x3:ap CIG vs ISR

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firestorm79
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x3:ap CIG vs ISR

Post by firestorm79 » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 10:59

Just trynig to figure out the best loadout for my awesome overtuned (scored 209 at the first roll and kept it!) Hype!

I can't decide between 4 x ISR or 4 x CIG... I use the remaining 4 for PBG for when I get closer to my quarry...

I can't find the full stats for these for Albion Prelude... but the TC web sites seem to suggest that there is no competition and that ISR wins hands down, yet there are so many forums suggesting CIGs as a better loadout...

I'm not worried about energy consumption because the Hype has a beast of a battery and I have never struggled with energy useage (especially because all my front turrets use EBC). So over to you guys...

firestorm79
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Post by firestorm79 » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 14:14

apologies for bumping, but has no-one got any strong feelings about this?!?

Idleking
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Post by Idleking » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:13

If you don't mind the german texts, check this table for your weapons.
The ISR is indeed a better choice. It has a higher rate of fire, more dps on hull and shields and a higher projectile speed.
It eats up a bit more energy, but meh, short bursts instead of fixing your trigger with duct-tape is a more reliable way of getting the job done anyway ;)

So, to sum it up: ISR wins, no questions asked.
As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

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Lone Jedi
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Post by Lone Jedi » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:15

There was a similar thread of long discussion few months ago.
I live in my Vidar.

Laser hit efficiency: 97% @190,499 shots
Missile hit efficiency: 97% @4,204 missiles fired

Lone Jedi
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Post by Lone Jedi » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:21

Idleking wrote:If you don't mind the german texts, check this table for your weapons.
The ISR is indeed a better choice. It has a higher rate of fire, more dps on hull and shields and a higher projectile speed.
It eats up a bit more energy, but meh, short bursts instead of fixing your trigger with duct-tape is a more reliable way of getting the job done anyway ;)

So, to sum it up: ISR wins, no questions asked.
Ask again!

Theories and implementations can be very different. What good will a weapon be if it tends to miss the targets a lot? That's ISR. Bullet size matters, and that cannot be learnt from your tables.
I live in my Vidar.

Laser hit efficiency: 97% @190,499 shots
Missile hit efficiency: 97% @4,204 missiles fired

Idleking
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Post by Idleking » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 15:47

And what good will a weapon be if its projectiles tend to push around small targets so that any other projectiles fired after the first will automatically miss because the target is off course? That's CIG.

Well, guess it's more a matter of the target's size than the projectile's if you want to play that 'size does matter' card.
As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

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Litcube wrote:Don't succumb to the "I figured it'd be ok".

GCU Grey Area
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Post by GCU Grey Area » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 16:03

Idleking wrote:And what good will a weapon be if its projectiles tend to push around small targets so that any other projectiles fired after the first will automatically miss because the target is off course? That's CIG.
Can be countered if you treat CIGs as a shotgun - pull the trigger once to fire off all guns simultaneously, then fire again if the target is still there, repeat as necessary. Firing in bursts like this minimises the number of missed shots due to the target spinning around though obviously it does have an impact on DPS.

ISRs can be used more like a machine gun - hose down the target until it's killed. Simpler approach but only works for ships with the energy reserves & regen to cope with ISR's prodigious energy consumption rate (such as Hyperion).

Ultimately it's really a matter for individual player choice. Both weapons are very effective but some players will get better results from CIG, others ISR. Best approach is to try both. Personally prefer ISR for any ship which can cope with it's energy drain.

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heratik
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Post by heratik » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 16:07

I tend to stick with EBC, just hold that trigger! Although I play TC, so EBCs weaker hull damage is not such an issue as it is with AP...

ajax34i
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Post by ajax34i » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 16:09

You have enough cargo to carry a whole bunch of stuff, so load up 8 CIGs, 8 HEPTs, and 8 PBG's. The CIGs can be for shooting M6 or M7's, as well as the occasional fighter. The 8 HEPTs + 4 (in the front turrets) will let you "dogfight" with it, and actually 8 HEPTs simulate the feel of 8 ISRs pretty well. And switch to PBG for close up attacking small or big ships.

