This game is getting there.

Valkeram · Post by **Valkeram** » Mon, 6. Oct 14, 13:18

I was one of those who originally pre-purchased X-Rebirth after enjoying X3 in the past.

I played for quite a while but decided to give it a rest for a few months to allow egosoft to work their after-launch magic.

I have now been playing the beta 2.5 for a good few hours, long enough to build a Hardware Supplier complex along side my Pharma Lab.

I'm blown away by the detail on the Hardware station. I can watch the multicoloured private ships landing and taking off in the car park beside the entertainment district.

I hover over the Plate Foundry and watch the industrial robots working over the moving conveyor belts to produce the product that the craft from the surrounding stations in Omicron Lyrae are queuing to collect.

Half a dozen of my Gigurum trade ships are arriving and departing each with their Foltor Sentinel escorts buzzing around them and my Trade Managers are beginning to increase my wealth with regular profits and now I am working on which station to build in order to compliment the ones I own.

All this in incredible graphical detail.

Yes, the occasional crash or lock up that regular saves mitigate but this is Beta after all.

All told, this is becoming one great sim.

Miniding · Post by **Miniding** » Mon, 6. Oct 14, 13:24

I didn't let it down but I agree!!

Nice to seepeople getting back and enjoying the work done

Earth Ultimatum IV. · Post by **Earth Ultimatum IV.** » Mon, 6. Oct 14, 16:41

And actually, nothing has changed since release, besides bugfixes and some polishment.

You people are wierd.

Valkeram · Post by **Valkeram** » Mon, 6. Oct 14, 17:08

Earth ultimatum IV. wrote:And actually, nothing has changed since release, besides bugfixes and some polishment.

You people are wierd.

What has changed, (for me at least), is that I have actually managed to get to a stage where I could sit back and appreciate the huge level of detail that has gone into the game rather than fight those bugs.

YMMV

wwdragon · Post by **wwdragon** » Mon, 6. Oct 14, 17:44

Yup. The little details are really nice.

The more bugs they squash and the more easy to use it is, the better I can take time to focus on those cool little things all over.

ezra-r · Post by **ezra-r** » Mon, 6. Oct 14, 18:16

Earth ultimatum IV. wrote:And actually, nothing has changed since release, besides bugfixes and some polishment.

You people are wierd.

Well if by polishment you mean:

* new cockpits to choose.
* better AI behaviour.
* Hard difficulty is hard at least for dogfighting
* Complete and succesful Weapon rebalance.
* You can now trade from the Skunk with station traders without having to dock.
* New Argon Ships.
* PMC vs HoA war.
* New game starts.
and so on..

Valkeram · Post by **Valkeram** » Mon, 6. Oct 14, 18:42

It's the small details I find fascinating.
I've just seen a portal open in one of my stations and a small multicoloured private craft leave and fly to the Entertainment Centre and land in the car park.

I have just spotted some sort of train travelling around one of the station modules.

I like the way the when a ship jumps into the sector I'm in, you hear the sound of it first, followed by the craft appearing surrounded by some sort of static haze with its jump drive glowing cherry red before fading to grey.

A huge amount of work has gone into this sim and I'm beginning to really enjoy discovering just how much.
It makes up for what, to me, was a slight disappointment when I first tried it out.

Earth Ultimatum IV. · Post by **Earth Ultimatum IV.** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 11:41

Yeah yeah, I was just joking a little bit.
Only the addition of trade agents, and performance improvements are a giant game changer.

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 15:45

I still find the scale of this game to be too... Small... Compared to the previous X-games. It's just so limited. I do not think that will never really change. Details are nice, but graphic details are not gameplay. I would trade nice graphics for gameplay features in a hearbeat.

And no, I was never expecting X4, I was expecting so much more.

Earth Ultimatum IV. · Post by **Earth Ultimatum IV.** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 16:48

Station building is much, MUCH deeper than in previous games, as you are building the station from real resources, you upgrade it, you put people aboard to work there.
Instead of just popping the space somewhere.

