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| Who do you think is on the right? Argon or terran |
| Terran |
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30% |
[ 23 ] |
| Argon |
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22% |
[ 17 ] |
| No one |
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23% |
[ 18 ] |
| Xenon |
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23% |
[ 18 ] |
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| Total Votes : 76 |
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Kirlack
Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 1707 on topic
Location: Archemedes Trading Corp. HQ, Spires of Elusion
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 Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 01:04 Post subject: |
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| Jumee wrote: |
| ehh, I don't really remember Terran trying to conquer CW, didn't they actually help Argon in war with Kha'ak? |
I'm using info in the X Encyclopedia to back up my arguments  But no, I don't seem to recall the Terrans helping in the war against the Khaak at all.
| shadowdef wrote: |
| Thats a fine line your walking. |
Oh, don't I know it Would I sacrifice the thousand to save the million? Yes, of course I would. I'm one of those people that would burn entire planets to save the rest of the species. It's not about 'right & wrong' on that scale, it's a question of survival.
Scale it back down, to say one person. If I had cancer, or a form of gangrene eating away at one of my limbs, would I cut it off? Of course, in a bid to survive the experience. Obviously the scale change means you have to think more about it, but the basic principle is still the same. You sacrifice something to save the whole.
| shadowdef wrote: |
| No one life is more valuable then another. I'm not saying you shouldnt defend your right to live your life the way you want to. But to kill so many innocent people is not the right way to go about it. |
On your former point I wholeheartedly agree, no one life is worth more than any other. But, from the Argon point of view, it was strike or be ruined. Against overwhelming odds what do you do?
_________________
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Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess - Oscar Wilde.
My DiD Stories: Peace(s) of Eight (Inactive) - Way of the Gun (Active)
An Illustrated Idiots Guide to CLS
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Jumee
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 2145 on topic
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 01:31 Post subject: |
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| Kirlack wrote: |
I'm using info in the X Encyclopedia to back up my arguments But no, I don't seem to recall the Terrans helping in the war against the Khaak at all. |
from X-encyclopedia:
"... and critical to the victory of the Argon Federation over the Khaak was the military support afforded by Earth through the United Space Command"
EDIT:
| Kirlack wrote: |
| I'm one of those people that would burn entire planets to save the rest of the species. It's not about 'right & wrong' on that scale, it's a question of survival |
Emperor be with you! Time for Exterminatus! 
no but seriously I agree
Last edited by Jumee on Tue, 24. Apr 12, 01:46; edited 1 time in total |
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Sturmer
Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 01:37 Post subject: |
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| Kirlack wrote: |
| Jumee wrote: |
| ehh, I don't really remember Terran trying to conquer CW, didn't they actually help Argon in war with Kha'ak? |
I'm using info in the X Encyclopedia to back up my arguments But no, I don't seem to recall the Terrans helping in the war against the Khaak at all.
| shadowdef wrote: |
| Thats a fine line your walking. |
Oh, don't I know it Would I sacrifice the thousand to save the million? Yes, of course I would. I'm one of those people that would burn entire planets to save the rest of the species. It's not about 'right & wrong' on that scale, it's a question of survival.
Scale it back down, to say one person. If I had cancer, or a form of gangrene eating away at one of my limbs, would I cut it off? Of course, in a bid to survive the experience. Obviously the scale change means you have to think more about it, but the basic principle is still the same. You sacrifice something to save the whole.
| shadowdef wrote: |
| No one life is more valuable then another. I'm not saying you shouldnt defend your right to live your life the way you want to. But to kill so many innocent people is not the right way to go about it. |
On your former point I wholeheartedly agree, no one life is worth more than any other. But, from the Argon point of view, it was strike or be ruined. Against overwhelming odds what do you do? |
+1
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Kirlack
Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 1707 on topic
Location: Archemedes Trading Corp. HQ, Spires of Elusion
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 01:50 Post subject: |
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| Jumee wrote: |
| Kirlack wrote: |
I'm using info in the X Encyclopedia to back up my arguments But no, I don't seem to recall the Terrans helping in the war against the Khaak at all. |
from X-encyclopedia:
"... and critical to the victory of the Argon Federation over the Khaak was the military support afforded by Earth through the United Space Command"
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Is that connected to Operation Final Fury (which is what I consider the 'war against the Khaak'), or is that from when Julian Brennan re-discovers Earth and the Khaak show up to ruin the party, which ends up with the USC getting involved in the battle?
