Tall Glass Ice and Water Company daily report

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Timsup2nothin
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Tall Glass Ice and Water Company daily report

Post by Timsup2nothin » Mon, 18. Feb 13, 01:21

This is sort of like a DiD, except that I die all the time from flying into things so it really isn't. It is the daily report of a basically independent company in my current game. The purpose is to provide an example of how CLS freighters can be set up to provide returns far in excess of what sector traders do, with even less effort.

For those who are already proficient at programming CLS ships I apologize for the excruciating level of detail. For those who appreciate the level of detail you are welcome. The first day is long.

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TGIWC daily report, game day three.

The company was founded on game day three at a cost of 14.5 million credits with these initial assets:

14 ships with cargo capacity 3000, no weapons, shields, or upgrades. Equipped with CLS 2 and Nav Command software only and valued at 200,000 each. (based on shipyard price of a mercury)

7 ships with cargo capacity 6000, no weapons, shields, or upgrades. Equipped with CLS 2 and Nav Command software only and valued at 600,000 each. (based on shipyard price of a mercury hauler)

9 Baldric freighters with cargo capacity 3010, fully upgraded for speed and maneuvering. Equipped with one 25 MJ shield, CLS 2 and Nav Command software and valued at 500,000 each. (based on shipyard price of a baldric freighter)

1 ship with capacity 9000. no weapons, shields, upgrades, or equipment of any kind and valued at one million credits. (based on our founder having stolen the freighter and paying for an expensive cargo bay expansion without any idea what such a freighter might actually cost)

One headquarters structure in Jupiter sector consisting of two large argnu cattle ranches and a complex hub, both factories having production shut off, and initially funded with 300,000 credits. Valued at two million credits.

Total 31 ships, all assigned to the HQ as homebase with CLS set to pay from station account.

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Our environment

At time of founding we were aware of seven ice collection facilities, four large and three medium, and seven medium water purification plants.

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Delivery of equipment

One capacity 3000 freighter delivered to each ice mine.

One capacity 3000 freighter and one 6000 capacity freighter delivered to each water purifier.

The 9000 capacity freighter delivered to headquarters in Jupiter sector.

----------------------------------------------------

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TTD
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Post by TTD » Mon, 18. Feb 13, 01:46

One headquarters structure in Jupiter sector consisting of two large argnu cattle ranches and a complex hub,
So you have made your first complex and calling it your HQ, correct ?
Not that you have already done the PHQ plot.

OK, I am interested to see how this develops.

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Post by Timsup2nothin » Mon, 18. Feb 13, 01:58

Game Day 3 continued

Initial Staffing, Ice operations

Each of the ships delivered to an ice mine is renamed 'TGIWC Ice Supply Shed XYZ', with XYZ indicating its location. Apprentice pilots assigned using commands 'start cls', 'waypoints', 'add waypoints','add station'. They receive two waypoints in a single stop using 'fly to station' and selecting their assigned ice mine, then another 'add waypoints' selecting their assigned mine and using 'buy', 'ice', then choosing 'minimum price' and 'maximum cargospace'.

(note: ships just parked in a station may be 'kicked out' now and then. The 'fly to station' waypoint will get them docked back up ASAP rather than having them wait for the station to hit their buy price. Since they have no shields this is a good precaution. For waypoint limit purposes, our apprentice being limited to four, this 'double stop' only counts as one. It is impossible to 'double stop' a fourth waypoint for an apprentice since once there are four waypoints you can't choose 'add station' or 'add ship'.)

Each of the 3000 capacity ships delivered to a purifier is renamed 'TGIWC Ice Delivery Shed XYZ', with XYZ indicating its location. Apprentice pilots are assigned the same way as the supply sheds, substituting 'sell' for 'buy' and 'average price' for 'minimum price'

An apprentice pilot is assigned to each of four baldrics, renamed 'TGIWC Ice Transfer XYZ', with XYZ indicating the area of operation.