Capital ships are much deeper too, as they are now built from modules, and most of those can be destroyed (including cargo bays, hangar doors, command relays).

Trading is much bigger, wares are moved by giant capital ships, that have drones aboard, must unload/load the goods physically.
And ware types are divided into classes, Liquid, Bulk, Energy and Container.
You cannot load microchips into a tanker ships, finally.

Mining was totally overhauled, there are gas resources now, and its a true part of economy. In X3 it was simply about shooting asteroids and picking the stuff up.
And it was just a small, alternative way of gathering ore... Now its truly a part of economy, where all the manufacturing starts.

And you have a cockpit. I cant live without having a cockpit anymore.

spankahontis · Post by **spankahontis** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 16:59

Earth ultimatum IV. wrote:Station building is much, MUCH deeper than in previous games, as you are building the station from real resources, you upgrade it, you put people aboard to work there.
Instead of just popping the space somewhere.

Capital ships are much deeper too, as they are now built from modules, and most of those can be destroyed (including cargo bays, hangar doors, command relays).

Trading is much bigger, wares are moved by giant capital ships, that have drones aboard, must unload/load the goods physically.
And ware types are divided into classes, Liquid, Bulk, Energy and Container.
You cannot load microchips into a tanker ships, finally.

Mining was totally overhauled, there are gas resources now, and its a true part of economy. In X3 it was simply about shooting asteroids and picking the stuff up.
And it was just a small, alternative way of gathering ore... Now its truly a part of economy, where all the manufacturing starts.

And you have a cockpit. I cant live without having a cockpit anymore.

Once you've tasted the Cockpit feature for the first time your standards get higher that you can't accept a space sim without it.

Maybe the reason allot of people complained about features that weren't in the game on release.
But I just can't play this game now until December comes. 3.0 coming soon, woot woot!

Earth Ultimatum IV. · Post by **Earth Ultimatum IV.** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 17:07

Tasted the cockpit feature in 2004 for the first time...
I was a kiddo back then, and didnt care about immersion, I was just exited about Xenons and the Khaak back then!
I was even glad that they removed them in X3R, as it made combat easier.
But after spending a big part of my life in X3TC and also X3AP, I totally had thirst for cockpits.
Rebirth does it very well - the more obstructive cockpit, the better for me. Iam still using the default Skunk cockpit BTW, as it fits Skunks outside look, and looks extremly well from inside.

But yes, after X3AP I refused to play any spacesim OR racing game that didnt have cockpits.

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 17:47

Earth ultimatum IV. wrote:Station building is much, MUCH deeper than in previous games, as you are building the station from real resources, you upgrade it, you put people aboard to work there.
Instead of just popping the space somewhere.

Capital ships are much deeper too, as they are now built from modules, and most of those can be destroyed (including cargo bays, hangar doors, command relays).

Trading is much bigger, wares are moved by giant capital ships, that have drones aboard, must unload/load the goods physically.
And ware types are divided into classes, Liquid, Bulk, Energy and Container.
You cannot load microchips into a tanker ships, finally.

Mining was totally overhauled, there are gas resources now, and its a true part of economy. In X3 it was simply about shooting asteroids and picking the stuff up.
And it was just a small, alternative way of gathering ore... Now its truly a part of economy, where all the manufacturing starts.

And you have a cockpit. I cant live without having a cockpit anymore.

I agree with station building, much better, more complex stations, and that is awesome! Old stations were pretty 1 dimensional, so that is great. Now they just need to get them to work properly

Cap ships do feel different now. That is also pretty good. We did lose variety though... And I do not mean just variety in capital ships, but also variety in ship sizes. The game is now all cap ships with a few fighters, and some drones... Where did all the different sized ships go? Where are the scouts/fighters/bombers/corvettes/destroyers/carriers/bships, etc, etc, etc go? So yeah, cap ships are somewhat superior, but far too much was sacrificed for that... We lost the scope of fleet variety, just to have more detailed cap ships. So one step forward, and like 5 steps back...

