My thoughts after 10ish months of not playing

General discussions about X Rebirth.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

User avatar
yoyolll
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri, 29. Nov 13, 18:38

Post by yoyolll » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 13:29

Nanook wrote:Well, 'trucking' is the wrong word, too. That implies that the player is simply hauling goods for someone else who made the deals and handles the money. 'Trucking', as you call it, is only a part of the whole operation a player performs when buying, hauling and selling wares (not to mention having to watch out for pirates and other potential enemies enroute).

And for the record, there are a lot of players who enjoy the relaxation of that kind of activity as a break from what can be the frenetic pace of combat and other activities, myself included. So anyone who claims that those who enjoy, at least occasionally, flying a slow transport, are a 'miniscule minority' are simply wrong. I say, get over yourselves. Your way isn't the only way to play an X game. :roll:
I enjoyed "free trading" too, but I also enjoyed actual trucking. Being paid to transport wares (or people). I didn't find it boring at all, I was a guy with a ship trying to make a living and that was the job that was offered to me. Made me feel like Malcolm Reynolds. I don't like that they took that option away.
Intel Pentium II 233 Mhz
128 MB ram
i740 8 mb @ 220 Mhz
20gb HDD

User avatar
Sandalpocalypse
Posts: 4447
Joined: Tue, 2. Dec 03, 22:28
x4

Post by Sandalpocalypse » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 13:46

The term 'trader' was always used for the rest of the X series. There was never any discussion that *I* recall about how that terminology was incorrect, and that they should really refer to themselves as truckers. Instead, apparently people now want to shift the goalposts, so what Rebirth is offering is *real* trade, and they are trying to rewrite history by dismissing the rest of the X series trading as something else.

Myself, I'd come up with a new term for Rebirth trading - if you don't do any trading yourself, but order your captains to? Isn't that more appropriately called trade *management*?
The vast majority of trade conducted in the x series is 'trade management' by this definition. Rebirth clearly has trading. It's the necessity of defining what people feel is missing that has led to the debate over terminology.

The true irony here is that Rebirth was constructed to cater more to people who want to fly a ship than want to manage things.
I enjoyed "free trading" too, but I also enjoyed actual trucking. Being paid to transport wares (or people). I didn't find it boring at all, I was a guy with a ship trying to make a living and that was the job that was offered to me. Made me feel like Malcolm Reynolds. I don't like that they took that option away.
Malcolm Reynolds didn't haul 10,000 tons of goods, which is what even a Gigurum transport can hold. He dealt in smuggled and high end goods, and took risky often illegal jobs. Both of which you can do. >_>
Irrational factors are clearly at work.

eladan
Posts: 7168
Joined: Sat, 7. Jan 06, 16:01
x4

Post by eladan » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 13:52

Sandalpocalypse wrote:The vast majority of trade conducted in the x series is 'trade management' by this definition. Rebirth clearly has trading. It's the necessity of defining what people feel is missing that has led to the debate over terminology.
Granted, though if you used the various bonus pack scripts, there wasn't really much management involved - it was mostly automated.

User avatar
Santi
Moderator (DevNet)
Moderator (DevNet)
Posts: 4046
Joined: Tue, 13. Feb 07, 21:06
x4

Post by Santi » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 14:03

With the changes to missions rewards and the new crafting feature, trading and transporting people/documents/illegal items from the Skunk is a totally viable career path for Rebirth, so if that is what you like, you can do "trucking/trading" in Rebirth.
A por ellos que son pocos y cobardes

BlackRain
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Posts: 7406
Joined: Mon, 15. Dec 03, 18:53
x4

Post by BlackRain » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 14:33

yoyolll wrote:
Nanook wrote:Well, 'trucking' is the wrong word, too. That implies that the player is simply hauling goods for someone else who made the deals and handles the money. 'Trucking', as you call it, is only a part of the whole operation a player performs when buying, hauling and selling wares (not to mention having to watch out for pirates and other potential enemies enroute).