There is a large mine in Jupiter 2, another in Jupiter 3, and two purifiers in Jupiter 3. TGIWC Ice Transfer Jupiter is assigned four waypoints using 'add waypoints', and 'add ship' four times, with these parameters:
Jupiter 2, TGIWC Ice Supply Shed Jupiter 2 Alpha, load, minerals, ice, maximum cargospace
Jupiter 3, TGIWC Ice Delivery Shed Jupiter 3 Alpha, unload, minerals, ice, maximum cargospace
Jupiter 3, TGIWC Ice Supply Shed Jupiter 3 Alpha, load, minerals, ice, maximum cargospace
Jupiter 3 TGIWC Ice Delivery Shed Jupiter 3 Beta, unload, minerals, ice, maximum cargospace

The expectation is that the Ice Supply Sheds will always be full, since these two ice mines could actually supply eight purifiers between them. The alternating load and unloads divides the demand, since every time an unload occurs the transfer freighter will cyle through its waypoint list (on 'standby') until it hits an opportunity to load, which it should hit right away. Note that once the freighter is loaded it will continuously check through its entire list until it finds an opportunity to unload, it will unload to whichever delivery shed is empty first.

So these five freighters are all going to sit, filled with ice. As soon as a purifier uses enough ice to raise the buying price to average (128) the delivery shed will make the sale. The transfer freighter will recognize the empty delivery shed and fly over to refill it, arriving well before the purifier wants more ice, then fly to the appropriate supply shed to reload. As soon as it empties the supply shed the supply shed will execute a buy at minimum (50) since these ice mines massively overproduce and are always full. The transfer freighter will then sit until the next delivery call.

If some NPC freighter comes along and buys ice it may take a while for the supply shed to refill. This is going to be a rare issue since once an NPC freighter buys ice it enters the zone of the 'permanently loaded' because it will never sell below average price, and we keep the purifiers from paying above average. If one shed takes a while getting refilled, no problem because the transfer freighter is already full, and will refill at the other supply shed if necessary.

Three more apprentices are assigned to ice transfer freighters Saturn, Uranus, and Pluto.

'Saturn' services purifiers in Saturn 2 and Uranus 2 using supplies from a large mine in Uranus 2 and a medium mine in Uranus 3. Note that a single M mine will NOT keep up with an M purifier, but since the L mine can actually supply four purifiers this should again result in all five freighters being constantly full.

'Uranus' services purifiers in Uranus and Neptune using supplies from the OTHER large mine in Uranus 2 and a second medium mine in Uranus 3.

'Pluto' services a purifier in Pluto, supplied by all three M mines in Uranus 2 with the one that is otherwise unused being listed first. It will use that one almost every time, but the purifier will need more than it can provide. If the shed there is still empty when delivery is made the transfer ship will skip the waypoint, but as long as either of the other supply sheds is full it will head for Uranus 2. If that shed is empty when it arrives (due to our other transfer ships) it will cycle through its list looking for a place that it can load...and it will already be in Uranus 3 so it will be a quick trip when it finds one.

When Ice Operations initiated there was a period of filling. Supply sheds filled immediately. Transfer freighters filled immediately. Supply sheds refilled pretty quickly. Delivery sheds filled as fast as the transfer ships could arrive. Each freighter holds 375 units, and at 50 credits per unit buying all this ice cost 337,500 credits. The initial capital of 300,000 credits in the station account would not cover this amount, but as long as ONE delivery shed made the sale (48000 credits) during the fill process there would be no problem. In reality most delivery sheds immediately sold the first load they received and station balance never dipped below 150,000 credits.

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Post by Timsup2nothin » Mon, 18. Feb 13, 03:23

Game Day three continued even more...after about two hours.

Initial Staffing, water operations

Each of the 6000 capacity ships delivered to a purifier is renamed TGIWC Water Supply Tank XYZ'. Apprentice pilots are assigned. The usual 'fly to station' command, plus 'buy', 'bio', 'water', 'manual price' at 31 (one below average), 'max cargo space'.