Trading was made a bit more more complicated... Better? not so sure. Before we could trade on a galactic scale. If I had a trader on the other side of the galaxy, I could trade. I could have 500 trade ships, and control them all remotely if I so desired... We lost that for added logistical complexity (freight types etc). In a game that is supposed to have a huge economic/strategic scope, I do not think that is a good change... It looks like a step back to me. If I control a galactic trading empire, I do not want to be telling my logistics people what stuff to put on what kind of truck...

Old mining was boring. Put a station on an asteroid and all done! Sure, new mining is more interactive, but not so sure something I want to be doing... I'm in it for the huge economic simulation, so it's not something I will be constantly doing. But it is still an improvement over the previous games.

Cockpits, I'm not much for them, but they do look good, so that's cool.

Now fleets. Sure, controlling them before was a pain, but it could be done to some extent. Now, we cannot... At all... Set patrols, etc, not even there... So that's a huge step back.

So I agree there are some improvements, but the sacrifices done to the rest of the game in order to get those improvements was far too great. Unless they are not going for an economic simulator on a galactic scale... If that is the case, then they should take the scope down a lot, and make it more of a privateer kind of game. However, that is not the focus either... So it's messed up in that sense as well.

The scope of the game just seems wrong with what was actually done...

spankahontis · Post by **spankahontis** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 17:54

Earth ultimatum IV. wrote:Tasted the cockpit feature in 2004 for the first time...
I was a kiddo back then, and didnt care about immersion, I was just exited about Xenons and the Khaak back then!
I was even glad that they removed them in X3R, as it made combat easier.
But after spending a big part of my life in X3TC and also X3AP, I totally had thirst for cockpits.
Rebirth does it very well - the more obstructive cockpit, the better for me. Iam still using the default Skunk cockpit BTW, as it fits Skunks outside look, and looks extremly well from inside.

But yes, after X3AP I refused to play any spacesim OR racing game that didnt have cockpits.

I just love the Hawk Mk3 skins, that view screen turning blue is just awesome.

Rail_Balco · Post by **Rail_Balco** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 18:05

caleb wrote: Cap ships do feel different now. That is also pretty good. We did lose variety though... And I do not mean just variety in capital ships, but also variety in ship sizes. The game is now all cap ships with a few fighters, and some drones... Where did all the different sized ships go? Where are the scouts/fighters/bombers/corvettes/destroyers/carriers/bships, etc, etc, etc go? So yeah, cap ships are somewhat superior, but far too much was sacrificed for that... We lost the scope of fleet variety, just to have more detailed cap ships. So one step forward, and like 5 steps back...

Oh come on! Everybody know, that X games were always (ALWAYS) half-finished on release and a lot of them were well playable after too much patching (I remember soo much confusion and angry on the beginning of X3). There was also completely no variety in ships in X3R in the beginning. Few fighters, two classes of capital ships (now I mean there was only Colossus and Titan in Argon) and freighters. Nothing more.

I'd like to read more of your post, but I dont have time now. Maybe I will return later, because this thread looks promising.

As name of this topics says, this game is getting there. As rest of other Egosoft games. I already love it now, and looking forward for more patches. I'm pretty sure we will get more ships and options. And maybe one day, we might even get another playable ship <3

JClosed · Post by **JClosed** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 18:17

@caleb

This is an game in development. We got the (somewhat) bare essentials, and an solid base to build and expand up on.

I am sure over time more ships in greater varity will be added over time. Because the ships are more custumizable, adding new ships will not be that easy as in the older X games. It will take some more time to get things right..

Trading is in my opinion greatly improved over the older games. Sure - there is enough room for improvement, but that's exactly what is going on now.

I agee about mining, the older games where not that great in that aspect.

