link:
http://roguey.co.uk/xrebirth/
Quote:
This is why I am now deciding whether to ditch future support of the x-games. If I do then wont be supporting egosoft, and will be on to look-out for the next big thing. I would love to be able to work with the developers. My x-sites will remain open regardless btw (just not updated etc.).
End quote.
Hope this will not happen, this site was and is still a must for me. Also I sent all new players to that site if someone ask some help with a X game.
Just a great info database site, were only a big X fan can put so much work in.
He did so much work for the X games.
I can only say:
Just keep up the GREAT work Roguey, because if you go, you will be missed.
Roguey site is planning to stop with X universe.
Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum
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exogenesis
- Posts: 2718
- Joined: Sun, 9. Sep 07, 15:39
Little bit bemused by the supporting of a position with lots of hindsight, but not so much foresight.
Given ES's track record of continous improvement, I'd be surprised if in 1 or 2 years time X-Rebirth wasn't seen as the best so far,
many things can be changed, enlarged, improved & become worthy of X.
So much room for improvement, but really it will be a lot better with our support for this small developer.
Roguey has done a huge amount to help the community, it will be a sad day if he bows out, & even if he does it may be temporary.
Given ES's track record of continous improvement, I'd be surprised if in 1 or 2 years time X-Rebirth wasn't seen as the best so far,
many things can be changed, enlarged, improved & become worthy of X.
So much room for improvement, but really it will be a lot better with our support for this small developer.
Roguey has done a huge amount to help the community, it will be a sad day if he bows out, & even if he does it may be temporary.
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BigBANGtheory
- Posts: 3168
- Joined: Sun, 23. Oct 05, 12:13
Egosoft has an excellent track record for fixing things and delivering new free content, it has a very poor record on changing things.exogenesis wrote: Given ES's track record of continous improvement, I'd be surprised if in 1 or 2 years time X-Rebirth wasn't seen as the best so far,
many things can be changed, enlarged, improved & become worthy of X.
So much room for improvement, but really it will be a lot better with our support for this small developer.
I completely understand Roguey's point of view and in summary I want to support a developer too but one that wants to be supported and performs their role in that environment. One day maybe, hopefully after the May pacth that they are working towards they will see fit to ask the right questions.
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werewolves?
- Posts: 1166
- Joined: Tue, 31. Jan 12, 00:58
Dark like being realistic? All wonder is why it has taken him so long to realize that this "game" is dead and there is absolutely no reason to support it in any way.werewolves? wrote:I always appreciated his siite, but he seems pretty dark on it. A bit of distance might be a good idea.
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hi there guys,
well its not something I just thought up, I have been thinking about it for awhile now. So i thought id post why ive been rather distant - im not happy with x-rebirth.
sure bolting on a few things might help here and there, but for me the game has some major problems;
I feel trading is just more confusing than it should be (why cant you simply stick wares in a cargobay and sell them?), combat isnt much fun (especially when you can go into a blind-spot) coupled with only one ship, station building is buggy (and not worthwhile), station interiors offer very little depth, silly mini-games, and there is no end-game content (xenon sit around space doing nothing). The one-player ship needs to go too.
Before X-R came out, I was in DevNet for 6 months. So for me I am judging the game on a 12 month period, not like 6 like most of the public (if you got it on release day). Its sad time indeed; has the x-games have been a large part of my life. Its so frustrating, as egosoft only had to ask its fans/supporters what they wanted but never did (who designed it? bernd? publishers?). Space-sim fans are very specially people, who will gladly spend a lot of time and/or money on these titles - you only have to look at the two big-crowd fundded games to see that. You had an army of fans willing to help! All were basically ingored - hence why a lot of testers left in the end.
I understand that devs are busy; but equally your fans feed-back should of been top priority - making a game that people can enjoy and want to play is more important than ticking boxes; ie. can you land and meet people? does it have nice space-graphics etc. I know that egosoft could never please everyone, but thats never stopped them before with prevoius x-games (some were highly driven by community support - ie. X3TC and X3AP, which both featured a lot of community content). So there may of been a bit of a back-lash from the general gaming croud - but even then I think a lot of people who brought x-r would of enjoyed it, if it was a great game. I think a lot of people brought x-r as a space-sim filler but felt ripped-off by it. Maybe all this was planned, as bernd or publishers wanted to cash-in on whats happening (as they probably seen how popular two other space-sims have got). Maybe im reading more into it, but I know I wont get an answer to that.