(note: Since the tank is always in the station it will IMMEDIATELY buy as soon as the price drops below average. No NPC hauler will EVER buy water from any purifier since they will only buy at a below average price. So we can charge whatever we want. The practical limit is that the supply tank has to be emptied in time so it can make another purchase when the price gets back to 31, so our distribution freighters have to pick up, deliver, and return in that time...twice, since the supply tank is exactly twice the effective capacity of the distribution freighters)

The big unmanned freighter docked at company HQ is renamed TGIWC Water Transfer Tank HQ'. Obviously it is given no orders at all being just a big dumb tank.

The five remaining baldric freighters have Logistician rated pilots, having been involved since game day one in moving stuff around to keep the ice mines from being eliminated due to oversupply. They get reprogrammed by 'start cls', 'waypoints', 'delete all waypoints', 'yes'. Then renamed 'TGIWC Water Distribution XYZ', as usual referring to their area of operation. They are 'Jupiter', 'Saturn', 'Uranus', 'Outer System', and 'Mars' respectively.

'Jupiter' gets its waypoint list by 'waypoints', 'add ship', sector Jupiter 2, 'load', 'bio', 'water', 'TGIWC Water Supply Tank Jupiter 2 Alpha'...followed by the same sequence for 'TGIWC Water Supply Tank Jupiter 3 Alpha'...then 'generate waypoints', sector Jupiter 2, 'range=1', 'sell', 'bio', 'water', 'Manual price=40', 'maximum cargospace', 'foreign stations only'. Then it gets 'add ship', sector Jupiter, 'TGIWC Water Transfer Tank HQ', 'unload', 'maximum cargospace'.

Now a tricky part. The 'generate waypoints' command produced waypoints for every station within one sector of Jupiter 2 that buys water, with a selling price of 40 and a full load delivery. BUT some of those stations use water as a secondary resource and when they are dead empty they will only pay 35. Identify those stations, click on them in the waypoint list, then 'edit waypoint', 'sell', 'bio', 'water', manual price=35, 'max cargospace'. Then click 'cut waypoint', go to the final waypoint on the list and click 'insert waypoint'.

Soooo...what TGIWC Water Distribution Jupiter is going to do is load up from whichever supply tank has water, then sell that water to any buyer that will pay forty or above. If there is no buyer that will pay forty or above it will unload at the transfer tank unless the tank is full. If the tank is full it will move on to secondary resource users and sell at 35. Remember, we need this water to move so we can pick up that second load and be ready for the other supply tank to fill up, but we want to get as much as we can so primary users come first.

Saturn distribution is similar. It gets the supply tanks in Saturn 2, Uranus, and Uranus 2. Then a 'generate waypoints' with range=1 centered on Saturn 2 and another with range=0 on Titan. Add the transfer tank, then edit all the secondary resource users to sell at 35 and cut them to the end of the list.

'Uranus' and 'Outer Systems' are subject to making LONG trips, so they get loads from Neptune and Pluto tanks. Since they share the tanks it is fair to think that between the two of them they will rapidly drain a tank that fills. Uranus delivery waypoints can be generated with three 'generate waypoints' range=0 commands, or by using a range=1 command centered on Uranus and deleting the Saturn and Neptune waypoints. 'Outer Systems' delivery waypoints cover Pluto, the Cloud, the Belt, and all the unknown sectors. Again, add the transfer tank and edit and cut the secondary resource buyers.

Which brings us to the transfer tank, now possibly being filled by four distribution freighters, though in practice the water shortage is currently so severe that it will probably be bone dry for a while. '...Distribution Mars' gets a 'add ship', sector Jupiter, 'load', 'bio', 'water', 'max cargospace', then delivery waypoints in Mars and Venus with yet again the secondary resource buyers edited and cut to the end.

It was vaguely possible that all seven supply tanks would fill before any deliveries were made, which would cost 651,000 credits. So water operations were not initiated until ice operations had produced a sufficient station balance. Hence the two hours.

