Human Resources manager/department required

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RAVEN.myst
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Human Resources manager/department required

Post by RAVEN.myst » Thu, 8. Dec 16, 11:20

A little under 8 game days in, 1174 staff members hired - WTH! (400 of them in the last 32~35 hours). I'm now thinking that a priority for any new-features patch should be the addition of an HR facility, which should help with:

- Centralised acquisition of staff members
- Staff training (perhaps over time for significant cost, a la marines in TC/AP)
- Distribution/transportation and placement - getting the right people into the right places (at the right time, just to complete the cliche), allowing for remote staffing of stations and ships, and for remote reassignments (for example, swapping crew members between two ships, or recovering a staff member for reassignment elsewhere.)

The volume of staff usage grows exponentially as the game progresses, so this facility only really becomes needed in the later game (by around a week into a game, I find myself spending most of my time doing hiring and firing - not THE most fun imaginable...) Consequently, this provides an opportunity to add a new player-ownable station or module that needs to be built in order to get the HR features. If there were to be a PHQ, this would make an ideal upgrade module for such.

I know this has been suggested before by others, but some sort of personnel transport would go well with this whole enterprise. There could be both M and L sized ones. An XL version could, perhaps, not carry any more passengers than the L version, or even fewer, but could include on-board training facilities.

While we're at it, at some point (probably not earlier than the next title, I guess), I would really like to see truly HIRED staff members, as opposed to the current purchased ones - I always feel like I'm buying slaves. Salaries could be proportional to skill levels.
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Post by Ezarkal » Thu, 8. Dec 16, 15:10

These are very good ideas.

I think the big problem is, the game was never really intended to get the player to the point where it has that many assets. It allows us to do it, to buy more ships and to build more stations, but they never optimized the game towards developing that much.

There are a lot of sign for this
-The lack of true end-game objective outside "expand more and make more money"
-The unfriendliness of the property window for managing more than a few dozen of assets are a good sign of this.
-The exponential amount of micro-management involved that you just mentioned
-Limited AI command to"program" station and assets into behaving in more specific ways
-There are more

These points have been discussed in depth so I won't dwell on them. I don't want to criticize anything here, I'm just compiling a few observations.

Due to these reasons, I tend to keep my empire small. 2-3 stations and a few dozen ships. Every time I bust that amount, there's so much micro-management to do that I get bored out of my skull and have to stop playing for a while, and I'm sure I'm not the only one (although I might be far from the typical X player). So I guess a lot of people just don't get to the point where HR stuff is really a must, because they have problem with other stuff first.


But anyway, should the end-game be more developed in the next game, then I really hope we'll see some "HR assets" like the ones you just suggested.
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Thu, 8. Dec 16, 17:41

Ezarkal wrote:...I think the big problem is, the game was never really intended to get the player to the point where it has that many assets. It allows us to do it, to buy more ships and to build more stations, but they never optimized the game towards developing that much.

There are a lot of sign for this
-The lack of true end-game objective outside "expand more and make more money"
-The unfriendliness of the property window for managing more than a few dozen of assets are a good sign of this.
-The exponential amount of micro-management involved that you just mentioned
-Limited AI command to"program" station and assets into behaving in more specific ways
-There are more
...
Split say... yes! My perception is identical: to me, the game also feels as though it wasn't built with the large empire in mind. For me, that's a big problem, because typically, after about a week of in-game time, I tend to have 15~20 stations, at least half of them fully developed, with multiple freighters each (and miners where needed, of course), at least one combat capital ship attached to each station, M-sized freighters and fighters where appropriate, and a budding fleet. That is the slowest I can go, I simply can't go any slower.

If I were to stop at a smaller empire, each game would last me just 4 or 5 game days (so, what, maybe 2 weeks real time, at the very most?) - with 6~8 months between playthroughs, that's a pretty poor ratio (I guess that's what X3TC/AP is there for, for me to go back to for a longer-term engaging experience :D ) Even with the way I play (usually quitting around the time I have ~30 stations, if I've managed to slow-roll the plot to last me that long), I can only stick with the game for up to about 3 weeks, a month tops - as you say, the menial stuff ends up getting so overwhelmingly mind-numbing, that the game stops being fun (in fact, to be perfectly honest with myself, I think I tend to push considerably PAST the point where boredom sets in...)

OFF TOPIC: X3TC/AP does suffer from something similar, though I am normally able to make it last longer. However, most importantly, I can restart and play it totally differently (different race, priorities, style, approach, overall philosophy), whereas in XR each game feels nearly identical (the edge explorer, or whatever it's called, starts different enough, but eventually settles into the exact same groove.)
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Post by mr.WHO » Thu, 8. Dec 16, 20:01

+1 for OP idea. This is badly needed feature for next R patch and must have for next game.