And for the record, there are a lot of players who enjoy the relaxation of that kind of activity as a break from what can be the frenetic pace of combat and other activities, myself included. So anyone who claims that those who enjoy, at least occasionally, flying a slow transport, are a 'miniscule minority' are simply wrong. I say, get over yourselves. Your way isn't the only way to play an X game. :roll:
I enjoyed "free trading" too, but I also enjoyed actual trucking. Being paid to transport wares (or people). I didn't find it boring at all, I was a guy with a ship trying to make a living and that was the job that was offered to me. Made me feel like Malcolm Reynolds. I don't like that they took that option away.
I am just not getting this perspective at all. There are many items, both legal and illegal, that you can transport and sell. You can also transport people. What exactly are you saying? You can do all the things you are asking for here.

pref
Posts: 5589
Joined: Sat, 10. Nov 12, 17:55
x4

Post by pref » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 14:35

Not sure why people need to belittle X3 by creating words that do not cover the facts, but make X3 sound like it was much more stupid/boring then it is.
It wont make XR any better :)

XR trade is just more convenient/automated and requires less knowledge of the world around, and has no urgency since deals are locked. You only need to click the button and it happens in some time.

Managing would mean that you tell your employees what they have to do mid/long term and let them work. Which is exclusively an X3 feature currently.

BlackRain
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Posts: 7406
Joined: Mon, 15. Dec 03, 18:53
x4

Post by BlackRain » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 14:53

pref wrote:Not sure why people need to belittle X3 by creating words that do not cover the facts, but make X3 sound like it was much more stupid/boring then it is.
It wont make XR any better :)

XR trade is just more convenient/automated and requires less knowledge of the world around, and has no urgency since deals are locked. You only need to click the button and it happens in some time.

Managing would mean that you tell your employees what they have to do mid/long term and let them work. Which is exclusively an X3 feature currently.
I hope you are not referring to me. Also, no need to personify X3. X3 was great in its day, now I find it boring. People are allowed to have this opinion and since this person asked for opinions, people are giving them.

Also, I recently told a younger friend to try out X3 and he tried it for a little and was just overwhelmed by it. He would be much better served playing X rebirth and I think a lot of newer players would.

pref
Posts: 5589
Joined: Sat, 10. Nov 12, 17:55
x4

Post by pref » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:20

No not you BlackRain, this trucker-stuff broke the fuse :D

Though i'm not sure being overwhelmed is so bad. I love that when a game offers so much that i don't even know where to start. That part was like a fairy tale for me with X3.
Imo the strongest reason to try X3 first is the (un)likelyness of returning to X3 after XR - it spoils one visually real bad..
Its hard to tell in advance who will like what playstyle in the end, so why not give X3 a go before its too late.
Last edited by pref on Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:23, edited 1 time in total.

BlackRain
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Moderator (Script&Mod)
Posts: 7406
Joined: Mon, 15. Dec 03, 18:53
x4

Post by BlackRain » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:22

pref wrote:No not you BlackRain, this trucker-stuff broke the fuse :D

Though i'm not sure being overwhelmed is so bad. I love that when a game offers so much that i don't even know where to start. That part was like a fairy tale for me with X3.
Imo the strongest reason to try X3 first is the (un)likelyness of returning to X3 after XR - it spoils one visually real bad..
I think a lot of younger players just do not have the patience to get over the hurdles of learning how to play previous X games. I think this is just the reality.

pref
Posts: 5589
Joined: Sat, 10. Nov 12, 17:55
x4

Post by pref » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:26

BlackRain wrote: I think a lot of younger players just do not have the patience to get over the hurdles of learning how to play previous X games. I think this is just the reality.
That might be true, and a bit scary for me even. Guess i really hate current mainstream game trends. Sometimes i get the feeling the aim is to dumb people - while before gaming got so 'industrialized' this was about the opposite.