As far as I can see there where not made any sacrifices, because this game is build from the ground up. In my opinion the things you are missing can (or will) be added in an later stage. It is not "removed", but simply not (yet) build in this game. At every stage the developers can make an deceision to add more stuff, and if that stuff has an resemblance with the older games or not. Do not forget that the way things where done in the older games do not dictate how it must be done in an newer game.

We are clearly passed the stage of intensive bug hunting, and entred the stage where stuff is going to be added. Just look at the coming DLC and you can see this remark is true. Adding things (probably) will be an slow but steady proces, but the game will grow more and more complicated and will have more feautures over time. Until now most time was put in bug-hunting, and that gave an impression of an kind of stand-still (altough in reality even while bug-hunting some new things where introduced). That stage has in my opinion passed, and it would not surprise me to see an increase of feauture adding and expansion from now on.

I have no doubt this game at the end will be much bigger than the previous X games. It will take time, but keep in mind that it also took an long time to go from the bare X3 to X3:AP (and even longer to go from X-BTF to X3:AP).

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 18:21

Rail_Balco wrote:
caleb wrote: Cap ships do feel different now. That is also pretty good. We did lose variety though... And I do not mean just variety in capital ships, but also variety in ship sizes. The game is now all cap ships with a few fighters, and some drones... Where did all the different sized ships go? Where are the scouts/fighters/bombers/corvettes/destroyers/carriers/bships, etc, etc, etc go? So yeah, cap ships are somewhat superior, but far too much was sacrificed for that... We lost the scope of fleet variety, just to have more detailed cap ships. So one step forward, and like 5 steps back...
Oh come on! Everybody know, that X games were always (ALWAYS) half-finished on release and a lot of them were well playable after too much patching (I remember soo much confusion and angry on the beginning of X3). There was also completely no variety in ships in X3R in the beginning. Few fighters, two classes of capital ships (now I mean there was only Colossus and Titan in Argon) and freighters. Nothing more.

I'd like to read more of your post, but I dont have time now. Maybe I will return later, because this thread looks promising.

As name of this topics says, this game is getting there. As rest of other Egosoft games. I already love it now, and looking forward for more patches. I'm pretty sure we will get more ships and options. And maybe one day, we might even get another playable ship <3

I'm well aware of that, I have been playing X games with X:BTF. I have pretty much all of them, and played all of them (except X3: Reunion), and they are great. Sure they have flaws, but they were great nonetheless.

I know the commitment that Egosoft gives to their games as well, I do not have doubts that they will put a lot of effort in this game.

What I have doubts is with the purpose, and direction of this game. It's a good thing you mentioned the title of this thread:

"The game is getting there"

I would like someone to tell me where is this game getting to? Is it getting to be a game where you can control fleets? Nope... Trading simulation? Nope, can't effectively control a trading fleet. Massive economic simulation? That could work with the stations and freighters if they focus more on that. Dogfighter in space? Hardly... Almost no fighters... Drone command and control? Pretty useless drones and no variety...

So the game is getting "there", but where is "there"? What is the light at the end of the tunnel? What can we really expect of this game as a finished product? I just cannot see where this is really going...

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 18:25

JClosed wrote:@caleb

This is an game in development. We got the (somewhat) bare essentials, and an solid base to build and expand up on.

I am sure over time more ships in greater varity will be added over time. Because the ships are more custumizable, adding new ships will not be that easy as in the older X games. It will take some more time to get things right..

Trading is in my opinion greatly improved over the older games. Sure - there is enough room for improvement, but that's exactly what is going on now.

I agee about mining, the older games where not that great in that aspect.

As far as I can see there where not made any sacrifices, because this game is build from the ground up. In my opinion the things you are missing can (or will) be added in an later stage. It is not "removed", but simply not (yet) build in this game. At every stage the developers can make an deceision to add more stuff, and if that stuff has an resemblance with the older games or not. Do not forget that the way things where done in the older games do not dictate how it must be done in an newer game.

