little jump fuel left over. And this way you don't need any supporting factories to feed a SPP.


Yeah, this seems like the conclusion. I just started a fresh playthrough again. Let's see if that works.

Quote:

  • You can build your own mines, but that feels like a waste. You can also stick mobile miners in a friendly races Sector, and have a courier hit all your mobile mining bases to collect the output. That way you don't waste precious factory slots, and only have to pay a little jump fuel. Just stick to 4 miners per sector to avoid any nastiness.


  • That's usually the use for the second Elephant I build. Although with the ... nastiness ... I don't think Elephants are necessary for this anymore. In 2.1 I used to have 20ish miners per sector in a few sectors. I really dislike the amounts of clicks for setting up the courier though. I think one of these days I'll fix the courier setup to have buttons for "load mining ship", "unload mining ship".

    Quote:

  • UTs should make a reasonable amount of money, but more importantly the help fix the NPC economy. This makes for a slightly weird game where at the start all the docks are full, then the economy crashes and you can't buy anything, until your UT fleet gets big enough and the economy recovers. But if you are aware of that trough you can deal with it. It's also not a quick fix, since you need quite a few traders to be noticeable, and they take a few hours to get trained. But if you start building UTs soon enough, the NPC economy will never crash completely, just quite badly.


  • In two attempts I had over 40 traders running around. Didn't help. I know it's supposed to, but the economy just ground to a halt anyway. In this attempt I'm doing to run OK Traders in the economy mode (it gives priority to trading with stalled factories). Let's see if that helps.

    Quote:

  • It's probably still a good idea on day 1 to manually control 1 or 2 TS that feed specific NPC factories, especially those that produce your building materials. This is kind of tedious, but means your shortages should never be crippling.


  • In fact, I just finished a run to feed advanced satellite factories. Can't trade without eyes.

    Quote:

  • Using M6 is okay, but Litcube greatly improved the ability of fighters with the bounce script, since they no longer fight by trying to headbut capitals.
  • For an even better experience give them missiles. Way to many players just ignore them since they're somewhat tedious to use in vanilla, but now you have a sanctuary that can produces an endless amount of missiles. Instead of using a dozen M6, try using 20 M3s filled with missiles, and you'll probably crush that first OCV invasion.


  • Oh, I know. When my empire is sufficiently big the only ships I build are Emeus, Tokyo and fighters filled to the brim with missiles. Standard LU ends with pushing the mlcc go button in OCV sectors and reading a book because the engine can not survive that amount of fighters and missiles without becoming a slide show.

    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    Joubarbe





    Joined: 31 Oct 2006
    Posts: 2778 on topic
    Location: France
    Thank you for registering your game
    PostPosted: Tue, 9. Jan 18, 03:31    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

    Sirrobert wrote:
    Alternative jump suggestion: Perhaps making the Jumpdrive exclusive to huge military ships? If that's possible. It would still force advanced logistics, but I feel like no jumping at all would introduce far to much wait to the game.


    You would have a special Marvel superpower that gives you a reason to be the leader: the ability to teleport inside any of your ships. Pilots would then be switched.

    @memeics: you should wait 2.3.0. Please see the changelog in first page. The OOS vs IS combat problem can be reduced. Some cheaty process, invisible to the player, can be implemented.

    @idont: thanks for the feedback. More stuff to fix!


    _________________
    Mayhem - Satellites Monitoring - Internal Distribution Network - ADS (Joubarbian Edition) - Bounty Board - The Joubarbian Toolkit - EasyConnect
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    Joubarbe





    Joined: 31 Oct 2006
    Posts: 2778 on topic
    Location: France
    Thank you for registering your game
    PostPosted: Tue, 9. Jan 18, 13:04    Post subject: Reply with quote Print



    New Sanctuary Manager (rewritten from scratch) and Logistics system. (that's two screenshots in one)

    To profit from the new logistics system, you just have to assign a Dock Agent to the Sanctuary. New DAs do not require Station Agent Software and they take the most suitable job for them. It's a little tricky to setup, but should give a lot more control over your DAs.

