Economics of boarding actions in X:TC?
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Economics of boarding actions in X:TC?
So, I just capped a Hyperion Vanguard with 60% hull and 2X ISR's at a cost of 5 fighter drones and 3 (2 star average) marines...
needless to say I'm EXTREMELY happy since boarding is fun AND the only way to get a Hyp.
HOWEVER, thinking about it, cost wise, it seems as if the Hyperion cost me quite a bit for a stolen (free ) ship!
Those dead marines had 3 stars in mechanical skill and 1 or 2 stars everywhere else. They represented a huge investment in time and money for basically a 60% discount on a stripped Hyperion....
I was thinking of capturing a TL of some sort next, (and I might still do that for fun) but I wonder if it might not be cheaper to just buy one.
So, what do you matheletes think? Does it make economic sense to take capital ships that one can buy from a shipyard?
EDIT: I meant to say 60% hull not shields
needless to say I'm EXTREMELY happy since boarding is fun AND the only way to get a Hyp.
HOWEVER, thinking about it, cost wise, it seems as if the Hyperion cost me quite a bit for a stolen (free ) ship!
Those dead marines had 3 stars in mechanical skill and 1 or 2 stars everywhere else. They represented a huge investment in time and money for basically a 60% discount on a stripped Hyperion....
I was thinking of capturing a TL of some sort next, (and I might still do that for fun) but I wonder if it might not be cheaper to just buy one.
So, what do you matheletes think? Does it make economic sense to take capital ships that one can buy from a shipyard?
EDIT: I meant to say 60% hull not shields
Last edited by H.F._Mudd on Thu, 1. Aug 13, 14:15, edited 1 time in total.
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When time is factored in, usually not. I very rarely board, and only then for uniques (whilst restricting myself to my usual permanent total war rules as opposed to stealing a nice Tyr and then casually apologising. ).
Although the time to train marines is obviously not actually losing you money (unless you just sit there doing nothing watching them train, or SETA and walk away, which I suppose could be tempting.) the sheer time taken means that if(when) they die you can't help but feel you've wasted your time.
As I said, I hardly ever board anyway so I'm not the sort of person who'd just grab TLs, they're so cheap and there are so many ways to get that amount of money pouring in in minutes...
Although the time to train marines is obviously not actually losing you money (unless you just sit there doing nothing watching them train, or SETA and walk away, which I suppose could be tempting.) the sheer time taken means that if(when) they die you can't help but feel you've wasted your time.
As I said, I hardly ever board anyway so I'm not the sort of person who'd just grab TLs, they're so cheap and there are so many ways to get that amount of money pouring in in minutes...
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If you consider that a "reasonably" trained Marine will cost in the neighborhood of a Million credits, that's 2 Mil for a 10-15 Mil ship in moderately damaged condition.....not a bad deal if you ask me. With another 100K or so into Engineering, that could easily have been 80% condition, and with another star in Fighting, the cost could have been FREE, aside from the trivial fee to replace a few lost drones.
To me, capping ships is generally something to do if/when the occasion presents itself, not something that I actively pursue (other than in a few games where I'm after some specific ship that's not purchasable).
Since I usually use a mod to add buyable Repair Lasers to the game. At around a half-million credit's, they're unaffordable in the early stages of the game, but when money is no longer an issue, they save a LOT of time and hassle in repairing damaged ships. It seriously impacts how the game is played, and makes ship capping/bailing ridiculously lucrative, since you can fix any damage before selling the ship (or keeping and refitting it).
To me, capping ships is generally something to do if/when the occasion presents itself, not something that I actively pursue (other than in a few games where I'm after some specific ship that's not purchasable).
Since I usually use a mod to add buyable Repair Lasers to the game. At around a half-million credit's, they're unaffordable in the early stages of the game, but when money is no longer an issue, they save a LOT of time and hassle in repairing damaged ships. It seriously impacts how the game is played, and makes ship capping/bailing ridiculously lucrative, since you can fix any damage before selling the ship (or keeping and refitting it).
I usually just buy, because not only the cost of marines, but also the cost of repairing the ship can be as much as the ship costs new. And you're not going to be able to suit repair laser an M6 or above.
That said, with trained marines you shouldn't lose them at all with Commonwealth ships. Terran ships and Xenon are tougher, and you may lose marines there.
And you need to train Fighting, not just the breach skills, so TL's or other easy ships are pretty much the only way to do that.
The Hyperion and other rare ships are not sold at shipyards, so whether they're "worth it" depends on you. Obviously, if you don't think it's worth it, don't try to board the ship. I think the Hyperion is worth it, and there are a few other ships that also may be:
M6 Argon Heavy Centaur Prototype - decent small-threat patrol ship due to its speed and shielding.
