Chris Roberts new project... Star Citizen

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segmentationfault
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Post by segmentationfault » Fri, 1. Dec 17, 13:35

muppetts wrote:Yes but CR says there has never been any feature creep, that everything in the game was planned from the start and would be started as soon as they had funds. FPS was never mentioned anywhere and feature creep has been the biggest project problem for the entire game.
I think FPS was included when they started to talk about boarding ~5M goal (and continued until $65M). At that point the pledging was continuing on their own website instead of Kickstarter.

FPS is just a one part of First Person game play. I have not done FPS a single time during my 3.0 PTU testing yet and could continue testing/playing so if I would like to.

Those who doesn't want to do FPS but still do boarding or investigate ships for items, information, etc. can hire others to do the job for them.

Len5
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Post by Len5 » Fri, 1. Dec 17, 15:04

If Chris had mentioned all his wishes at the beginning and there wouldn't be enough funds to add it to the game, people would've been complaining about that too.

I think there are too much resources spent on detail. Just look at some of the images of the guns or grenades or even a trash-can.

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Morkonan
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Post by Morkonan » Fri, 1. Dec 17, 18:56

Len5 wrote:...I think there are too much resources spent on detail. Just look at some of the images of the guns or grenades or even a trash-can.
If they've got the resources and the game-engine will support it without choking on its own verts, that sort of detail isn't really that difficult to manage.

Do you have some examples?

By the way, if they've got 50k vert trashcans and grenades, don't be so sure those will make it into the final product once optimization starts. Devs have been known to show really high-fidelity Beta footage and then end up releasing something with much less... fidelity.

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Post by Len5 » Fri, 1. Dec 17, 21:18

This is just a nade: https://starcitizen.tools/images/8/8d/M ... ons_02.png
Does a grenade in a game like SC need this much detail? I doubt it's been put together by one person in a half an hour. And it's been an even bigger waste of time if they put a simpler version of it in the game.
I'd rather have less detail and a sooner release of the game.

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Morkonan
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Post by Morkonan » Fri, 1. Dec 17, 21:39

Len5 wrote:This is just a nade: https://starcitizen.tools/images/8/8d/M ... ons_02.png
Does a grenade in a game like SC need this much detail? I doubt it's been put together by one person in a half an hour. And it's been an even bigger waste of time if they put a simpler version of it in the game.
I'd rather have less detail and a sooner release of the game.
There are key elements missing from that render that could tell me how "detailed" it really is. Though, it's obviously a decent amount of polys for what one might consider a "game resolution" model, which I don't think it really is. (I can't really look closely at it on this 'puter. I guess I could, but I don't think it necessary.)

However, keep in mind that high resolution models are used in game creation in order to render things like "normal maps", in outside apps, that can be applied to much lower resolution versions in-game, giving the low-res model the appearance of being much more highly detailed than it actually is in terms of its true geometry. Basically, there would be two versions, one which is the low-res in-game version and one that was used to produce a normal map, occusion map for baking in ambient occlusions, etc, and the like. Only the low-res version with these maps pasted on it, allowing the renderer to "fake" detail for us in real-time, would ever appear in-game.

For instance, once might see an absurdly hi-res "game character" being shown in someone's demo-real for their uber Z-Brush mad skillz... "Fifty-gazillionz polyz!" Then, that's used to render a normal map, giving the illusion of all that intricate geometry, and that map would then be applied to a "hi res" 10k poly in-game character figure. It'd look pretty cool, but if you looked very closely at it, especially the visible edges of the model, you could tell it was a much lower resolution than its initial appearance seems to show. (Kind of like a 2d image that "looks" 3d. We know its not really, really, really, "3d", but from certain angles, it looks like it is.)

Note: https://starcitizen.tools/Special:MyLan ... tar_Engine

Many of these improvements are aimed at giving the best band for their buck in terms of high-detail rendering in a live engine. I don't know much about the capabilities of these engines/techniques, but they're clearly being optimized for game rendering, giving them some real capabilities for "hands off" scene rendering/generation. (ie: They wouldn't have to produce fifty-eleven things for the same scene/view, letting the engine do all that work for them.) Some of the info there is frustratingly "red links" going nowhere, though. :(

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Chips
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Post by Chips » Sun, 3. Dec 17, 21:55

I should say, with all my posting, people may think I hate the guy or have an axe to grind.

My favourite game experience remains a Chris Roberts game (Freelancer). I loved that game. I can even remember joining my first ever group in my first ever multiplayer game, to do a trade run from Honshu to one of the planets in Liberty space - for profit. We got attacked by the NPC pirates and one or two died out of the group of 5 traders - because we sucked :D It was awesome. That's something happening ... 14 years ago. I still remember it fondly like yesterday.

I really do want this game to succeed, I really do want it to meet everyone's expectations, and I don't think it will be Freelancer 2 but hope it will grab me as if it were. But I also think criticism is valid and necessary. Without it, he'd have no tether whatsoever.

