ISR vs CIG

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Cursed Ghost
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ISR vs CIG

Post by Cursed Ghost » Sun, 27. Apr 14, 14:31

hi all

just captured my first Hyperion and I'm trying to decide what weapons would be best to equip on its min battery now i just been running some numbers and it seems that CIGs are actually more powerful despite what it says in the in-game encyclopedia this is a little counter intuitive so i was wondering if someone could check my numbers make sure I'm calculating this correctly.
CIG

Damage per Second (Hull): 3200 X 60 sec = 192000 Damage per min
Damage per Second (Shield): 9800 X 60 sec = 588000 Damage per min
Energy Cost per Shot: 246 MJ X ROF: 75 shots per min = 18450 energy cost per minute

Damage per min (Hull): 192000 / energy cost per minute 18450 = 10.40650407
Damage per min (Shield): 588000 / energy cost per minute 18450 = 31.8699187

ISR

Damage per Second (Hull): 3700 X 60 sec = 222000 Damage per min
Damage per Second (Shield): 10200 X 60 sec = 612000 Damage per min
Energy Cost per Shot: 124 MJ X ROF: 230 shots per min = 28520 energy cost per minute

Damage per min (Hull): 222000 / energy cost per minute 28520 = 7.78401122
Damage per min (Shield): 612000 / energy cost per minute 28520 = 21.45862553
now according to this even though ISRs are technically the more powerful weapon due to the massive energy drain pound for pound CIGs actually end up doing more damage overall on both hull and shields even though each individual shot is weaker and its rate of fire is less, this is of course assumes a 100% hit rate against a big slow target for both weapons.

Sparky Sparkycorp
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Post by Sparky Sparkycorp » Sun, 27. Apr 14, 15:17

I agree that CIGs will be the better overall choice due to energy consumption.

The Hyperion's energy recharge rate (126,000 GJ/min) is less than the energy needs of 8 CIGs such that's it's reserve would only last 69 seconds even if turrets didn't fire. 15 seconds for 8 ISRs. Thus damage/second/GJ becomes important quite quickly.

Some other differences you may have noticed:
- ISR shots fly 16% faster, which is nice for hitting smaller ships.
- ISR shots drain some of the targets laser energy, which may not help.
- CIG shots push away smaller ships, which can be good and bad.
- Individual CIG shots do 3-times the damage leading to more alpha and a potential to kill small targets quicker.


Edit: Added ISR fire duration.
Last edited by Sparky Sparkycorp on Sun, 27. Apr 14, 15:26, edited 4 times in total.

ajax34i
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Post by ajax34i » Sun, 27. Apr 14, 15:19

As you'll probably see from subsequent posts, the choice of CIG vs. ISR often comes down to color preference or trying shoot smaller targets with the front guns, because the Hyperion has better weapons against capitals (look at its huge missile compatibility, including the Terran Wraith). Big guns out-range yours, and the ship is an M6, not an M7-M2, so you don't really want to get in range to shoot guns at anything big.

My favorite tactic involved a Hyperion overtuned to just above the speed of Wraith missiles, so I'd come in from afar launching a whole cloud of them, and pass by the target (its turrets would focus on me rather than missile defense) then the Wraiths would hit, killing it.

If you really want to get close, 8 flamethrowers in a blind spot also does the trick pretty well.

Otherwise I prefer ISR because its faster rate of fire lets me hit M3's. But, again, overtuned Hyperion, both speed and turning, so I can dogfight in it.

Lone Jedi
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Post by Lone Jedi » Sun, 27. Apr 14, 16:01

I mentioned several times in other threads, CIG has much better hit efficiency. It can hit M5 or any other targets with much higher accuracy than ISR, mainly because of the larger bullet size. From my experience the accuracy of CIG is almost 100% while that of ISR is around 90%.

Other than that, the differences of energy consumption and damage between them are not significantly big.

Is damage per minute of any use? Can your ship sustain fire for an entire minute?
ajax34i wrote:Big guns out-range yours, and the ship is an M6, not an M7-M2, so you don't really want to get in range to shoot guns at anything big.
Those big guns from larger ships (except lasers) can easily be evaded. I do engage every enemy capital ship (except Kh'aak) I meet in an M6, mainly with main guns. Hyperion is perfectly capable of killing big ships with its main guns.
I live in my Vidar.

Laser hit efficiency: 97% @190,499 shots
Missile hit efficiency: 97% @4,204 missiles fired

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DrBullwinkle
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Re: ISR vs CIG

Post by DrBullwinkle » Sun, 27. Apr 14, 20:46

Cursed Ghost wrote:CIGs actually end up doing more damage overall on both hull and shields even though each individual shot is weaker and its rate of fire is less
Your data clearly shows that the ISR is the more powerful weapon, while CIG is more efficient. Each has a purpose.

However, it is worth noting that the ISR is the most versatile pirate weapon in the game. It is good for stripping heavy shields and reducing return fire; both of which are useful during boarding ops. It is heavy (and fast) enough to kill small ships quickly, and will kill large ships given enough time.