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Post by UniTrader » Thu, 8. Dec 16, 20:49

i personally would go for a more automated/diffrent approach:

basic Staff for all Player Property is auto-hired (like currently the Captains on built Ships) although their Skills are all crappy. But they will improve over time while doing their Job. You can get Skilled staff faster by Hiring them yourself (and placing them on a Shipyard/CV before the Build completes so they are transferred there instead of just hiring the next person in line. Also allow Surplus Crew to be transferred to Ships/Stations for "Storage"* - they wont learn anything this way, but it keeps the back room of the Skunk more spacious. Also allow direct Personal Transfers between Ships/Stations bypassing the Skunk completely - you are the Boss, not the Taxi Driver..


*usually only to player property of course, but also to Ship Builder Platforms to "assign" Crews to a new Ship in advance.
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Thu, 8. Dec 16, 21:10

Your ideas are not mutually exclusive with mine - in fact, I envision much of the same (including the training of skills by using them - to me that's logical, natural, and even realistic.)
UniTrader wrote:...Also allow direct Personal Transfers between Ships/Stations bypassing the Skunk completely - you are the Boss, not the Taxi Driver...
So much +1 to this! That's also part of what I propose (by means of, say, the personnel transports I mentioned) - I understand early in the game being personally involved in each new hiring, but soon enough the player's role outgrows that. You don't see company CEOs hiring new staff (except perhaps taking on new board members or top-level executives), much less actually showing new hires to their desks! :D

Part of my notion would involve a master list of available employees (the scale would have to be decided: would it be per sector, or per system? In my opinion, per zone would be too small a scope - although, this is perhaps something that could also be upgraded, a la radar's effect on trade range.) Employees could be chosen from the list and assigned to respective positions, and costs could be charged based on quality of new hire, distance to be moved, and so forth. Player-owned people-movers could be worked into this in some way, perhaps, maybe reducing the transportation cost, and/or speeding up the process.
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Post by UniTrader » Thu, 8. Dec 16, 21:44

RAVEN.myst wrote:Part of my notion would involve a master list of available employees (the scale would have to be decided: would it be per sector, or per system? In my opinion, per zone would be too small a scope - although, this is perhaps something that could also be upgraded, a la radar's effect on trade range.) Employees could be chosen from the list and assigned to respective positions, and costs could be charged based on quality of new hire, distance to be moved, and so forth. Player-owned people-movers could be worked into this in some way, perhaps, maybe reducing the transportation cost, and/or speeding up the process.
this would require that possible employees outside of the player zone actually exist (they dont - they are generated/removed on zone change)
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Thu, 8. Dec 16, 21:54

Pretty much the rest of what I propose doesn't exist yet, either - it would ALL need to be added to the game ;) (Realistically, the overhaul would probably be too extensive to make it into a patch, anyway... Well, hopefully the next title will have a better system.)
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Post by spankahontis » Fri, 9. Dec 16, 02:03

Or Staff with their own unique personalities, to be able to nurture a Manager with strengths in Mineral acquisition (Increases Mineral extraction by % Chance).

Or a Captain of a ship with the ability to target key parts of an enemy ships hull.
Imagine having a fleet of destroyers/bombers commanded by a unique Captain with special traits that take out enemy ships better than your average Captain.

You could have the same for negative traits.. But be able to notice Staff with potential and to nurture those employees to be stronger/better employees.

Personally I find hiring staff to be boring.. Essential when playing a business style game, but boring if your staff don't display their own personalities, good or bad.
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My most annoying Bugs list 6.0 Beta 4 + [All DLC]
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Nvidium Worshop Animation Enlarge Broken :(
Building Modules causes low frame rate :o
Massive Framerate drops freezing game! :doh:
Save Corrupted Fixed the Crash! :-D

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Post by BigBANGtheory » Fri, 9. Dec 16, 12:31

Ezarkal wrote:These are very good ideas.

I think the big problem is, the game was never really intended to get the player to the point where it has that many assets. It allows us to do it, to buy more ships and to build more stations, but they never optimized the game towards developing that much.

There are a lot of sign for this
-The lack of true end-game objective outside "expand more and make more money"
-The unfriendliness of the property window for managing more than a few dozen of assets are a good sign of this.
-The exponential amount of micro-management involved that you just mentioned
-Limited AI command to"program" station and assets into behaving in more specific ways
-There are more

These points have been discussed in depth so I won't dwell on them. I don't want to criticize anything here, I'm just compiling a few observations.

Due to these reasons, I tend to keep my empire small. 2-3 stations and a few dozen ships. Every time I bust that amount, there's so much micro-management to do that I get bored out of my skull and have to stop playing for a while, and I'm sure I'm not the only one (although I might be far from the typical X player). So I guess a lot of people just don't get to the point where HR stuff is really a must, because they have problem with other stuff first.

