EnglishGermanFrenchRussianPolishItalianSpanish
Log inRegister
 
Station Building In X Rebirth.
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics. This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Oldman





Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 883 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sun, 2. Dec 12, 18:05    Post subject: Station Building In X Rebirth. Reply with quote Print

Hi! Smile

Quote Bernd:
Build platforms - Decide on a category

The first step in building a station is similar to what one would do in our previous games. You hire a large ship. This ship, however, does not contain the whole factory in a single large module anymore. Far from it.
This ship is a so-called 'builder platform'. It hosts a large amount of welder ships and works as a hub during the process of constructing your station.
When you buy a builder platform, you decide on the category of station you want to build. After you have decided on the place to start the new building, you can then land on the platform and discuss what station from that group you want to start building.
Unquote:

So!..Am I right in thinking that this 'Hub' is kinda like the foundations or the platform for the rest of the station build?
For Example:
You buy a certain 'category' of hub say for example a 'farm', now is this 'farm' a standard model for ANY type of farm or is it more specific say.. Thinking ...a cattle farm or vegetable farm?
Will I be able to produce wine (eventually) from a Grape Vine farm platform ? Smile

How intricate is this in reality, next question that poses itself to me is how many types of station/buildings can I construct using these 'Hubs' or 'platforms'.
Why exactly do I have to 'land' on these station platforms?....will I need a ships undercarriage type gear or is it going to be a kinda Luke Skywalker hover just above the surface type thing. Confused Very Happy
Who exactly do I have to discuss this station build with... Thinking ...what 'group'?

Any chance of having a sneak peek at a basic platform/hub type thingy? Laughing
edit...What I'm seeing/imagining here is (after you'e obtained this platform and positioned it) a square/oblong metal 'base' floating in space witjh maybe
a few, several or more 'drone' type welder ships milling around ready to start welding other bits or 'modules' on to it.

How do other forum readers 'imagine' what this 'building scenario feature' will look like in practice?

Oldman Smile

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wraith_Magus





Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 505 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sun, 2. Dec 12, 18:31    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Given the way it was talked about, with (paraphrasing) "choosing to build one type of module meaning that you can't build another" means that there will probably be a single root station platform with a tree type of ultimate goal.

I'm guessing it would follow a structure like having a choice of an arbitrary number of "upgrade" buttons on the station's controls, each with their own cost, and making an Argon station excludes making a Boron or other race one, and then upgrading to a farming station excludes making a mining station, etc. You further specialize up the tree with each station with each upgrade until you are locked on a certain branch.

I'm hoping that you only have to land the transports, and not yourself. This whole landing on things so that you can sit in the stupid rooms, personally, thing sounds like a really tedious idea when there's no reason not to use the talking head in the top right corner.

As for getting a sneak peak, when we aren't getting any further news about anything, why would this be the exception?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oldman





Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 883 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sun, 2. Dec 12, 18:58    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Wraith_Magus wrote:
..As for getting a sneak peak, when we aren't getting any further news about anything, why would this be the exception?


It was just a long shot Wink ...but my way of thinking is that this must be a 'basic' core/game element of the building process, we've seen some stations and other related graphics to do with this in the previous screen shots so.. *shrugs*. Smile
In short, we've seen more or less a 'completed' station/s, a few basic parts used in their construction wouldn't be giving the 'game away' I wouldn't have thought, still you're probably right in your statement above, I admit that, unfortunately. Sad
But as the saying goes...A picture is worth a thousand words. Smile

Oldman Smile

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geek





Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 8599 on topic
Location: Lave station, Lave (-3,-6)
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sun, 2. Dec 12, 19:31    Post subject: Re: Station Building In X Rebirth. Reply with quote Print

Oldman wrote:
Hi! Smile

For Example:
You buy a certain 'category' of hub say for example a 'farm', now is this 'farm' a standard model for ANY type of farm or is it more specific say.. Thinking ...a cattle farm or vegetable farm?
Will I be able to produce wine (eventually) from a Grape Vine farm platform ? Smile

I think it is going to be the generic kind - you buy a "bio" hub then choose if is a wheat farm or chelt aquarium.