----------------------------------------

Installation Complete

So that's it. A lot of initial setup work, but it's actually really simple and repetitive and goes really fast after a little practice. And these freighters will run, endlessly doing their own little jobs, pretty much forever if I never get around to doing anything more with this. BUT, there is expansion capacity built in.

The apprentices in the Ice Transfer freighters will progress. If the AI adds a purifier I install a delivery shed and a supply tank and it can be added to the nearest ice transfer freighter and water distribution freighter. If the AI doesn't add purifiers I will once I have access to the stations.

As I gain access to further interior sectors I can 'graduate' ice transfer pilots to water distribution to supply them, using another transfer tank parked somewhere in Venus and filled by the Mars distributor.

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Prospectus

Each water purifier consumes 300 ice per hour. We supply it all at a unit profit of 78 credits. 23,400 credits per hour per purifier on the ice side. Currently seven purifiers, so 163,800 credits per hour total on the ice side.

Each water purifier produces 2400 units per hour. In the long run we will distribute all of it at a minimum average unit profit of 10. 24,000 credits per hour per purifier on the water side. Currently seven purifiers, so 168,000 credits per hour total on the water side.

Total, 331,400 credits per hour expected for a recovery of 14.5 million investment in 43.75 hours.

In practice right now basically all water delivered is delivered to bone dry primary resource users at a price somewhere north of 50, so initial operating profits are much higher. Also in practice, rumor has it that our founder actually bought many of the ships used for sheds and tanks on the used market, or stole them outright, so the initial cash value invested is highly inflated. Tall Glass Ice and Water Company is in no way responsible for our founder's actions.

Timsup2nothin
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Mon, 18. Feb 13, 03:43

TTD wrote:
One headquarters structure in Jupiter sector consisting of two large argnu cattle ranches and a complex hub,
So you have made your first complex and calling it your HQ, correct ?
Not that you have already done the PHQ plot.

OK, I am interested to see how this develops.
Yeah. It's a 'company headquarters', not a player headquarters. If it were a company operating outside Terran space it would provide jump fuel for the company freighters. I build these companies to be functionally independent and minimally invasive to my game. I keep my shiplist set to 'don't show home based ships', and the HQ is the home base that keeps them out of my way. It also provides the separate station account so I can make a 'one stop' progress check on all companies by looking at my station list. In the HQ name I include the initial investment cost (because I take 10% every day, founder's dividend) and the number of ships. Click, look at 'owned ships' to make sure none have gotten into trouble, move on.

If there is a lot of credits in the station account I might spend some for them to expand their capacities or improve their security. I suspect that TGIWC Water Distribution Outer System will eventually be accompanied by a task force of protection provided by company funds, for instance. In most of my games 'mature' companies don't get any attention at all, though I'm pretty good about remembering to collect the dividends.

By about game day ten I will be collecting enough in 'founder's dividends' that I can start a similar new company pretty much any day in the game even if i don't have derelict ships without cutting into credits gathered by my personal ship doing missions or whatnot. Stationary buying and selling CLS ships with no shields or equipment (I refer to them as traps) are really cheap and they are the bulk of the fleet for any company I build.

Ultimately the fun of the game for me is using the companies I've built to manipulate the economy as a whole.

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Post by jjimlad » Mon, 18. Feb 13, 14:44

useful post Timsup2nothin, thank you.

Have you thought about adding a CLS flow picture to help everyone visualise what you are doing within each of your mini companies?

The concept and mgmt strategy is great btw; I think I will adopt this approach for my own trade games.

I pick up and drop off different game types quite regular to suit my mood and other than some notes in save game manager; picking up a matue trading game usually means a few hours establishing where I left off before I can begin to add to it! Without segragation or demarcation of trade type in my games it usually means I dont return to them as often as others.

Having autonmous setup, config, control maintenence and mgmt of the mini industry has the ability to break the unwieldy complexity of the larger game for me. Options to split by product, supply chain and mini industry like you have done is definiately worth trying I think.

again, many thanks,
Jim
There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare - Sun Tzu
He has obviously never played X !