Its all a shame, as we should been all buzzing with excitement at this point, but feeling hurt, ignored and worthless.
I want to say everyone here has been great, thank-you.
well its not something I just thought up, I have been thinking about it for awhile now. So i thought id post why ive been rather distant - im not happy with x-rebirth.
sure bolting on a few things might help here and there, but for me the game has some major problems;
I feel trading is just more confusing than it should be (why cant you simply stick wares in a cargobay and sell them?), combat isnt much fun (especially when you can go into a blind-spot) coupled with only one ship, station building is buggy (and not worthwhile), station interiors offer very little depth, silly mini-games, and there is no end-game content (xenon sit around space doing nothing). The one-player ship needs to go too.
Before X-R came out, I was in DevNet for 6 months. So for me I am judging the game on a 12 month period, not like 6 like most of the public (if you got it on release day). Its sad time indeed; has the x-games have been a large part of my life. Its so frustrating, as egosoft only had to ask its fans/supporters what they wanted but never did (who designed it? bernd? publishers?). Space-sim fans are very specially people, who will gladly spend a lot of time and/or money on these titles - you only have to look at the two big-crowd fundded games to see that. You had an army of fans willing to help! All were basically ingored - hence why a lot of testers left in the end.
I understand that devs are busy; but equally your fans feed-back should of been top priority - making a game that people can enjoy and want to play is more important than ticking boxes; ie. can you land and meet people? does it have nice space-graphics etc. I know that egosoft could never please everyone, but thats never stopped them before with prevoius x-games (some were highly driven by community support - ie. X3TC and X3AP, which both featured a lot of community content). So there may of been a bit of a back-lash from the general gaming croud - but even then I think a lot of people who brought x-r would of enjoyed it, if it was a great game. I think a lot of people brought x-r as a space-sim filler but felt ripped-off by it. Maybe all this was planned, as bernd or publishers wanted to cash-in on whats happening (as they probably seen how popular two other space-sims have got). Maybe im reading more into it, but I know I wont get an answer to that.
Its all a shame, as we should been all buzzing with excitement at this point, but feeling hurt, ignored and worthless.
I want to say everyone here has been great, thank-you.
Ive learnt not to jump too quickly, as a few games in the past have been improved after release. Although these developers actively talks with their fans/public to improve thier game rather than go quiet (or hide). ie. whoops; we ducked-up, but give us advice and we do something about it. This takes time, like months. Ive been waiting to see if this would happen wih x-r, but after all this time nothing has.Dark like being realistic? All wonder is why it has taken him so long to realize that this "game" is dead and there is absolutely no reason to support it in any way.
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RegisterMe
- Posts: 8903
- Joined: Sun, 14. Oct 07, 17:47
Well Roguey, fwiw, thank you for all of the support you provided for previous X games, I used your site / resources many times.
RM
PS. And I completely agree re Rebirth, I just pop back every now and then to see if anything's changed enough to get me to change my opinion of the game....
RM
PS. And I completely agree re Rebirth, I just pop back every now and then to see if anything's changed enough to get me to change my opinion of the game....
I can't breathe.
- George Floyd, 25th May 2020
- George Floyd, 25th May 2020
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Cabrelbeuk
- Posts: 782
- Joined: Fri, 26. Apr 13, 23:54
Well, they listen again the few people who keep believe in the potential of this game nah ? The beta for the May patch is not an exemple of the "whoops" syndrom ?
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Well Roguey, I respect you decision and as you know have the most respect and gratitude for your efforts, since I dont suffer from short term memory loss.