    There are two tasks: Acquire and Distribute. And three sources/destinations: Factories, Sanctuaries and Trade.


    _________________
    Mayhem - Satellites Monitoring - Internal Distribution Network - ADS (Joubarbian Edition) - Bounty Board - The Joubarbian Toolkit - EasyConnect
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    Sirrobert





    Joined: 21 Aug 2013
    Posts: 1046 on topic

    Thank you for registering your game
    PostPosted: Tue, 9. Jan 18, 14:43    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

    Joubarbe wrote:
    You would have a special Marvel superpower that gives you a reason to be the leader: the ability to teleport inside any of your ships. Pilots would then be switched.

    @memeics: you should wait 2.3.0. Please see the changelog in first page. The OOS vs IS combat problem can be reduced. Some cheaty process, invisible to the player, can be implemented.

    @idont: thanks for the feedback. More stuff to fix!


    Neat, that could work even better.


    _________________
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm crazy. The 10th is singing the music from Tetris
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    VincentTH



    MEDALMEDALMEDAL

    Joined: 06 Nov 2002
    Posts: 5493 on topic

    Thank you for registering your game
    PostPosted: Tue, 9. Jan 18, 19:49    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

    Jonzac wrote:
    Joubarbe wrote:
    This auto-consumption shit is really stupid. In NPC docks, products are automatically consumed, and the consumption speed is always the same. So I'm gonna revert the change I did about maximum storage. NPC and Player docks will have the same values.

    Besides, all Sanctuaries are going to make their own e-cells (1000 per minute), and the perk will triple this value.


    Joubarbe,

    It sounds like you are adding automatic e-cell production to Sanctuaries, however, I would recommend the Ankaris Crystal Free SSP script or your own that removes the crystal requirement for SSPs.

    I have it installed (with no issues) and it is a perfect balance of eCell production and build requirements. One SSP isn't enough to run a 12 station sector, but that is when a perk for eCell production would be useful. I like the fact that I have to spend a station slot for production, I need to spend time and resources to build it and then I need to move it around. I personally think is a perfect "middle ground" that makes Mayhem perfect.

    Just a thought


    Me too, I feel adding EC production to Sanctuary is too cheezy. The perk is OK, since you have to pay for some conveniences.

    The reason people don't want to build SPP is the overhead of 2.x Crystal Fab that would require at least 7 slots (8 if counting the Silicon mine) in order to build one SPP. But when mid game comes, most SPPs are taken down, or reside in hostile sectors, the need to EC become more pressing.

    Anyway, whatever Joubarbe come up with is fine, but I believe no-Xtal SPP would be better.

    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
    maxblub





    Joined: 14 Dec 2017
    Posts: 4 on topic

    Thank you for registering your game
    PostPosted: Tue, 9. Jan 18, 21:09    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

    If someone plans to start a new game should he wait till 2.3? Any timeline on expectation? Razz

    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    Joubarbe





    Joined: 31 Oct 2006
    Posts: 2778 on topic
    Location: France
    Thank you for registering your game
    PostPosted: Tue, 9. Jan 18, 21:11    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

    3-4 weeks.


    _________________
    Mayhem - Satellites Monitoring - Internal Distribution Network - ADS (Joubarbian Edition) - Bounty Board - The Joubarbian Toolkit - EasyConnect
    Back to top
    View user's profile Send private message
    Display posts from previous:   
    Post new topic Reply to topic Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 190, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195  Next
     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum
    You cannot attach files in this forum
    You cannot download files in this forum
    Control Panel
    Login Data
    The time now is Fri, 19. Jan 18, 15:32

    All times are GMT + 2 Hours


    Board Security

    Copyright © EGOSOFT 1989-2018
    Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
    Template created by Avatar & BurnIt!
    Debug: page generation = 0.18378 seconds, sql queries = 29