_________________
Madder than a bastard on Fathers Day
Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess - Oscar Wilde.
My DiD Stories: Peace(s) of Eight (Inactive) - Way of the Gun (Active)
An Illustrated Idiots Guide to CLS
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Jumee
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 2145 on topic
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 01:54 Post subject: |
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| Kirlack wrote: |
Is that connected to Operation Final Fury (which is what I consider the 'war against the Khaak'), or is that from when Julian Brennan re-discovers Earth and the Khaak show up to ruin the party, which ends up with the USC getting involved in the battle? |
I have no idea, since I have only played AP and TC, and just read in X-cyclopedia that Terran helped Argon Federation
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windscar232
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 82 on topic
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 05:35 Post subject: |
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the terrans have no respect for human life, I say they had it coming to them! When I got Earth access in Terran Conflict, I died about four times before I could even figure out how not to die to that blasted ring of death, they kept saying go inbetween the lines or you will be destroyed, I really tried flying between two polls coming out of the station and was like what? I am between the lines, they then decided to kill this "joker"
to heavy of a penalty for something that could be resolved with a simple traffic ticket
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RoverTX
 
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
Posts: 424 on topic
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 06:03 Post subject: |
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The Terran's basically unleashed Skynet, and after finding out that they didn't really seal it away, instead of trying to help the other races and their Argon cousins they give them a big middle figure, tell them to stay out of their way, send 'scouting parties' into other peoples sectors with out permission and kill anyone who dares to even try to trade in their sectors with out the proper papers.
Its also pretty clear from the TC plot that the bad guys aren't the USC but the ATF which has become in a sense a defacto military dictatorship who controls access to earth and all its resources with an iron fist, to the determent of the rest of the terranes under USC jurisdiction.
Also If you notice earth pop in X3 is only about 2 billions, so its not an issue of over crowding, but rather of power and control. I am surprised there isn't a plot in AP where the USC tries to rebel against the ATF.
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Ravna
Joined: 27 May 2010
Location: /dev/null
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 06:36 Post subject: |
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War.
What is it good for ?
Absolutely nothing !
(Edwin Starr)
_________________
When in doubt, use brute force. |
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Kirlack
Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 1707 on topic
Location: Archemedes Trading Corp. HQ, Spires of Elusion
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 09:05 Post subject: |
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I consider the ATF to have a similar mindset to the American President at the end of Fallout 2. It's been a long, long time since I played it but he says something about the survivors of the holocaust like 'They're not even human anymore! Just degenerate mutants that need to be erased so we, the last real humans, can claim back the world'
I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the Terrans wanted to rid the universe of the Argon in a bid to preserve 'pure' humans, of Terran descent only.
_________________
Madder than a bastard on Fathers Day
Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess - Oscar Wilde.
My DiD Stories: Peace(s) of Eight (Inactive) - Way of the Gun (Active)
An Illustrated Idiots Guide to CLS
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Jumee
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 2145 on topic
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 10:26 Post subject: |
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^^^^ I think you are really mixing up X universe and Warhammer universe 
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Kirlack
Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 1707 on topic
Location: Archemedes Trading Corp. HQ, Spires of Elusion
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 12:07 Post subject: |
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| Jumee wrote: |
| ^^^^ I think you are really mixing up X universe and Warhammer universe |
Aww, nuts and there was me thinking I'd made a good argument to support my views 
No, seriously, I've not played Warhammer 40K since I was about 15...which is getting on for 20 years ago! Can you imagine if the Blood Angels and Ultramarines somehow wandered into the X Universe? I don't think even the ATF would stand a chance against them!
_________________
Madder than a bastard on Fathers Day
Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess - Oscar Wilde.
My DiD Stories: Peace(s) of Eight (Inactive) - Way of the Gun (Active)
An Illustrated Idiots Guide to CLS
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greypanther
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1059 on topic
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 12:52 Post subject: |
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Arrogant humans on both sides...
I voted for the Xenon, the only option really... to be sure nuke from orbit.
Now all we need is the Xenon and Khaak to see a common cause. 