User avatar
spankahontis
Posts: 3242
Joined: Tue, 2. Nov 10, 21:47
x4

Post by spankahontis » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:32

spankahontis wrote:I wouldn't say it's time for them to move onto an expansion pack yet, unless it improves Rebirth further.
Teladi Outpost DLC is already tested by some people (me)...
It's not fully complete, but Iam sure they will make it until the end of December.
Also, 3.0 beta 6 will come soon.


spankahontis wrote:no SETA

SETA will most probably never return in the future of Egosoft's products, and I would roughly guess that most of the people of the community don't want it anyway.
Me too - I don't want it. Rebirth is much faster than previous games, SETA is not needed.
Also, SETA caused many gameplay flaws, and was nothing but a cheat afterall (as devs say, and I fully agree). Also a total immersion/atmosphere breaker.
Couldn't agree more, it was horrendous, it would of been better if there was a Skyrim way of dealing with time lapses like a bed you could sleep on fotr a set number of hours.

But again this is a fully simulated Universe with stuff happening, I really think it wouldn't be possible to do this.
But SETA what I do know it screwed around with the pathfinding of ships, the worst hit were the Capital Ships that would crash into things like Gates and Stations.
So good riddance I say.
eladan wrote:
Sandalpocalypse wrote:The vast majority of trade conducted in the x series is 'trade management' by this definition. Rebirth clearly has trading. It's the necessity of defining what people feel is missing that has led to the debate over terminology.
Granted, though if you used the various bonus pack scripts, there wasn't really much management involved - it was mostly automated.

I couldn't play TC and AP without the Bonus Pack.
There was no decent trade command software, no MK Boosters on the Vanilla.
The Bonus Pack was a must have for your X3 experience.
Last edited by spankahontis on Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:41, edited 1 time in total.
Ragna-Tech.. Forging a Better Tomorrow!

My most annoying Bugs list 6.0 Beta 4 + [All DLC]
--------------------------------
Nvidium Worshop Animation Enlarge Broken :(
Building Modules causes low frame rate :o
Massive Framerate drops freezing game! :doh:
Save Corrupted Fixed the Crash! :-D

pref
Posts: 5589
Joined: Sat, 10. Nov 12, 17:55
x4

Post by pref » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:40

To be honest i didn't even need SETA that much in X3 (usually just to shorten travels). Instead of SETA i could always find another thread of activity that i could get lost in while the previous progressed slowly.

This is same for XR i guess, but with boost and more tightly packed zones i don't see how it could ever be needed.

User avatar
Spami
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun, 1. Jun 08, 21:32
x4

Post by Spami » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:45

pref wrote:To be honest i didn't even need SETA that much in X3 (usually just to shorten travels). Instead of SETA i could always find another thread of activity that i could get lost in while the previous progressed slowly.

This is same for XR i guess, but with boost and more tightly packed zones i don't see how it could ever be needed.
I had in the previous titles and still have in XR the problem however that I always want to be on the other side of the universe when I just reached the other end again.
In X3 this was a biiiiiiig problem for me, and thanks to SETA and a couple of months later with the jumpdrive solved.

I also think it is a cheat. And for travelling you just grab a boring highway or a capital ship, easy to get in XR
Spami

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.
- Albert Einstein

User avatar
spankahontis
Posts: 3242
Joined: Tue, 2. Nov 10, 21:47
x4

Post by spankahontis » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:47

pref wrote:To be honest i didn't even need SETA that much in X3 (usually just to shorten travels). Instead of SETA i could always find another thread of activity that i could get lost in while the previous progressed slowly.

This is same for XR i guess, but with boost and more tightly packed zones i don't see how it could ever be needed.

Just reminded me of another aspect I hated was the ability to go anywhere I liked on a full tank of Energy Cells.

Took away the 'distance factor' of the travel, it felt like buying a new decor, "I think I will go to Argon Prime, now I will go to Home of Opportunity".
When you've discovered or bought every star chart then that aspect of the game is pretty much over for me.
Spami wrote:
I had in the previous titles and still have in XR the problem however that I always want to be on the other side of the universe when I just reached the other end again.
In X3 this was a biiiiiiig problem for me, and thanks to SETA and a couple of months later with the jumpdrive solved.