Having said that, I cannot agree to the reasoning behind the decision and would like to provide my perspective on it, see I'm in DevNet for a long time (we used to have Dinosaurs that's how long it is) and tbh things have been the way they are since ever. Its frustrating at times and one has to distance him/herself to catch a break, that is normal, people do tend to change in habits and preferences. But it will never be all fluffy and cosy all the time, mostly cause people have different views and opinions on things. Feedback was and will be always an issue and its not like people dont know the problem, its to have a suitable solution that is the challenge. Its a pet peeve of mine too tbh, but its not a perfect world and we have to do with what we got.
Everyone has to define where their threshold is and act on it, given this is supposed to be a hobby and we are here because we want to, thus we are free to not be too. But imo it is the better choice to try and help as much as I can/want regardless, leaving when things are not running smooth is something that goes against my nature, in fact I was absent for quite a few month and only decided to be more active again once I noticed how bad things are in terms of community. Again not trying to judge, but if anyone thinks things are not good, maybe an extra effort should be made (and I dont mean ranting or spewing endless list of what anyone THINKS is what should be done), as volunteer my task is to help where I'm asked, if I cant be bothered with it, then I dont and move on. But that is as it stands my personal opinion and everyone else is free to think their own.
MFG
Ketraar
Having said that, I cannot agree to the reasoning behind the decision and would like to provide my perspective on it, see I'm in DevNet for a long time (we used to have Dinosaurs that's how long it is) and tbh things have been the way they are since ever. Its frustrating at times and one has to distance him/herself to catch a break, that is normal, people do tend to change in habits and preferences. But it will never be all fluffy and cosy all the time, mostly cause people have different views and opinions on things. Feedback was and will be always an issue and its not like people dont know the problem, its to have a suitable solution that is the challenge. Its a pet peeve of mine too tbh, but its not a perfect world and we have to do with what we got.
Everyone has to define where their threshold is and act on it, given this is supposed to be a hobby and we are here because we want to, thus we are free to not be too. But imo it is the better choice to try and help as much as I can/want regardless, leaving when things are not running smooth is something that goes against my nature, in fact I was absent for quite a few month and only decided to be more active again once I noticed how bad things are in terms of community. Again not trying to judge, but if anyone thinks things are not good, maybe an extra effort should be made (and I dont mean ranting or spewing endless list of what anyone THINKS is what should be done), as volunteer my task is to help where I'm asked, if I cant be bothered with it, then I dont and move on. But that is as it stands my personal opinion and everyone else is free to think their own.
MFG
Ketraar
I fully understand his frustration. After 2 hours into the game, your "skunk" can be fully upgraded,
and the fact that the AI sucks donkey, isn't improving the /thumbs up.
I can't queue more then 1 trade at the time to a CV, my combatships doesn't attack
and there is no way to effectivly lead a fleet. Also, ships needs to be in your
squad to do direct trading, doesn't matter if you intend on running a military squad or not...
I haven't played XR in 2+ months now, and i'm not missing it.
Poor optimization, missing 50% of the content.
and the fact that the AI sucks donkey, isn't improving the /thumbs up.
I can't queue more then 1 trade at the time to a CV, my combatships doesn't attack
and there is no way to effectivly lead a fleet. Also, ships needs to be in your
squad to do direct trading, doesn't matter if you intend on running a military squad or not...
I haven't played XR in 2+ months now, and i'm not missing it.
Poor optimization, missing 50% of the content.
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.
For Rogey:
Just thought I would give you some feed back from one of the "traitors", the one that actually prefers XR over X3
I fear I may be the only one, but still, here is a little input anyway.
For me XR is not the poor broken game with nothing to do. I ALLWAYS have something to do... 1100+ hrs campaing started for the 3rd time, I allways have some plan, something to do, somewhere to go.
I am not saying that there are no problems, or that I can do what I want the way I want it, but I allways have something I want to do.
Here are my main experiences from X3:
First try (think it was Terran Conflict). 25 hrs in... Not a lot in an X game, but a lot to many other games. Also note A LOT of reload because I coudlnt finish missions. I was progressing my campaign, but my ship was getting heavyly damaged. Hense the reason for the many reloads.
I cant repair... Price is WAY to high... Missions do not help, nothing that gives me money enough to even cover minor scratches... I then, by accident find something (dont remember what) and I sell it... I think I suddenly had 400 times the money I had before. WOW, I am RICH!!!