Quote:

Why exactly do I have to 'land' on these station platforms?....

IIIRC Bernd mentioned hiring an architect, so you have to get him on board.

Moreover, chances are you still need to be IS to plan station building.


_________________


Right on commander !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jester6225





Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 60 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Sun, 2. Dec 12, 23:15    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

this is definately of interest but it seems there will be building trees and decisions to be made when designing stations, the restrictions of coures we won't lnow until we can actually see for ourselves, this from the interview :-

Bernd:
I think I already explained it – in the article on the Website. You have Build Trees on the one hand. This are pre-defined Plans – for Station Constructions -, which give you possibilities how you can expand Stations. That’s basically the tree which doesn’t exist for the Player Ship. But there are possibilities where you have to decide: may I build this or that. And do I Build A or B? And C can only be built if I had built B and D can only be built when I have A. Such dependencies are there. That is the big Level. That is the Level where I decide for big Parts of the Station. May I build one more big building Element? Do I expand the Food Production with a big Military Module – that are the big decisions.
And then there is the possibility of surface elements on the smaller Level – the features of this Station Element – of this big module to gradually improve. For example to build more Turrets or more Missile Launchers.
But this is not done individually. You cannot decide “I want to build this Missile Launcher and this Turret” but there is simply a Number, which is given, which is placed on this Asset. Where you know: this Module has fifty Turrets or so. And you say something like: I am buying 25 of them now. That’s how it works.
And there are of course all those Inner things, saying: what is the Station equipped with, how many Drones has it available to improve its performance? And other things you can expand.

So from this it seems to me that you choose the type for example, mine,farm,weapons, shields,energy, plus anything new, then (from the sticky) storage modules, refining modules and probably some way to produce end resources, but you choose the initial category.

It also seems you will have far more details, the max number of surface elements, the cost of them etc.

The whole process seems so much more involved and in the interview it said "you can" land on the station to make decisions but i am hoping you don't have to or if you do it is only for the first module. That is one thing that was annoying (without mod which i chose not to use) was having to fly back to the sector to place the station. Still have very hopes this will be a very good game though.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rabiator der II.





Joined: 14 Nov 2011
Posts: 873 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 3. Dec 12, 01:24    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Wraith_Magus wrote:
Given the way it was talked about, with (paraphrasing) "choosing to build one type of module meaning that you can't build another" means that there will probably be a single root station platform with a tree type of ultimate goal.

I'm guessing it would follow a structure like having a choice of an arbitrary number of "upgrade" buttons on the station's controls, each with their own cost, and making an Argon station excludes making a Boron or other race one, and then upgrading to a farming station excludes making a mining station, etc. You further specialize up the tree with each station with each upgrade until you are locked on a certain branch.

That is a plausible guess, based on what little we know so far (the only source for the tree type thing is the GamesCom interview, the relevant part quoted by jester6225). It also sounds like a step back from complexes in X³, in terms of what a single station can do.

So I guess we will get mostly specialized stations like in X², not multifunction hubs. But we will have more influence on the equipment of the station.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
santi



MEDALMEDALMEDAL

Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 2160 on topic
Location: UK
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Mon, 3. Dec 12, 01:48    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

According to this:

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=307412

Building of stations now have the same mechanics as building the Hub in X3, creating another layer to the process, you now have to start procuring or buying the raw materials, before deciding between modules and surface components, building a station is not anymore as simple as it was before. More and more, I have the impression that while, early game will be fairly easy because of the plot, when we finish it, we will face a spike on the difficulty level of the game.


_________________
A por ellos que son pocos y cobardes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wraith_Magus





Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 505 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Tue, 4. Dec 12, 01:10    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Honestly, I hope that the "upgrade" isn't just a bunch of micromanagement to do something that ultimately is nothing but a pre-package thing you have no control over.