I also think it is a cheat. And for travelling you just grab a boring highway or a capital ship, easy to get in XR
It's like taking a bus in the end, also it was 'sort of' a compromise, but not as lightening quick as the X3 method of buying a Jumpdrive, fuelling up and going where you liked.

That's where I think X:Rebirth has improved on.. That sense of scale and distance.
Wasn't a 'Biiing' point A to B instant. You have to travel.

It's only going to get more harder to venture out far in future releases when there is 6, 10, 15 new star systems to explore.
All those new civilisations all that potential profitssss!
Last edited by spankahontis on Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:54, edited 1 time in total.
Ragna-Tech.. Forging a Better Tomorrow!

My most annoying Bugs list 6.0 Beta 4 + [All DLC]
--------------------------------
Nvidium Worshop Animation Enlarge Broken :(
Building Modules causes low frame rate :o
Massive Framerate drops freezing game! :doh:
Save Corrupted Fixed the Crash! :-D

GCU Grey Area
Posts: 7779
Joined: Sat, 14. Feb 04, 23:07
x4

Post by GCU Grey Area » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:52

I like trucking (and I like to truck - sorry, couldn't resist :)).

Anyway, on the whole prefer trucking (if that's what you want to call it) in XR & in my current game spending most of my time aboard one of my freighters. Do miss piloting it myself (particularly activating boosters to ram competitors out of the way while docking) however, aside from that, XR has mostly made this aspect of the game significantly more enjoyable for me. Most of the time my TS was running on autopilot anyway (while I was scanning the map looking for the next deal), so the shift to docking with the transport & ordering a captain around instead wasn't that big of a change really - indeed have become rather fond of having minions to order around.

As for the trading itself - new trade interface is (IMO) much more enjoyable to use than the old style MORT setup. Simply can't go back to Best Buy/Selling Price Locators which can only handle a single sector at a time. I often found it quite tedious scanning the map 1 sector at a time, looking for good deals & keeping notes (i.e. in a notebook, with a pencil) of where my ship(s) should go next.

As for pref's claim of the new trade interface introducing a lack of urgency - I just can't agree, I certainly feel in a rush if I spot a good potential sale on the trade screen. Yes, I could arrange a trade as soon as it appears on the screen & it's assured. However it's often much more profitable identify a supplier, take the time to fly there in person & arrange a better price (i.e. smalltalk and/or station scanning). Sometimes this means I miss out on a good deal because an NPC managed to make the sale while I was still running around talking to NPCs, but the difference in profit can sometimes be measured in the millions so I reckon the time spent is worth the risk.

User avatar
spankahontis
Posts: 3242
Joined: Tue, 2. Nov 10, 21:47
x4

Post by spankahontis » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 17:55

GCU Grey Area wrote:I like trucking (and I like to truck - sorry, couldn't resist :)).

Anyway, on the whole prefer trucking (if that's what you want to call it) in XR & in my current game spending most of my time aboard one of my freighters. Do miss piloting it myself (particularly activating boosters to ram competitors out of the way while docking) however, aside from that, XR has mostly made this aspect of the game significantly more enjoyable for me. Most of the time my TS was running on autopilot anyway (while I was scanning the map looking for the next deal), so the shift to docking with the transport & ordering a captain around instead wasn't that big of a change really - indeed have become rather fond of having minions to order around.

As for the trading itself - new trade interface is (IMO) much more enjoyable to use than the old style MORT setup. Simply can't go back to Best Buy/Selling Price Locators which can only handle a single sector at a time. I often found it quite tedious scanning the map 1 sector at a time, looking for good deals & keeping notes (i.e. in a notebook, with a pencil) of where my ship(s) should go next.

As for pref's claim of the new trade interface introducing a lack of urgency - I just can't agree, I certainly feel in a rush if I spot a good potential sale on the trade screen. Yes, I could arrange a trade as soon as it appears on the screen & it's assured. However it's often much more profitable identify a supplier, take the time to fly there in person & arrange a better price (i.e. smalltalk and/or station scanning). Sometimes this means I miss out on a good deal because an NPC managed to make the sale while I was still running around talking to NPCs, but the difference in profit can sometimes be measured in the millions so I reckon the time spent is worth the risk.