And my ship was at 5% hull (!!!) and had no way of advancing of to the next stage. But now I can repair! I went to the repair guy and... I could fix from 5% to 10%.... Still no way of advancing the story and I was broke...
So... Long time after I try Albion Prelude...
I take the mission as a Merchant... Coudlnt finish the introcutory mission as I had no weapons on my ships, and the mission required it... I tried as a millitary man, and I was able to finish the introductory mission, and then... I had NO idea where to go... With the previous experience in mind, I once again abbandon the game...
Then comes XR... Full of bugs... I think 4 hours into the game and I think "hmmm...." NO way they can have made a full playthrough here... I found my self stuck at some bug (dont remember which, maybe the delivery of energy or something). But... I could go and I could easily do something else, I didnt find it hard to find other things to do. I could repair my ship for money that I could easily replace ny trades with NPCs on stations. Yes yes, they look like crap, but for me it worked... I could stay in the game, and soon a patch was released and I could advance my game with fully repaired ship, and a growing money purse...
Not saying XR is a better game, just that its easier for newcomers to get into. For me, that was exactly what I needed. And I can still spent and eternity trying to expand my empire and beat up those pesky Plutarc.
And I am not saying I dont understand that you dont want to leave the X series, nor am I saying you are wrong to do it. That is your dessision, and I think from what I have seen on forums, both here and on Steam that I understand why you leave.
What I probably AM saying is... This game still need a lot of help, and I think you are one of those that can give this help if you are patient (I know, more than patient). And this game actually did answer the need of some people (ok ok, it answered MY needs), so maybe you could be convinced to stick around a little longer, even if the may patch doesnt do enough?
Just thought I would give you some feed back from one of the "traitors", the one that actually prefers XR over X3
I fear I may be the only one, but still, here is a little input anyway.For me XR is not the poor broken game with nothing to do. I ALLWAYS have something to do... 1100+ hrs campaing started for the 3rd time, I allways have some plan, something to do, somewhere to go.
I am not saying that there are no problems, or that I can do what I want the way I want it, but I allways have something I want to do.
Here are my main experiences from X3:
First try (think it was Terran Conflict). 25 hrs in... Not a lot in an X game, but a lot to many other games. Also note A LOT of reload because I coudlnt finish missions. I was progressing my campaign, but my ship was getting heavyly damaged. Hense the reason for the many reloads.
I cant repair... Price is WAY to high... Missions do not help, nothing that gives me money enough to even cover minor scratches... I then, by accident find something (dont remember what) and I sell it... I think I suddenly had 400 times the money I had before. WOW, I am RICH!!!
And my ship was at 5% hull (!!!) and had no way of advancing of to the next stage. But now I can repair! I went to the repair guy and... I could fix from 5% to 10%.... Still no way of advancing the story and I was broke...
So... Long time after I try Albion Prelude...
I take the mission as a Merchant... Coudlnt finish the introcutory mission as I had no weapons on my ships, and the mission required it... I tried as a millitary man, and I was able to finish the introductory mission, and then... I had NO idea where to go... With the previous experience in mind, I once again abbandon the game...
Then comes XR... Full of bugs... I think 4 hours into the game and I think "hmmm...." NO way they can have made a full playthrough here... I found my self stuck at some bug (dont remember which, maybe the delivery of energy or something). But... I could go and I could easily do something else, I didnt find it hard to find other things to do. I could repair my ship for money that I could easily replace ny trades with NPCs on stations. Yes yes, they look like crap, but for me it worked... I could stay in the game, and soon a patch was released and I could advance my game with fully repaired ship, and a growing money purse...
Not saying XR is a better game, just that its easier for newcomers to get into. For me, that was exactly what I needed. And I can still spent and eternity trying to expand my empire and beat up those pesky Plutarc.
And I am not saying I dont understand that you dont want to leave the X series, nor am I saying you are wrong to do it. That is your dessision, and I think from what I have seen on forums, both here and on Steam that I understand why you leave.