M6 Xenon P - 24 RPM turning on an M6 means it's a dogfighter, deadly in your hands.
M7 Agamemnon (not sold) - has big shields and many IBL slots and thus will win most fights OOS. Sucks as a player ship due to its big blind spots above and below, but those don't matter OOS.
M7 Pirate Carrack - like the look of the ship. IBLs in side turrets aren't as great as IBLs as main guns, but the ship looks cool and should be easy to capture.
M2 ATF Tyr - has its issues with its cargo hold, but it's a pretty good M2 to have. Can survive a Q attack OOS.
M0 ATF Valhalla - it's an M2 and M1 (60 ships) with a billion guns and 14 GJ shielding.
M1 Aran (UFJD sectors) - No guns, 120,000 cargo space, can dock capital class ships - it's a pretty good warehouse / mobile base.
That said, with trained marines you shouldn't lose them at all with Commonwealth ships. Terran ships and Xenon are tougher, and you may lose marines there.
And you need to train Fighting, not just the breach skills, so TL's or other easy ships are pretty much the only way to do that.
The Hyperion and other rare ships are not sold at shipyards, so whether they're "worth it" depends on you. Obviously, if you don't think it's worth it, don't try to board the ship. I think the Hyperion is worth it, and there are a few other ships that also may be:
M6 Argon Heavy Centaur Prototype - decent small-threat patrol ship due to its speed and shielding.
M6 Xenon P - 24 RPM turning on an M6 means it's a dogfighter, deadly in your hands.
M7 Agamemnon (not sold) - has big shields and many IBL slots and thus will win most fights OOS. Sucks as a player ship due to its big blind spots above and below, but those don't matter OOS.
M7 Pirate Carrack - like the look of the ship. IBLs in side turrets aren't as great as IBLs as main guns, but the ship looks cool and should be easy to capture.
M2 ATF Tyr - has its issues with its cargo hold, but it's a pretty good M2 to have. Can survive a Q attack OOS.
M0 ATF Valhalla - it's an M2 and M1 (60 ships) with a billion guns and 14 GJ shielding.
M1 Aran (UFJD sectors) - No guns, 120,000 cargo space, can dock capital class ships - it's a pretty good warehouse / mobile base.
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Well, a good marine crew will almost never lose soldiers unless you are capping with low amount or you are trying something very special (xenon ships or similar). Yes, you can lose men on pods due to flak or anti-missile fire... but if you spam with wasp-missile, your pods will touchdown without voes (on cost-effective M2 and M1 caps the wasp-spam will even keep the shields down... winwin).
With good marines and a time-efficient setup (tank ship+M7M w/pods) it's a pretty decent way to make some coins. An M2 or M1 in decent nick brings in about 50 million credits, and I'm guessing it takes 10-15 min per boarding.
However, I don't do it for coins personally. I do it for resource (recycle at the HQ) and to farm for IBLs - because I can't be bothered to befriend scum like the Yaki or pirates.
With good marines and a time-efficient setup (tank ship+M7M w/pods) it's a pretty decent way to make some coins. An M2 or M1 in decent nick brings in about 50 million credits, and I'm guessing it takes 10-15 min per boarding.
However, I don't do it for coins personally. I do it for resource (recycle at the HQ) and to farm for IBLs - because I can't be bothered to befriend scum like the Yaki or pirates.
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Carrack is actually a bloody good cap engine for M1s and M2s. It is fast enough to escape them, has a very narrow and "simple" profile to manouver tactically and the turrets can fire at very good angles. It's also tough enough to take out fighters without problems.ajax34i wrote:[...]
M7 Pirate Carrack - like the look of the ship. IBLs in side turrets aren't as great as IBLs as main guns, but the ship looks cool and should be easy to capture.[...]
And in the background the M7M lurks and waits for the opportunity.
Pluss, capturing ship in a pirate Carrack. That's just cool. That little steamhead in the 1st person view is also insanely fun to turn around and bring down on your target; A pirate's life for me!
While at first it doesn't make great economical sense to capture ships, once you have a 20+ quota of marines all 5* in ALL skills, the rewards are massive.