I.E. there is one mining station type, you have no real control over anything, but you have to manually order every single mine to build shields and turrets and all sorts of other things for each station by hand with no actual choice in the matter and nothing besides a "upgrade this... now upgrade it again... now upgrade it again" micromanagement type of deal.

Really, "Upgrades" are awful ideas in games. In games like Supreme Commander, I remember one of the (deliberate) weaknesses of the Cybran faction was that, unlike the other two factions, you couldn't just build a Level 3 shield. You had to build a Level 1 shield, and then manually upgrade it, wait several minutes for the upgrade to finish, then upgrade it again... in a RTS where you have a hundred other things to worry about. Meanwhile, you can just set a dozen engineers to build a L3 Shield NOW for any of the other factions. Basically, Gas Powered Games knew enough to recognize that as a punishment for players who use the race with all the bells and whistles, not to call it a "benefit".

If this is another thing where individual upgrading of stations is nothing but adding micromanagement to the already flawed but at least functional system we had for making complexes do what we want in at least a reasonable period of time, especially after murdering all choice in what ship I can fly, I think it will be a final nail in the coffin for X:R for me.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geek





Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 8599 on topic
Location: Lave station, Lave (-3,-6)
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Tue, 4. Dec 12, 01:35    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Building is going to be more detailed, but I do not see micromanagement.
You set up plans, give orders to an architect, deliver or buy resources to build. Once building is finished, you can hire a station manager if you do not want to manage the station yourself.


_________________


Right on commander !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rabiator der II.





Joined: 14 Nov 2011
Posts: 873 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Tue, 4. Dec 12, 19:01    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I think there are possibilities for good and bad kinds of micromanagement in Rebirth.

If you have to manually place every turret on a station it would eventually start to suck. But I'd like the ability to do so if I find the default weapon choices not satisfying. And then save it to a template. Then tell my architect "oh, and please install weapons layout #5 on the new module" Very Happy.

One is annoying, the other is what makes sandbox games great...

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geek





Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 8599 on topic
Location: Lave station, Lave (-3,-6)
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Tue, 4. Dec 12, 19:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Building surface elements is abstracted.

Quote:
.
For example to build more Turrets or more Missile Launchers.
But this is not done individually. You cannot decide “I want to build this Missile Launcher and this Turret” but there is simply a Number, which is given, which is placed on this Asset. Where you know: this Module has fifty Turrets or so. And you say something like: I am buying 25 of them now.



_________________


Right on commander !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wraith_Magus





Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 505 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Tue, 4. Dec 12, 20:27    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

No, what I'm worried about is that it's going to be like equipping a ship is in X3. Each ship you buy has to be manually flown to different equipment docks to pick up all the fighting software, patrol software, jumpdrive, transfer device, etc. etc. etc. Not to mention the engine tunings and cargo upgrades that are basically flat mandatory.

It's stupid, boring, and routine, and while you hypothetically have a choice not to do it, you basically can't have a cap ship that doesn't have a jumpdrive and several other basic upgrades like engine tuning and expect it to be anything more than an over-glorified lasertower.

Or, to be even more extreme, the old game Majesty was basically built around having NPC knights and such that operate on their own AI, but where the player had to build towns where you were constantly just slapping "upgrade" buttons - markets were some of the worst, as they took something like 20 upgrades to reach full maturity, and you have to manually slap the "upgrade" button every time. If you forgot to slap the upgrade button, your whole economy suffered for it, and you might lose. Since you didn't control your soldiers, gameplay largely consisted of just remembering to slap all the different building's upgrade buttons.

This is what I'm worried about stations becoming - nothing but a routine where you have to constantly babysit the stations and slap their "upgrade" buttons to keep the whole thing from grinding to a halt. Each upgrade taking you waiting on the upgrade to finish, then coming back ASAP to punch the new upgrade button to keep the process going, or you'll have just wasted hours of time that you'll now have to wait on watching the "watch as the walls of your station are built in real time" feature that is nothing but an over-glorified progress bars filling up.