I balance the energy drain with ammo-based Energy Bolt Chain Guns (EBCG). Then I can use weapon groups to choose the specific combination that I want for killing or suppressing shields -- against any size enemy.

hisazul
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Post by hisazul » Mon, 28. Apr 14, 06:58

Lone Jedi wrote:I mentioned several times in other threads, CIG has much better hit efficiency. It can hit M5 or any other targets with much higher accuracy than ISR, mainly because of the larger bullet size. From my experience the accuracy of CIG is almost 100% while that of ISR is around 90%.

Other than that, the differences of energy consumption and damage between them are not significantly big.

Is damage per minute of any use? Can your ship sustain fire for an entire minute?
ajax34i wrote:Big guns out-range yours, and the ship is an M6, not an M7-M2, so you don't really want to get in range to shoot guns at anything big.
Those big guns from larger ships (except lasers) can easily be evaded. I do engage every enemy capital ship (except Kh'aak) I meet in an M6, mainly with main guns. Hyperion is perfectly capable of killing big ships with its main guns.
And
DrBullwinkle wrote:
Cursed Ghost wrote:CIGs actually end up doing more damage overall on both hull and shields even though each individual shot is weaker and its rate of fire is less
Your data clearly shows that the ISR is the more powerful weapon, while CIG is more efficient. Each has a purpose.

However, it is worth noting that the ISR is the most versatile pirate weapon in the game. It is good for stripping heavy shields and reducing return fire; both of which are useful during boarding ops. It is heavy (and fast) enough to kill small ships quickly, and will kill large ships given enough time.

I balance the energy drain with ammo-based Energy Bolt Chain Guns (EBCG). Then I can use weapon groups to choose the specific combination that I want for killing or suppressing shields -- against any size enemy.
This basically sums up.
1. Unless you shooting asteroids... you will never sustain fire for so long that you run out of energy. When you consider maneuvering, positioning, dealing with missiles etc etc. All energy efficiency issues becomes nothing more then meaningless number. (achinonix has 4 as its steering... yet it turns slower then some destroyers... ship is literally incapable of being piloted by ai due to abysmal steering, so much for that number)

2. Completely agree on more versatile comment by our resident Dr. It excels for boarding ops due to ability to strip cap ships from mid range. One of very few medium class ship weapons that is capable of taking advantage of outraging even capitals when combined with turbo-boosters + shooting enemy that heading towards you.

Also... I really hate CIGs special effect. I really do. One hit and fighter is already bouncing off and your entire volley missed. All the energy you "saved" got wasted because of that. Doesn't apply to medium/capital ships tho, there its mostly preferences and how person pilots and what their ship is capable of using.
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.” - Albert Einstein

Lone Jedi
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Post by Lone Jedi » Mon, 28. Apr 14, 09:17

hisazul wrote: 1. Unless you shooting asteroids... you will never sustain fire for so long that you run out of energy.
In TC, 8 CIGs or ISRs drain all weapon energy of an M6 in approximately 10 to 20 secs.
I live in my Vidar.

Laser hit efficiency: 97% @190,499 shots
Missile hit efficiency: 97% @4,204 missiles fired

Honved
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Post by Honved » Mon, 28. Apr 14, 16:11

I tried both CIG and ISR, and both have their good and bad sides, mostly bad.

CIG, as previously mentioned, while providing better efficiency than ISR, has the unfortunate tendency to toss a fighter target out of the way of your line of fire before the rest of the shots connect. Against large opponents, the higher energy efficiency allows one to sustain fire longer before breaking off to recharge. It also does far more damage per shot, so in TC, it's the weapon of choice for OOS combat.

ISR, while firing a faster round that's perfect for hitting M3+ and M6 targets at the fringes of their return fire range, sucks power like a government sucks money, and its small bullet size makes it really hard to use against the occasional M4, and virtually an accident if you manage to hit an M5. The lower damage per shot and higher rate of fire gives better control of hull damage for bailing or shield suppression for boarding, again delivered from just beyond the range of most smaller weapons. The weapons energy drain it inflicts on the target is rather trivial compared to the energy drain it inflicts on your own ship.

After my search for "the perfect Corvette class weapon", I relegated the CIG to purely OOS duty on "guard" ships, and sell any ISRs I end up with. A bank of HEPT will provide roughly the same punch and projectile speed as CIG for a fraction of the energy drain, at only slightly less range, and without the annoying "ship toss" side effect on the target. The ISR is marginally useful in a "sniper" or hit/fade role on a fast M6, but hardly worth the cost of a weapon slot for that.

The lack of a worthwhile Corvette class weapon is just one more reason why I dislike M6s in general.

Cpt.Jericho
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Post by Cpt.Jericho » Mon, 28. Apr 14, 16:49

Honved wrote:The lack of a worthwhile Corvette class weapon is just one more reason why I dislike M6s in general.
Hey, they make great tug-ships :lol:
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