( Both have a hive mind of sorts...sensible. )
_________________
The Cycle of Nations: “From bondage to spiritual faith. From spiritual faith to great courage. From courage to liberty. From liberty to abundance. From abundance to selfishness. From selfishness to complacency. From complacency to apathy. From apathy to dependency. From dependency back again into bondage.”
~ Henning Webb Prentis, Jr. |
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ConCorDian
Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Posts: 1521 on topic
Location: Kilmarnock, Scotland
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| Posted: Tue, 24. Apr 12, 12:54 Post subject: |
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| shadowdef wrote: |
Thats a fine line your walking. If you reduce human beings to mere numbers where does it end? Will you sacrifce the hundred to save the thousand? Will you Sacrifice the thousand to save the million?
I understand where your coming from but their has to be a point where we just say enough is enough. No one life is more valuable then another. I'm not saying you shouldnt defend your right to live your life the way you want to. But to kill so many innocent people is not the right way to go about it. The argon had other option open to them, they did not need to destory the torus.
Honestly i dont think Egosoft really gave this much thought, no matter how you try to paint it the argon come out looking bad and honestly i dont think that's fair to the argon. |
from a purely ethical point of veiw i agree with you, thing is if we look at ethics alone it actually doesn't work.
war has to be about the numbers, statistics and so on. if you have the decision to kill a thousand people to save 999 thousand or kill half a million to save half a million whats your decision? youd save the greater number, the lives lost are a terrible thing but unfortunatly its how things are in war....
ethics can cost more lives at times... look at the war in Iraq... American's and brittish went in and hundreds of thousands have died, also there is still no guarantee of stability in the country when we finally pull out due to the radically different beliefs over there. so hundreds of thousands could die again... under Sadam thousands died every year... he was an evil B.........d but if you go by morallity more have died.
im not saying i think we should have left him in charge, but i think there should have been far more thought put in before anything happened in order to offer a far greater chance of peace for them...
same applies here in the game, the Argon did what they had to in order to stand a chance.... the Argon have suffered more so than the Terrans at the hands of the Xenon/AGI over the years, but yet they used them against the Terrans, why? there was no other choice really. if they didn't the superior Terran tech with the numbers of them would overrun the Argon in no time... the use of AGI and the destruction of the Torus was the only way to create a fair fight, by reducing the Terran numbers....
end of the day its all cold unsympathetic numbers!!!
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The X-Plorer
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere Blowing up countless ships and finding goodies...
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| Posted: Wed, 25. Apr 12, 00:49 Post subject: |
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Time to weigh in...
I too have voted for the Xenon... 
Basically, the decay of relations between earth and the Argon Federation was really a rather poor path to take... The argon AND the Terrans are both HUMANS....
Jesus why do we still declare war on each other?! 
Hell what even happened to the Goner's opinion of this? shouldn't that have somehow helped to AVERT this madness?
The USC is not the enemy... It's the ATF... THATS why terran security is so tight. Personally I thought perhaps the Terrans should have merged with the argon federation... Even though that sounds far fetched... eventually the technologies and customs of both races would harmoniously merge.
AND ON TOP OF THAT, Julian Brennan was classified as a 'HUMAN' not an Argon. Im sure hes frowning up there...
And all the while the Xenon are able to evolve in hiding while we pointlessly fight each other... To a point where they could become so powerful that NEITHER side would be able to sustain a determined invasion.
What If the Xenon grow so strong to a point where they are MANY MANY times more numerous and powerful than the Kha'ak where when they attacked Omicron Lyrae and Presidents End?
Overall one of the two warring sides is SCREWED once the Xenon join the frey... They already have the devastating Xenon I... They're bound to start creating super ships if the war continues for long enough...
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The X-Universe is a big place, the X-Plorer is here to make it a little less perplexing...
| The X-plorer wrote: |
| "The Only thing we have to fear is... being afraid to open the door to new frontiers." |
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Max1045
Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 140 on topic
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Wed, 25. Apr 12, 02:43 Post subject: |
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| shadowdef wrote: |
If you are going to try and justify the killing of no doubt the millions of innocent lives lost in the bombing of the torus you might as well try to justify hiroshima and nagasaki. |
Are you implying that they WEREN'T justified?
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Have an idea you want to discuss?
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