We are clearly passed the stage of intensive bug hunting, and entred the stage where stuff is going to be added. Just look at the coming DLC and you can see this remark is true. Adding things (probably) will be an slow but steady proces, but the game will grow more and more complicated and will have more feautures over time. Until now most time was put in by=ug hunting, and that gave an impression of an kind of stand-still (altough in reality even while bug-hunting some new things where introduced). That stage has in my opinion passed, and it would not surprise me to see an increase of feauture adding and expansion from now on.

I have no doubt this game at the end will be much bigger than the previous X games. It will take time, but keep in mind that it also took an long time to go from the bare X3 to X3:AP (and even longer to go from X-BTF to X3:AP).

I really hope that's the case, but I would also like Egosoft to give us an image of that finished product. I want them to tell us clearly what they think X:R will look like in 1 year, 2 years, etc.

You say "all of that should be added" but I need to know exactly *what* they are planning to add. What is the direction of the game. What will this baby be when it grows up.

If there is no clear destination, how do they expect to get there? wherever "there" is...

JClosed · Post by **JClosed** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 18:28

caleb wrote:
Rail_Balco wrote:
caleb wrote: Cap ships do feel different now. That is also pretty good. We did lose variety though... And I do not mean just variety in capital ships, but also variety in ship sizes. The game is now all cap ships with a few fighters, and some drones... Where did all the different sized ships go? Where are the scouts/fighters/bombers/corvettes/destroyers/carriers/bships, etc, etc, etc go? So yeah, cap ships are somewhat superior, but far too much was sacrificed for that... We lost the scope of fleet variety, just to have more detailed cap ships. So one step forward, and like 5 steps back...
Oh come on! Everybody know, that X games were always (ALWAYS) half-finished on release and a lot of them were well playable after too much patching (I remember soo much confusion and angry on the beginning of X3). There was also completely no variety in ships in X3R in the beginning. Few fighters, two classes of capital ships (now I mean there was only Colossus and Titan in Argon) and freighters. Nothing more.

I'd like to read more of your post, but I dont have time now. Maybe I will return later, because this thread looks promising.

As name of this topics says, this game is getting there. As rest of other Egosoft games. I already love it now, and looking forward for more patches. I'm pretty sure we will get more ships and options. And maybe one day, we might even get another playable ship <3
I'm well aware of that, I have been playing X games with X:BTF. I have pretty much all of them, and played all of them (except X3: Reunion), and they are great. Sure they have flaws, but they were great nonetheless.

I know the commitment that Egosoft gives to their games as well, I do not have doubts that they will put a lot of effort in this game.

What I have doubts is with the purpose, and direction of this game. It's a good thing you mentioned the title of this thread:

"The game is getting there"

I would like someone to tell me where is this game getting to? Is it getting to be a game where you can control fleets? Nope... Trading simulation? Nope, can't effectively control a trading fleet. Massive economic simulation? That could work with the stations and freighters if they focus more on that. Dogfighter in space? Hardly... Almost no fighters... Drone command and control? Pretty useless drones and no variety...

So the game is getting "there", but where is "there"? What is the light at the end of the tunnel? What can we really expect of this game as a finished product? I just cannot see where this is really going...

Could you see that X-BTF would end up as X3:AP? Was that planned at the X-BTF stage? I guess not!

The same goes for this game. There will be an development, but the excact direction is not realy predictable. Do not forget the developers are listening to the players, so the players can steer the direction the game will go also (example - the new highways and more cockpits to name an few).

yoyolll · Post by **yoyolll** » Tue, 7. Oct 14, 18:37

It's definitely getting there. Very very very slowly and darkly, but it is getting there. I have a million billion criticisms of the game, it is still a pain to play, and there are still so many bugs, but it's definitely getting there, no doubt about it. They could pick up the pace though...

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

This game is getting there.

This game is getting there.