By the time you have this, you will not lose marines (unless you go after Xenon ships and maybe some Terran), and the combination of your marines skill and your, by then, increased proficiency at boarding will ensure ships are turned over to you with very little hull damage. Making the cost of the cap just the cost of hammers/flails for your M7M
In my last game, I amassed over 600 million just from the proceeds of boarding (man, did those pirates hate me), and that was just the ones I sold, I also had a personal fleet of well over 50 capped M1/2/7
I also acquired over the time I was boarding nearly 200 each IBL and PPC plus many FAA, Shields etc. With PPC at nearly 1 million each, you do the math, and with IBL, being so hard to acquire in large numbers through trade/construction, the nearly 1 million price tag on each of those is not nearly an accurate estimation of what they are really 'worth' if you have a decent fleet of M7s
In the long term, boarding is EXTREMELY profitable. It takes no more than 10 minutes to capture a pirate capital, which you can then sell for about 50 million if I remember correctly...
By the time you have this, you will not lose marines (unless you go after Xenon ships and maybe some Terran), and the combination of your marines skill and your, by then, increased proficiency at boarding will ensure ships are turned over to you with very little hull damage. Making the cost of the cap just the cost of hammers/flails for your M7M
In my last game, I amassed over 600 million just from the proceeds of boarding (man, did those pirates hate me), and that was just the ones I sold, I also had a personal fleet of well over 50 capped M1/2/7
I also acquired over the time I was boarding nearly 200 each IBL and PPC plus many FAA, Shields etc. With PPC at nearly 1 million each, you do the math, and with IBL, being so hard to acquire in large numbers through trade/construction, the nearly 1 million price tag on each of those is not nearly an accurate estimation of what they are really 'worth' if you have a decent fleet of M7s
In the long term, boarding is EXTREMELY profitable. It takes no more than 10 minutes to capture a pirate capital, which you can then sell for about 50 million if I remember correctly...
I'm not so sure about that, you can't kite with your main guns.ajax34i wrote:IBLs in side turrets aren't as great as IBLs as main guns
I like loading the turrets with PBC's. Insta hit means you can turn the damage on/off instantly and avoid hull damage while stripping the shields, plus you never miss, even at max range.tindebroed wrote:Carrack is actually a bloody good cap engine for M1s and M2s. It is fast enough to escape them, has a very narrow and "simple" profile to manouver tactically and the turrets can fire at very good angles. It's also tough enough to take out fighters without problems.
And in the background the M7M lurks and waits for the opportunity.
Pluss, capturing ship in a pirate Carrack. That's just cool. That little steamhead in the 1st person view is also insanely fun to turn around and bring down on your target; A pirate's life for me!
Yeah, but the OP is talking about TC, which doesn't have that option.ajm317 wrote:...
I like loading the turrets with PBC's. Insta hit means you can turn the damage on/off instantly and avoid hull damage while stripping the shields, plus you never miss, even at max range.
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If you're playing TC, spacesuit repairing is totally feasible. It takes an age for a capital, but I repaired both of my recently acquired Akumas that way. I put a stack of quarters on the Ctrl key, then went into the other room and watched some Walking Dead. I guess it would technically be feasible in AP too, but with the increased hull values...yeah.
You're right, stolen ships really aren't "free" once you consider the time and money spent on the marines, ships, missiles, etc. But I'd still say it's profitable overall, especially once your marines are better trained and you're not losing some on every op. Aside from the economic aspect of it, though, it's just plain fun.
You're right, stolen ships really aren't "free" once you consider the time and money spent on the marines, ships, missiles, etc. But I'd still say it's profitable overall, especially once your marines are better trained and you're not losing some on every op. Aside from the economic aspect of it, though, it's just plain fun.
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once you have it set up to get unique ships you can use that investment to bring in 40% hulls and stocks of 20-30 or more large weapons giving you 40 million for selling them. If you just want the ship itself cap 4 or 5 other capitol ships, sell them and buy what you want. Especially if you take into account race relations and that time so you're not attacking the Argon. You also get unique weapons like ibl's.
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Instead of doing this, just eject the SETA software from a ship. Then jump out in your spacesuit and pick it up.darth_adversor wrote:If you're playing TC, spacesuit repairing is totally feasible. It takes an age for a capital, but I repaired both of my recently acquired Akumas that way. I put a stack of quarters on the Ctrl key, then went into the other room and watched some Walking Dead. I guess it would technically be feasible in AP too, but with the increased hull values...yeah.
Now you can SETA in your spacesuit.
In order to fire your repair laser at the same time while using SETA, hold down ctrl to fire and while you are holding down ctrl, press and hold down j to activate SETA.
You will then be able to repair while SETA is on.
I'll see you on the other side!
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I saw a comment somewhere recently about running out of air in the spacesuit, but I thought it was a joke. That's an actual threat? What's the time limit?
Thanks for the tip Berserk, I never thought to try that.
Thanks for the tip Berserk, I never thought to try that.
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