You can also carry a tractor beam, mobile mining system, 2 PBE's in case you want to capture M3's (remember to order your turrets off and just shoot the PBE's manually), and don't forget the missiles.

Honved
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Post by Honved » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 17:35

As pointed out by various posters, the nature of the target and your own ship dictates which is the more effective gun.

I tried ISRs for a while, and the higher speed of the projectiles is quite noticeable, insuring more hits at range against faster targets. While the gun has an amazing ability to "chew up" M3+, M8, M6, and larger targets, its small bullet size tends to miss smaller M5 and M4 targets to a frustrating degree. The high rate of fire, with the individual rounds packing relatively light power, doesn't do much to the target if you land a lucky stray hit in passing, but any sustained impacts will quickly tear it apart. Once through the shields, it does even better than CIG in terms of Damage Per Second against hull, which is more important in AP than in TC.

The CIG, on the other hand, has a much lower Rate of Fire (RoF), but does significantly more damage with each "bullet". If/when you land a hit on an elusive M5, it's going to hurt.....a lot. Problem is, with somewhat larger targets in the M4+ and M3 category, it tends to toss them out of your line of fire, so you have to adjust, which means that they're probably past you.

Since I understand that the OOS combat system uses a set number of SHOTS per weapon, the CIG, with it's higher damage PER SHOT, will probably perform better than the ISR in that role.

Versus the average M3, I consider it a "wash"; pick whichever suits your taste.

[ I don't agree with the above poster, because HEPT fires an even slower and weaker projectile than ISR or CIG. I have problems hitting anything faster and smaller than an M8 or M3+ with them. The only reason to use HEPT is if your weapon generators aren't sufficient to handle multiple ISRs or CIGs. ]

Lone Jedi
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Post by Lone Jedi » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 19:56

Idleking wrote:And what good will a weapon be if its projectiles tend to push around small targets so that any other projectiles fired after the first will automatically miss because the target is off course? That's CIG.

Well, guess it's more a matter of the target's size than the projectile's if you want to play that 'size does matter' card.
So you just confirmed your statement of "ISR wins without questions" of the 1st post was totally wrong.
I live in my Vidar.

Laser hit efficiency: 97% @190,499 shots
Missile hit efficiency: 97% @4,204 missiles fired

firestorm79
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Post by firestorm79 » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 20:35

Well at least I wasn't totally nuts in thinking it was a tough decision...

At the moment I'm just face rolling everything with the hype so I guess the point is moot. My cargo bay has 4 x cig and 4 x isr. I keep 4 x PBG on my secondary weapons array (there's nothing better than the PBG when you get to under 1k).

When I start regularly encountering Qs and Carracks I guess I'll have to decide.

Isr is supposed to have a secondary effect of draining the target ship's energy. Does anyone know if it works? Cos that would be huge selling point for me...

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werewolves?
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Post by werewolves? » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 22:08

I find I'm better with the CIG because of the bullet size. Even if it knocks a ship off course it's pretty easy to juggle them.

ajm317
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Post by ajm317 » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 22:23

firestorm79 wrote:Isr is supposed to have a secondary effect of draining the target ship's energy. Does anyone know if it works? Cos that would be huge selling point for me...
It does work, although to be honest I only really notice it against M1's. Anything smaller than an M7 dies under ISR fire before weapon energy becomes an issue. There is some effect on M7's but they tear through weapon energy pretty fast on their own with no help from you, although it can help to keep the flak down if you like to get close. M2's laser reactors are big enough that the ISR's energy drain doesn't amount to much.

I usually prefer the CIG just due to energy efficiency. ISR's eat energy like a capital weapon.

Idleking
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Post by Idleking » Mon, 12. Aug 13, 22:29

Lone Jedi wrote:So you just confirmed your statement of "ISR wins without questions" of the 1st post was totally wrong.
I may have been a bit overenthusiastic in my first reply, maybe.
But from my experience, the ISR beats the CIG. CIG might have a bigger projectile and a slightly greater range, but I only engage M7 and above at max. weaponrange.
So, from my point of view, I have no reason to use CIG for reasons mentioned above.
As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

Image
Litcube wrote:Don't succumb to the "I figured it'd be ok".

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