Can't get the song out of my head now! :D

You know what it needs? The ability to operate the turrets, Millennium Falcon style when Pirates come knocking.
Precious cargo that they want, the ability to take a gun and get the scum off your back.

That Mission in X3 Reunion where you could operate the freighters back turrets when pirates were chasing you.
Was pretty exciting.

The Commodity Trade Software in the Bonus Pack really did make the game shine in this aspect with the minions, having staff to hire, managing finances and training your pilots by making them fly XS Ships back and fourth a course then add them to a freighter to shop for goods at a fixed price and sell them on a fixed price.
Ragna-Tech.. Forging a Better Tomorrow!

My most annoying Bugs list 6.0 Beta 4 + [All DLC]
--------------------------------
Nvidium Worshop Animation Enlarge Broken :(
Building Modules causes low frame rate :o
Massive Framerate drops freezing game! :doh:
Save Corrupted Fixed the Crash! :-D

pref
Posts: 5589
Joined: Sat, 10. Nov 12, 17:55
x4

Post by pref » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 18:50

@GCU: There are many factors that can cause a rush (enemies, or other player todos) - after all this is a sandbox. I mean that the trade system in itself gives you all the time your ship needs to get to the destination - thus eliminating the single possibility of failure within the trading game.
Im not sure though i would risk an already lucrative deal just for a +5-10% anyway. But this is not related - you can find any other activity that you want to do before the trade and so miss the opportunity - this has nothing to do with the trading system, just like combat has nothing to do with it.

You can still fail for a near infinite number of reasons or feel urgency.
I dont say it was oh-so-much-better in X3. But it wasn't less then what we have now. I personally feel it required a bit more brain activity from me, but that might be just taste or playstyle.
While doing trades by just browsing XR's list like in a webshop - for me - is much more boring.

GCU Grey Area
Posts: 7779
Joined: Sat, 14. Feb 04, 23:07
x4

Post by GCU Grey Area » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 19:11

pref wrote:Im not sure though i would risk an already lucrative deal just for a +5-10% anyway.
It's not just +5-10%, trade modifiers stack. Doing multiple smalltalks, a bit of station scanning, even squeezing in a mission or 2 to raise overall faction rep (if near a threshold) can make a huge difference to the final price paid for goods. Can make the difference between a marginal trade for little profit (or even a loss) based on the quoted price on the trade screen becoming a highly profitable trade instead. These days I'm less concerned about the quoted price (that I can change with a bit of effort) & far more interested in the quantity available - if they're selling enough to fulfill a big enough order to make it a worthwhile trade I'll swing by to negotiate a better price. Feel much more involved in the trade process than I have in any previous X game as a result.

pref
Posts: 5589
Joined: Sat, 10. Nov 12, 17:55
x4

Post by pref » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 19:37

That's true, you have more ways to influence deals, and that is indeed nice.
There are aspects X3 has no chance compared to XR, there is no question of that either.
The guys were talking about one specific activity, so i was referring only to that. Smalltalk, rep increase and the rest do not change the tade rules, just give you more profit. They wont change success rate or the difficulty.

If you wanted to compare these activities to X3 then i think you should consider X3's exploration and satnet building and rep grinding, compared to the features you mentioned from XR like smalltalk and station scan.

Just to compare apples to apples, and not apples to apples and oranges and banans or smthg.

User avatar
Earth Ultimatum IV.
Posts: 5280
Joined: Mon, 3. May 10, 14:39
x4

Post by Earth Ultimatum IV. » Thu, 4. Dec 14, 19:43

Once stacked discounts and bought Fusion Reactors for about 20 000 000.
Then sold them for 40 000 000.


Gosh, that feel! But I wouldn't do it again.

Post Reply

Return to “X Rebirth Universe”