Timsup2nothin
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Mon, 18. Feb 13, 18:25

jjimlad wrote:useful post Timsup2nothin, thank you.

Have you thought about adding a CLS flow picture to help everyone visualise what you are doing within each of your mini companies?

The concept and mgmt strategy is great btw; I think I will adopt this approach for my own trade games.

I pick up and drop off different game types quite regular to suit my mood and other than some notes in save game manager; picking up a matue trading game usually means a few hours establishing where I left off before I can begin to add to it! Without segragation or demarcation of trade type in my games it usually means I dont return to them as often as others.

Having autonmous setup, config, control maintenence and mgmt of the mini industry has the ability to break the unwieldy complexity of the larger game for me. Options to split by product, supply chain and mini industry like you have done is definiately worth trying I think.

again, many thanks,
Jim
People will notice the 'great lengths' I go to in the naming of ships. Thanks for illuminating why I do that. When I click on a company HQ 'owned ships' I can generally see exactly what the company was about and how it was intended to work...no matter how long it has been since I looked at it.

Could you expand on what you mean by a 'flow picture'? I'm not real savvy with charts and diagrams and forum posting them but I'm always willing to learn...and I know it would be good to break up the giant wall of text here.

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Post by jjimlad » Mon, 18. Feb 13, 22:24

Ship naming standards is already useful in all my games and an excellent recommendation for all players; grouping them into mini companies improves it further.

Regarding the picture, i meant something noddy, like the attached I knocked up in Open Office.

Obviously, if you start increasing the complexity of the supply chain, visualising what you are trying say becomes infinately more difficult to achieve. Adding this kind of pickie would certainly help me more.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/40 ... rcls2.jpg/

J.
There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare - Sun Tzu
He has obviously never played X !

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Post by jlehtone » Mon, 18. Feb 13, 22:54

:thumb_up:

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Post by Timsup2nothin » Mon, 18. Feb 13, 23:57

jjimlad wrote:Ship naming standards is already useful in all my games and an excellent recommendation for all players; grouping them into mini companies improves it further.

Regarding the picture, i meant something noddy, like the attached I knocked up in Open Office.

Obviously, if you start increasing the complexity of the supply chain, visualising what you are trying say becomes infinately more difficult to achieve. Adding this kind of pickie would certainly help me more.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/40 ... rcls2.jpg/

J.
I will work on it...soon so it can be simple. If I figure out how to do it now it won't be outside my scope when it gets complicated later. Open Office? I'll look that up.

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Post by Timsup2nothin » Thu, 21. Feb 13, 17:53

As requested, here are some images that should help visualize what is going on. Top one is the Ice side and bottom one is the water side. These charts are the system as originally set up. I'm just about through the next game day and will post an update soon.

Image
Image

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Post by Timsup2nothin » Thu, 21. Feb 13, 20:16

TGIWC Daily Report-Game Day 4

Additional investment by founder 500,000 credits (I wanted to make it an even 15 million)
Company funds invested in expansion 3.4 million credits
Founders dividend paid 1.5 million credits
End of day cash balance 2.2 million credits

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So the cash put into the HQ totals 800,000 credits, the initial 300,000 to get it running and 500,000 it didn't really need that I just put in for ease of accounting. Between founder's dividend and selling the company some equipment for their expansion I took out 4.9 million and the HQ has 2.2 million. The company has made about 6.3 million credits in one full day plus the partial day during the setup process. On a total investment of 15 million.

I point this out just to show that this is a worthwhile endeavor. It gives immediate returns that are comparable to building moderately profitable stations. It also offers on-going opportunities to reinvest profits in a manageable and profitable way (more on that next).
-----------------------------------------------------------

Reinvestment in expansion.

Our founder was promoted by the ATF early in the day and granted access to Mercury. About halfway through the day the Mercury sector was explored, and an additional water purifier was located.