What I probably AM saying is... This game still need a lot of help, and I think you are one of those that can give this help if you are patient (I know, more than patient). And this game actually did answer the need of some people (ok ok, it answered MY needs
), so maybe you could be convinced to stick around a little longer, even if the may patch doesnt do enough?Wow. I didn't think we'd ever see the backside of Roguey. I've used a fair number of his resources during my plays of X3.
I do have to say that I'm largely in agreement with your views Roguey.
The mistake of not properly communicating with the community before launch and then continuing minimal communication after launch being passed off as 'just the way things are' is really backwards.
Game development has changed since 1999. Developers need to embrace and accept that shooting in the dark will no longer cut it.
When people raise concerns about things, when they express deep reservations and ask questions or make suggestions, a developer needs to answer when those things are being echoed by large numbers of the community. Even if the answer is a firm and resounding 'no' with good reasoning behind it.
People still don't understand how the ball got dropped with Rebirth. How it managed to appeal to so few and how it became something that is so hard to reconcile with past X games.
Maybe we're the ones who got it wrong though, and Egosoft has found a large and eager community ready to replace the one they disappointed so thoroughly with Rebirth's release. This seems unlikely though...
I do have to say that I'm largely in agreement with your views Roguey.
The mistake of not properly communicating with the community before launch and then continuing minimal communication after launch being passed off as 'just the way things are' is really backwards.
Game development has changed since 1999. Developers need to embrace and accept that shooting in the dark will no longer cut it.
When people raise concerns about things, when they express deep reservations and ask questions or make suggestions, a developer needs to answer when those things are being echoed by large numbers of the community. Even if the answer is a firm and resounding 'no' with good reasoning behind it.
People still don't understand how the ball got dropped with Rebirth. How it managed to appeal to so few and how it became something that is so hard to reconcile with past X games.
Maybe we're the ones who got it wrong though, and Egosoft has found a large and eager community ready to replace the one they disappointed so thoroughly with Rebirth's release. This seems unlikely though...
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.
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RedEclipse
- Posts: 1269
- Joined: Sat, 11. Sep 04, 16:43
It seems they gave too much money to SC/ED and not enough to X:RRoguey wrote:Space-sim fans are very specially people, who will gladly spend a lot of time and/or money on these titles - you only have to look at the two big-crowd fundded games to see that.
"AaaAaaAah ! They're everywhere...", Jane Doe, Freedom Force.
Sure it does. None of us here forced Egosoft into this position. We didn't manage the development of the game. We didn't set timelines or deadlines for delivery and we sure as heck weren't consulted about what we wanted in the game.Ketraar wrote:No it doesnt.jm7111 wrote:This single phrase says all there is to it.Roguey wrote: Its all a shame, as we should been all buzzing with excitement at this point, but feeling hurt, ignored and worthless.
People often forget that customers are not required to have any kind of in-depth knowledge or empathy for the provider of a product or service they are paying for.
Dissatisfied customers don't have to understand the process of software development, the difficulties of sticking to reasonable timelines or how tough it is in the game business for a small software developer.
Those are the privileges enjoyed by a developer with a strong community for their games. Once those people start to leave or turn their backs, I think there should at least be some cause for concern.
Egosoft ignored it's community in favour of creating some ultra-cool, mass market appealing space/empire building sim lite. A GTA in space (those being Bernd's words). They failed. Now they appear to be repeating the same mistakes which got them here in the first place and people are starting to lose faith because they waited years for a game that launched in a horrible state. Then are still waiting 5 months after for the basic game experience expected at launch to be delivered.
So yeah...I think that single phrase comes really close to saying it all.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.
Get a grip people .... I do not feel hurt, ignored and definitely not worthless ... It is a Space Sim that's got off to a very poor start ... Not the end of the world ..... As always Egosoft will sort with the help of a new breed of modders ..... Or they won't .... Looking forward to the Mega May Patch.
What modders? there is no one leftbirdtable wrote:Get a grip people .... I do not feel hurt, ignored and definitely not worthless ... It is a Space Sim that's got off to a very poor start ... Not the end of the world ..... As always Egosoft will sort with the help of a new breed of modders ..... Or they won't .... Looking forward to the Mega May Patch.
You don't just shrug your shoulders and say who cares when a guy with his name in the credits of the game terminates his interest and denounces the dev team.