Worse, if we have to bring in all the supplies to build anything ourselves, then it may be replacing something simple, like "slap down a few million bucks, get full station," with what is basically the Goner fetch quests for every single station you construct. We can't just leave the Universal Traders to do their own thing while we do ours, we have to manually keep redirecting trading ships to carry all the freak tons of ore and other supplies to our construction projects.

One of the things I really wished we had in X3 was the ability to set a TS to say, "Go get whatever it is your home complex needs, and if that complex has full inventory for something it makes, go sell it, no matter how far you have to go to do so." without having to keep manually checking on if production stopped because nobody else is buying 414 wasp missiles.

It's all a matter of if Egosoft can learn how to intelligently automate routine micromanagement processes without forcing players into accepting something that is stupid and uncustomizable, like the Universal Traders that just looooved forgetting to buy more energy cells and going on trade routes that went through Xenon sectors. If we can say "this is the end result we want, upgrade up to this point automatically as soon as you have the materials to do so," and also have the ability to tell your traders to supply that station with whatever it needs without forcing you to manually look through the whole universe to find who still has microchips for sale, then I'll be content with this system. If not, Egosoft needs to learn the hard way that interface is everything.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)

MEDALMEDALMEDAL

Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 12950 on topic
Location: Stonehenge, UK
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Tue, 4. Dec 12, 20:33    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

@ Wraith_Magus: I am rather hoping that only initially you might have to do the shopping/travelling around to get all the resources you need for a building project. However, once you are able to afford it in terms of cash and/or rep, you can hire a building manager who will do pretty much what you outlined on your behalf without your interference.


_________________
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geek





Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 8599 on topic
Location: Lave station, Lave (-3,-6)
Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Tue, 4. Dec 12, 20:51    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Indeed, you get the choice between supplying directly the station or let the NPC do it. It is really like any factory in X3.
Quote:
At every step of the way you can (together with the NPC who operates this for you) decide whether you want to bring resources yourself or if you simply put up an offer to buy the resources from other traders



_________________


Right on commander !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wraith_Magus





Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 505 on topic

Thank you for registering your game
PostPosted: Tue, 4. Dec 12, 22:25    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The reason I wanted to have the chance to make a TS be the "personal freighter" of a complex was specifically because I don't like having to hope that my station will get supplied in time. In some cases, I can set my ore's price or wasp missile's price to their absolute minimum, and still nobody will buy any even when there are stations that will accept that product in the same sector, and only manual ordering of buying and selling will get product sold.

Besides which, even if we have a chance to just set what we pay for ore to max and get what we need relatively quickly, (which is far from guaranteed,) it doesn't speak to the concern that these building managers will actually upgrade the building in a reasonable manner without a need for manual interference. Even if supplies for an upgrade get purchased on their own after I hit and upgrade button, do I have to manually watch for when that upgrade is complete, if there are supply hiccups I have to solve manually, and if I have to push the next upgrade button myself, or if I can just say "keep upgrading to max".

Again, why put players through the trouble of having to build a basic station, then build a farm, then upgrade a wheat farm M, then upgrade that to an L, then upgrade that more so it has shields and defense towers? Even if it's anticlimactic, just being able to say you want a Wheat Farm L and getting that is at least efficient of the player's most precious resources: time and patience. It would be a mistake on Egosoft's part not to let players simply state what they want only once, and have the computer build up to that point on its own.

Also unanswered is the question of if the game will be too much like X3, and give you automation that has no customizability, and has serious frustrating side-effects, like Universal Traders. Ham-handed automation can be as bad as not having automation at all.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics. This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
Control Panel
Login Data
The time now is Tue, 21. Oct 14, 07:21

All times are GMT + 2 Hours


Board Security

Copyright © EGOSOFT 1989-2009
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Template created by Avatar & BurnIt!
Debug: page generation = 0.34897 seconds, sql queries = 74