I'd hope to hear/see about the trade/explore/mine type aspects of the gameplay.

segmentationfault
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Post by segmentationfault » Mon, 4. Dec 17, 08:41

Chips wrote:I should say, with all my posting, people may think I hate the guy or have an axe to grind.
...
I really do want this game to succeed, I really do want it to meet everyone's expectations, and I don't think it will be Freelancer 2 but hope it will grab me as if it were. But I also think criticism is valid and necessary. Without it, he'd have no tether whatsoever.

I'd hope to hear/see about the trade/explore/mine type aspects of the gameplay.
At least I have not noticed any hate in your posts. I totally agree that feedback and constructive criticism is needed and that's what CIG constantly asks and fortunately gets as well. Their forum (Spectrum) has lots of feedback and discussion about bugs, various of current and upcoming features, etc. Well, of course not everyone is able to express their thoughts in a civilized manner so "feedback" including accusations without facts, cursing, etc. happens as well.

Mining is most likely of the first new professions they will add. I look forward what kind of implementation they will have even for first iteration which are simplified ones but hopefully it is still a bit more than just a mouse click. I have been flying with MISC Prospector in Alpha 3.0 PTU and it feels pretty nice small mining ship.

Mining

muppetts
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Post by muppetts » Mon, 4. Dec 17, 11:11

The thing is I did want Freelancer 2, i was not bothered if an older engine was used to build the game, I think X3 and X2 gave you the opportunity for allot of different types of dog fighting or fleet action with good looking ships, so it was possible for a freelancer with X3 looks.

Then I began to see the changes, we have all been so starved for more than the odd 1 or 2 devs to pump out reliable space games that everyone wanted a good IP and the money went crazy, I think that as much as CR's lack of control made things go spinning off course, I wish all he had got was 15 million and no more.

I knew it would take a while, I even figured 5 years but then Wingmans Hanger was scrapped and all the old people went, then the goals went crazy, then the features grew 100%. Back when the first modules came out I thought it was on target and I had fun with them but then came the tech porn, more and more and then he hires Gary Frikin Oldman and Andy Serkis, and Andy must be primo cost!

Anyway nothing ended up going where I thought it would and now even I, who was willing to extend loads good will, think this is another unfinished MMO scream fest, even if it gets launched I figure it will tank cos all the money was spent in advance and no one is willing to keep funding it.

However it does provide great lesson to the Next person who tries and maybe the collapse of this will do some good.
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Post by thrangar » Thu, 14. Dec 17, 02:46


muppetts
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Post by muppetts » Thu, 14. Dec 17, 09:50

Meh Crytek looking for a handout, doubt it will go anywhere, not like Crytek has the funds to fight this case anyway!
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segmentationfault
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Post by segmentationfault » Sat, 23. Dec 17, 14:30

CIG demoed some Squadron 42 gameplay yesterday in their special AtV episode. Here's a video which includes interesting comments how things are being done, what is still missing, etc.

Squadron 42: Pre-Alpha WIP Gameplay - Vertical Slice w/ Director's Commentary

I'm more interested in Star Citizen PU myself but Squadron 42 looks and sounds much better than I thought it would be. For example I like the sandbox elements so a player is able to make a decision how to accomplish the goals.

Idris looks impressive. A fully playable ship with with "living and breathing" 24/7 crew, etc. is pretty amazing. After seen the damage modelling before and the ship in a game gives pretty good idea how complex the ships are. Idris not even close the biggest ship they have.

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Post by Golden_Gonads » Sat, 23. Dec 17, 15:32

segmentationfault wrote:CIG demoed some Squadron 42 gameplay yesterday in their special AtV episode.
Did they give any kind of hint as to when it'll be released, seeing as thats what they said back in October they'd be announcing as part of this?

segmentationfault
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Post by segmentationfault » Sat, 23. Dec 17, 15:44

Golden_Gonads wrote:Did they give any kind of hint as to when it'll be released, seeing as thats what they said back in October they'd be announcing as part of this?
As far as I know they didn't say anything but it is possible I just missed that. If they said anything about it I hope it was "when it is ready" :)

Memnoch
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Post by Memnoch » Sat, 23. Dec 17, 18:14

Morkonan wrote:Devs have been known to show really high-fidelity Beta footage and then end up releasing something with much less... fidelity.
Yep, Ubisoft make a living out of it, in fact.
Golden_Gonads wrote:Did they give any kind of hint as to when it'll be released, seeing as thats what they said back in October they'd be announcing as part of this?
As with all things CIG, release dates are barely suggestions. 33rd of Juvember would do as good as anything. From what I have seen so far they probably won't even make that. :P

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Post by Golden_Gonads » Sat, 23. Dec 17, 22:26

segmentationfault wrote:As far as I know they didn't say anything but it is possible I just missed that. If they said anything about it I hope it was "when it is ready" :)
Fair enough. I just wondered if they live up to what they said - That they'd include a 'roadmap to completion' in this announcement/video. But nope.

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