Expansion to service additional purifiers was part of the original business plan, and should have been inexpensive. An ice delivery shed and a water supply tank were added to the purifier at the anticipated cost of 800,000 credits. The supply tank was added as a source to the Water Mars Distribution freighter as planned, along with water consumers in the Mercury sector.

However, due to the distance between Mercury and any ice production facilities it was impossible to just add the new ice delivery shed to an existing ice transfer route. To provide this service required installation of an ice transfer shed (capacity 9000, cost one million credits) at the HQ facility in Jupiter sector. This transfer shed was added to the route of the Jupiter Ice Transfer freighter. Another transfer shed (capacity 6000, cost 600,000 credits) was placed at the shipyard in Mars. For long term docking shipyards are a good option. A relay freighter moves ice as available from the HQ shed to the Mars relay shed (TGIWC Ice Relay Mars Alpha, Baldric, working capacity after shielding 3000, cost 500,000). A new ice transfer freighter (TGIWC Ice Transfer Mercury Alpha, Baldric, working capacity 3000, cost 500,000) was assigned to keep the Mercury delivery shed filled.

While extending service to this purifier was expensive at 3.8 million, it increases expected hourly profit by 14%. The ice relay tank system has sufficient capacity to supply two or three additional purifiers should more be located in the inner solar system, and the new ice transfer freighter can probably serve them, depending on location.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I skipped the gruesome details of how to set up the way points because it would get really repetitive. If anything isn't clear let me know.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

As a broader picture to put this in context, my personal activities on game day four besides supervising this expansion included doing one mission from the Terran plot, some exploration, some super-MORTing with my Mammoth, building my incidental CLS fleet (where trained pilots come from and steady profits as well) up to about fifteen ships, a lot of mission doing and just general flying around, occasional check ins to make sure the new company was running as expected...and planning out the next company.

Among my activities in the next game day will be founding the Sol's Light Bottling Company, which will eventually corner the energy transportation market shipping every e-cell used in Terran space at a profit of 5 credits per e-cell. I don't plan on detailing the construction of this company (unless asked), but eventually I'll demonstrate how the two companies interact. I'll also show how these and other companies, once they mature a little bit, can be used to manipulate the regional economy in ways that might be new and surprising to a lot of players.

Oh, and the ships used for the expansion other than the two Baldrics...I bought two of them used and real cheap, got one from a ship return gone awry, and capped one...so of the 3.4 million charged to TGIWC for the expansion some large part of it ended up in my ship account. Extra profitssss as my Teladi friends would say.

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Post by Kirlack » Thu, 21. Feb 13, 21:56

You sir, are a genius. I've considered this on a much smaller scale but never actually implemented it at all. I've always used my CLS pilots for taking care of the Hub, or stocking my HQ with resources...etc, but this take economical manipulation to a whole new level, for me anyway. I'll admit, it's taken me reading through your recent threads at least twice, but I think the idea has finally sunk in :D

If/when I get my gaming machine up and running again I shall certainly be giving this a try! :thumb_up:

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Post by Timsup2nothin » Thu, 21. Feb 13, 23:37

Wow. That was high praise from a lofty source.

I feel compelled to break the bad news now so you can contemplate it.

This type of CLS system strangles traders operating on AI. ALL of them. Including your own ST/UT traders.

Once it's in place it makes profits that make ST/UTs look like dime store knockoffs, but I figured you should know that it is not compatible with the more conventional approach to the game.

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Post by Kirlack » Fri, 22. Feb 13, 04:01

That makes sense. I think I'll start a new save for trying this anyway (it's not like I haven't had a dozen or so on the go at once ;) ), or I could just keep it one region, keep my Mk3s spread out in part of the universe and the CLS crews somewhere else. If I'm playing a trading game I always start as Humble Merchant anyway, so I can conquer the Argon Prime region with Mk3s and then move to PTNI HQ for the CLS experiment :D Oooh, I can't wait! :D

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