But anyway, should the end-game be more developed in the next game, then I really hope we'll see some "HR assets" like the ones you just suggested.
I think that covers it very well, as you say these points have been well discussed amongst the players for many years. I would simply add that imho X Universe is going nowhere fast as a franchise without some answers to these challenges. Whilst it might be a pain in the neck for ES to round the sandbox off in this way they can't rely on mods alone at the very least they need to get the late game features in and working for the mods to customize and create content for.

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Post by RAVEN.myst » Fri, 9. Dec 16, 15:54

BigBANGtheory wrote:.... imho X Universe is going nowhere fast as a franchise without some answers to these challenges. ... ES ... can't rely on mods alone at the very least they need to get the late game features in and working for the mods to customize and create content for.
Very very true (imo)
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Post by spankahontis » Wed, 14. Dec 16, 00:15

BigBANGtheory wrote:
I think that covers it very well, as you say these points have been well discussed amongst the players for many years. I would simply add that imho X Universe is going nowhere fast as a franchise without some answers to these challenges. Whilst it might be a pain in the neck for ES to round the sandbox off in this way they can't rely on mods alone at the very least they need to get the late game features in and working for the mods to customize and create content for.

I agree, can't be like Skyrim where some of the survival mods made it into Fallout 4.

There just isn't enough modders to effect decisions in Egosoft.
It's down to them in the end and pray it increases sales, enough to draw in new modders, enough to make something that makes Egosoft turn their Heads and add it to future builds.

But they seriously need to find a way to break this little wall of secrecy, even if it isn't Rebirth/Rebirth 2 related.
Breath some life into the forum, draw the crowds.
Ragna-Tech.. Forging a Better Tomorrow!

My most annoying Bugs list 6.0 Beta 4 + [All DLC]
--------------------------------
Nvidium Worshop Animation Enlarge Broken :(
Building Modules causes low frame rate :o
Massive Framerate drops freezing game! :doh:
Save Corrupted Fixed the Crash! :-D

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Post by dfm5000 » Mon, 26. Dec 16, 14:33

spankahontis wrote:
BigBANGtheory wrote:
I think that covers it very well, as you say these points have been well discussed amongst the players for many years. I would simply add that imho X Universe is going nowhere fast as a franchise without some answers to these challenges. Whilst it might be a pain in the neck for ES to round the sandbox off in this way they can't rely on mods alone at the very least they need to get the late game features in and working for the mods to customize and create content for.

I agree, can't be like Skyrim where some of the survival mods made it into Fallout 4.

There just isn't enough modders to effect decisions in Egosoft.
It's down to them in the end and pray it increases sales, enough to draw in new modders, enough to make something that makes Egosoft turn their Heads and add it to future builds.

But they seriously need to find a way to break this little wall of secrecy, even if it isn't Rebirth/Rebirth 2 related.
Breath some life into the forum, draw the crowds.
QA between customer and Egosoft.

Customer:
Ok well can you atleast, give us that turret that was suppose to be on the back of the Albion pride?

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Customer:
Why didn't you guys give these ships interiors, rather then riding a ship like it's surf board. I've been hearing rumors of an update for X-Rebirth, have you guys come to your senses and decided to give us interiors for ships?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3rfOGc4_Zg

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Post by ezra-r » Thu, 29. Dec 16, 12:46

I ended up coming to the conclusion that having to hire by default one by one is a waste of time and crashing of enjoyment, I call it a "GAME DRAG".

For me the most logical choice to get rid of this annoying drag in one fell swoop would be to have:

* When you buy a ship, an option (another menu entry/step with a drop down menu for the number of stars for each bundle of staff) to hire staff, paying more for better qualified staff, with little modification, if you pay for top staff, most would be 5 star qualified or very near it. This saves you the hassle and you can pay low quality staff for those ships you don't need to have highly skilled ones (p.e. mining?)

* When you buy a CV or build station you have the same option, but that includes two sections (or menu screens when buying), staff for CV itself and staff for the Station, and you choose the skill in the same fashion.

So later in the game if you bought anything with low skilled personel and you want to change it, you can in the same fashion it is done now, but saves you from all that tedious initial hire hire hire hire come back forth yada yada yada yada.
Last edited by ezra-r on Sun, 1. Jan 17, 10:12, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by RAVEN.myst » Thu, 29. Dec 16, 13:40

"Game drag" - I like that (well, the term, not the actual instances of it, hehehe!) Yes, as I pointed out (I think in my opening post - it was a while ago, and I couldn't be bothered to go back and check), as the game progresses, I find that the staff hiring and firing (which has to be done so repetitively in order to get decent crew) occupies more and more of my in-game time, until I get sick of it and find something else to play :P (in fact, I did precisely that about 2 weeks ago... My Rebirth game had advanced to that stage where everything feels monotonous - hiring/firing, build another station *yawn* even though I don't need credits, because I can't spend them as fast as I make them anyway, ditto more ships, also because there is no real reason to make bigger fleets - there are no scaling challenges...)
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